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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Herbus]
    #6408825 - 12/29/06 08:12 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I will answer your inquiries from a Christian perspective. BTW, I would be considered an Old School, Particular Baptist, Predestination, Sovereign Gracer. I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy. I also consider Gnostics, Roman Catholics, Mormons, JW's, (I could go on..) to be false gospels, and those who hold to such doctrines as lost.


"If God loves me so much, how come he created diseases and despair...?"

A common misconception, that God loves everyone without exception. God only loves those who believe the gospel. And why do they believe? Because God Himself has taught them what the gospel is. The love of God to His elect precedes any good or bad actions they have done.


"Why are we supposed to believe in something yet given the free will to believe it is false...?"

Man's will is not free, it is bound by a fallen spiritual mind. God regenerates and translates His chosen people into the kingdom and makes them willing.


"What about dinosaurs, we know dinosaurs lived millions of years ago...?"

The universe was created as a complete and finished work. The age of the creation can be deducted from the genealogies given in scripture from Adam.


"Why would God, omniscient, omnipotent, CREATOR-OF-EVERYTHING construct such a silly succession of events which have been detailed to have occured, and to occur, in the Bible.
Basically, God knows everything, he knew exactly what was going to happen when he created Satan. So what, God thinks, and creates him anyways? Is that what happened?
He also created Siddhartha Gautama (sp.), Mohammed, and countless other religious figures (supposedly), knowing damn well that their ideas would go on to collect a legion of followers who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (yeah, they're un-saved.) Furthermore, he continously creates individuals whom he knows will follow these "heretic" religions and thus be sent to Hell.
This population figure, of peoples destined for Hell, is easily in the billions; arguably constituting a greater representation of people than that of the "saved."
And if God didn't create the "heretic religions," Satan did and God made Satan... knowingly.
Therefor, according to the "Good Book," every generation, God is creating people for the simple purpose of subjecting them to the damnation of Hell. That is, after they experience the trials of life...
Knowingly."


You are correct, everything happens according to God's will and purpose. In fact nothing happens by God's mere observance of events, but He actively causes all events to come to pass according to His purpose. This includes the salvation and damnation of sinners. The doctrine of predestination is all over scripture. He sends the reprobate (those never elected to salvation) many false teachers that they may believe lies.


"I have yet to meet the pious individual with the answer, therefor, I have attempted to conclude on some answers myself, to offer the bewildered individual.

1. Christianity is right, yet overlooking... God sure did make man in "his image," an image prone to emotional outbreaks and uncomprehensible behavior, who gets damned pissed at people he created to dismiss him, and then laughingly sends them to Hell."

Man was made in His image. But the Fall in Adam caused all to inherit spiritual deadness, and physical deadness as well. Fallen man does not seek God, they create gods that suit what they want from "God". They are idolaters.


"I like to picture the Christian God as like the "troubled son" of the "true God," who went off and created his own little worship-me-or-torture scheme of personal gratification. He has some obvious control issues, which is to be expected from the offspring of the Great Divine Thing. He displays his psychological abnormalities in the little 'sacrificial son for salvation' paradigm."

You say such things because you do not know who He is, so you have come to many wrong conclusions about His attributes. Salvation is to know who God is.


"2. OR...
You can examine the possibility that God, not your pastor, instilled within you the ability to observe, even at times making observation a pleasurable thing to do...
And think that perhaps God wants you to use this ability, what a wonderful ability, and quit relying on previous observations, also made by humans, which occured 2,000 years ago.
That's silly.
When you want to visit relatives in another town do you walk there, or ride a camel/horse acquired through marriage?
No.
Even if you don't have transportation, unless you're specifically taking a stance against modern transportation, you'll hitch-hike.
If you contract a deadly disease, who are you more likely to want help from, an old man in a dark room with his various herbal concoctions and remedies, or a trained doctor who went through 8+ years of medical school?
In the world that God made, if you haven't observed, things tend to gradually change..."


I don't know what you are getting at, but it sounds like you are saying that scripture is no longer relevant to today. Scripture (the 66 books) is God breathed, infallible, inerrant, and complete. Once a person is converted they know this to be true.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6408856 - 12/29/06 08:24 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
A common misconception, that God loves everyone without exception. God only loves those who believe the gospel. And why do they believe? Because God Himself has taught them what the gospel is. The love of God to His elect precedes any good or bad actions they have done.




If the definition of "Christian" is a person who adheres to the teachings of Jesus Christ then you shouldn't claim to be one. Why? Jesus actually said to love your enemies a la Father, and that contradicts the heart of your above claim.
Just an observation.


"If Hell is real and universalism is a heresy, why is it that those who believe God loves all and will save all find it easier to love all people than those who believe most people are going to Hell? (Think this through very carefully.)"

With God all things are possible
God wishes that not one is lost
God will reconcile all things to him
God will be all in all


You are in sharp disagreement with God, 5points.

I also suggest you check the site in my sig.


Edited by Disco Cat (12/29/06 08:38 PM)


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6408899 - 12/29/06 08:52 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:

"If Hell is real and universalism is a heresy, why is it that those who believe God loves all and will save all find it easier to love all people than those who believe most people are going to Hell? (Think this through very carefully.)"




I neglected to add Universalists and Annihilationists my list of damnable heresies.

"I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy. I also consider Gnostics, Roman Catholics, Mormons, JW's, Universalists and Annihilationists (I could go on..) to be false gospels, and those who hold to such doctrines lost souls." Now that is more correct.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6409849 - 12/30/06 05:21 AM (15 years, 29 days ago)

...Said the lost soul  :laugh:


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OfflineChemiker
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6409890 - 12/30/06 06:05 AM (15 years, 29 days ago)

fivepointer said:
I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy.


Why?

Even though I can't demonstrate that free will exists, I do believe that a concept of free will has a positive impact on the world. Basically, by telling people that they will be held responsible for their actions, this inhibits objectionable behaviour. If we didn't have a concept of free will and as a result, didn't hold people accountable for criminal acts, then we would be lacking a deterrent.

"If God loves me so much, how come he created diseases and despair...?"

Once, while wasted on a dissociative, I phoned a crystal call-in TV channel hosting a late night religious discussion. I did this in order to amuse my sister and her boyfriend, but intended to try having a serious discussion. One of the first things I said was something like, ". . . and God creates evil."

Man oh man, they interrupted me right there, "Excuse me, but God does not create evil." They hung up on me then and there.

Had I had a chance to respond, I would have said, "But God created everything, didn't he? Therefore he also created evil."

I think you have to realize the futility of your argument as I realize the futility of my own. God works in mysterious ways, so just because you can't see the positive impact of disease and despair doesn't mean that these things aren't ultimately good in the long run. It's a matter of faith, since these people can't demonstrate to you that what you believe is bad is actually good.

A common misconception, that God loves everyone without exception.

Personally, I'm hoping that if there is some great supernatural entity watching over everything that it will love people who think for themselves instead of those who blindly accept doctrine.

"Why are we supposed to believe in something yet given the free will to believe it is false...?"

Test of faith.

Man's will is not free, it is bound by a fallen spiritual mind. God regenerates and translates His chosen people into the kingdom and makes them willing.

Huh?

The universe was created as a complete and finished work. The age of the creation can be deducted from the genealogies given in scripture from Adam.

All of the physical evidence suggests that the universe is more than the 6000 years or so that the bible says it is, but yeah, some supernatural entity could have simply created the evidence to look that way. We can't definitively prove that dinosaurs did live millions of years ago, but I'd call you an idiot if you claimed otherwise.

1. Christianity is right

Balls, I say.

Man was made in His image.

And women were made according to my sexual desires.

Once a person is converted they know this to be true.

Knowing and having faith are two different things.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Chemiker]
    #6410093 - 12/30/06 11:04 AM (15 years, 29 days ago)

fivepointer said:
I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy.


"Why?
Even though I can't demonstrate that free will exists, I do believe that a concept of free will has a positive impact on the world. Basically, by telling people that they will be held responsible for their actions, this inhibits objectionable behaviour. If we didn't have a concept of free will and as a result, didn't hold people accountable for criminal acts, then we would be lacking a deterrent."


Man from Adam is born in a state of spiritual deadness, in bondage to sin and Satan. His will is "free" only in the sense that he is "free" to do what his nature desires, which is wickedness, especially when it comes to spiritual truths. The gospel is not about having rules so people can be kept in line, it is about the grace, righteousness, and judgment of God.


"If God loves me so much, how come he created diseases and despair...?"
"Once, while wasted on a dissociative, I phoned a crystal call-in TV channel hosting a late night religious discussion. I did this in order to amuse my sister and her boyfriend, but intended to try having a serious discussion. One of the first things I said was something like, ". . . and God creates evil."
Man oh man, they interrupted me right there, "Excuse me, but God does not create evil." They hung up on me then and there.
Had I had a chance to respond, I would have said, "But God created everything, didn't he? Therefore he also created evil."
I think you have to realize the futility of your argument as I realize the futility of my own. God works in mysterious ways, so just because you can't see the positive impact of disease and despair doesn't mean that these things aren't ultimately good in the long run. It's a matter of faith, since these people can't demonstrate to you that what you believe is bad is actually good."


You derive doctrine from what sounds reasonable to your mind and not from the Word. Do not set aside what God has said in His Word. Are you smarter than God?

A common misconception, that God loves everyone without exception.
"Personally, I'm hoping that if there is some great supernatural entity watching over everything that it will love people who think for themselves instead of those who blindly accept doctrine."

"I'm hoping that if" - A a statement of agnosticism. If you believed you would KNOW. God teaches His people what the gospel is, and this includes doctrine. Doctrine is proof that God loves a person. It does not cause love, it evidences love. God loves doctrine, doctrine is truth, it reveals who God is and is not. Forces of darkness always hate doctrine.

"Why are we supposed to believe in something yet given the free will to believe it is false...?"
"Test of faith."

Faith is a gift of God, salvation is not a test.

Man's will is not free, it is bound by a fallen spiritual mind. God regenerates and translates His chosen people into the kingdom and makes them willing.
"Huh?"

This concept is a mystery to you since you have never been born again.

The universe was created as a complete and finished work. The age of the creation can be deducted from the genealogies given in scripture from Adam.
"All of the physical evidence suggests that the universe is more than the 6000 years or so that the bible says it is, but yeah, some supernatural entity could have simply created the evidence to look that way. We can't definitively prove that dinosaurs did live millions of years ago, but I'd call you an idiot if you claimed otherwise."

Actually it is probably more like 13,000 years old, certainly not millions. I guess Im an idiot since I believe the Word of God, which is always true, to be true.

1. Christianity is right
"Balls, I say."

I hope you may be brought to see your a ruined wretched sinner in need of a Redeemer. Only God can make this happen.

Man was made in His image.
"And women were made according to my sexual desires."

These are spiritual concepts, something that apparently has no value to you, since you make a flippent statement.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Chemiker]
    #6410221 - 12/30/06 12:22 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

Keep this in mind before trying to engage someone like fivepointer in discussion.


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6410321 - 12/30/06 01:18 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

If all would be preselected, why then should one consider life as a 'testing' stage against evil ?
You seem to hold both views as true, but how do they fit together ?
If life is some testing stage in some sort, then that what is tested can not be finally preselected. That is simple logic.

Conclusively , if one thinks one is preselected*, one thinks the goal will justify the means. That is an erroneous assumption, as it is only true vice versa; the means will ever and ever, justify the goal, no way round, not in the most far future, not in the past.

Ignorance is diversion and separation is ignorance. For some it might be bliss, for some it's the opposite of awareness.

The old and justified Gods in Mumuland are laughing in eternity (while G*D cries) about those silly traps, even the strongest believers dig for themselves.

The wish for believe has tainted their believe itself.

*preselected ? Additionally...How ? By learning about Jesus in our lifetime and acknowledge the gospels ? Only that what stands behind the gospels can be that what can be in resonance perhaps with something 'preselected' in us.
That is, what separates the will.

- BC out -
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Silversoul]
    #6410335 - 12/30/06 01:31 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
"By their fruits ye shall know them."

Keep this in mind before trying to engage someone like fivepointer in discussion.




'HATE, HATE for God's sake!' 'We're jest a White Fraternal Christian organization. We wear the symbol of a drop of Christ's blood over our heart - one drop representing the Five Points where He was pierced. Now we're in-fil-tratin' a damned hippy heretic site called The Shrooomery, S**t-damn and Hell's Bells, if we can't join 'em, we're a-goin' to beat 'em down with our par-ticular brand o Christ-inanity ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/inanity )


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6410352 - 12/30/06 01:45 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

I hope you may be brought to see your a ruined wretched sinner in need of a Redeemer.

fivepointer, personalisms are against the rules of this forum.

Please don't do it again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6410651 - 12/30/06 03:59 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
If all would be preselected, why then should one consider life as a 'testing' stage against evil ?
You seem to hold both views as true, but how do they fit together ?
If life is some testing stage in some sort, then that what is tested can not be finally preselected. That is simple logic.

Conclusively , if one thinks one is preselected*, one thinks the goal will justify the means. That is an erroneous assumption, as it is only true vice versa; the means will ever and ever, justify the goal, no way round, not in the most far future, not in the past.

Ignorance is diversion and separation is ignorance. For some it might be bliss, for some it's the opposite of awareness.

The old and justified Gods in Mumuland are laughing in eternity (while G*D cries) about those silly traps, even the strongest believers dig for themselves.

The wish for believe has tainted their believe itself.

*preselected ? Additionally...How ? By learning about Jesus in our lifetime and acknowledge the gospels ? Only that what stands behind the gospels can be that what can be in resonance perhaps with something 'preselected' in us.
That is, what separates the will.

- BC out -
:heart:




All are NOT preselected.  The second question is - upon what basis is the preselction made?  Election is made prior to any acts of good or evil, it is based soley on the good pleasure of God alone.  It is not based on God looking down a tunnel of time and foreseeing the actions of a person, and then electing a person based on those actions.  Unconditional election cuts out any reason to boast, since people are not chosen because they have performed some deed or are more pious than another person.  God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.  The only boast is in the cross of Christ, this is the sole reason a sinner is saved.  Unconditional election frustrates men who think they have some clout that can merit grace.  It is a most despised doctrine of the unregenerate.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6410673 - 12/30/06 04:08 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
"By their fruits ye shall know them."

Keep this in mind before trying to engage someone like fivepointer in discussion.




'HATE, HATE for God's sake!' 'We're jest a White Fraternal Christian organization. We wear the symbol of a drop of Christ's blood over our heart - one drop representing the Five Points where He was pierced. Now we're in-fil-tratin' a damned hippy heretic site called The Shrooomery, S**t-damn and Hell's Bells, if we can't join 'em, we're a-goin' to beat 'em down with our par-ticular brand o Christ-inanity ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/inanity )




Some people resort to implied slander attacks when they have no truth.
The name "fivepointer" does not refer to some racist organization. The five points of sovereign grace 1 - Total Depravity 2 - Unconditional Election 3 - Particular Atonement 4 - Irresistable Grace 5 - Once saved always saved.

To show a burning cross is openly insulting and slanderous to another poster.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Diploid]
    #6410686 - 12/30/06 04:12 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I hope you may be brought to see your a ruined wretched sinner in need of a Redeemer.

fivepointer, personalisms are against the rules of this forum.

Please don't do it again.




Any person who is converted must be brought into conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit. This is not a personal statement against another poster. It is a general truth that before a person is saved they are quickened by the Spirit to see that all their best works are filthy rages and they are devoid of all righteousness when compared to the righteousness that God demands. Only sinners get saved, but they must first be brought to see their sinnership, only then can the gospel shine into the heart.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Herbus]
    #6410750 - 12/30/06 04:38 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Herbus said:
Hi.


Recently, seems like a lot of Christianity is presented to me.


I have disagreed with Christianity for quite some time, having never fully "accepted" it and not taking my "acceptance" of Jesus or whatever seriously.

Well, yeah, you know how Christians are though, especially if they're your relatives. Now there are a lot of people like me, and we often can only take several minutes; several difficultly restrained minutes of silence. After that, we have to unleash our brand of "comprehension," the whole "this is how I think things work" theory, something that within some individuals (myself included) contains little bits of "logic" and factual evidence proven by science.

There are many good questions, little things within the religion that do not make sense, just as little bits of unknown info pertaining to the theory of evolution do not fully make sense.

"If God loves me so much, how come he created diseases and despair...?"

"Why are we supposed to believe in something yet given the free will to believe it is false...?"

"What about dinosaurs, we know dinosaurs lived millions of years ago...?"


To all of these questions, some Christian has devised some form of an "answer," even if it be something so simple as "anything not stated in the Bible is clearly the blasphemous work of the devil."


Well... I have found the question, as many of you may have.

I really do not see how others could not have come to this same inquiry.

Involving the ENTIRE IDEOLOGY... and BIG PICTURE... - I do for surely know this has been said, albeit differently worded...


Assuming everything in the Bible is correct, word-for-word, one must still ask this:


Why would God, omniscient, omnipotent, CREATOR-OF-EVERYTHING construct such a silly succession of events which have been detailed to have occured, and to occur, in the Bible.

Basically, God knows everything, he knew exactly what was going to happen when he created Satan. So what, God thinks, and creates him anyways? Is that what happened?

He also created Siddhartha Gautama (sp.), Mohammed, and countless other religious figures (supposedly), knowing damn well that their ideas would go on to collect a legion of followers who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (yeah, they're un-saved.) Furthermore, he continously creates individuals whom he knows will follow these "heretic" religions and thus be sent to Hell.

This population figure, of peoples destined for Hell, is easily in the billions; arguably constituting a greater representation of people than that of the "saved."

And if God didn't create the "heretic religions," Satan did and God made Satan... knowingly.

Therefor, according to the "Good Book," every generation, God is creating people for the simple purpose of subjecting them to the damnation of Hell. That is, after they experience the trials of life...

Knowingly.



I have yet to meet the pious individual with the answer, therefor, I have attempted to conclude on some answers myself, to offer the bewildered individual.


1. Christianity is right, yet overlooking... God sure did make man in "his image," an image prone to emotional outbreaks and uncomprehensible behavior, who gets damned pissed at people he created to dismiss him, and then laughingly sends them to Hell.

I like to picture the Christian God as like the "troubled son" of the "true God," who went off and created his own little worship-me-or-torture scheme of personal gratification. He has some obvious control issues, which is to be expected from the offspring of the Great Divine Thing. He displays his psychological abnormalities in the little 'sacrificial son for salvation' paradigm.

Obviously, the Christian God just needs a little love from his Father.

2. OR...

You can examine the possibility that God, not your pastor, instilled within you the ability to observe, even at times making observation a pleasurable thing to do...

And think that perhaps God wants you to use this ability, what a wonderful ability, and quit relying on previous observations, also made by humans, which occured 2,000 years ago.

That's silly.

When you want to visit relatives in another town do you walk there, or ride a camel/horse acquired through marriage?

No.

Even if you don't have transportation, unless you're specifically taking a stance against modern transportation, you'll hitch-hike.

If you contract a deadly disease, who are you more likely to want help from, an old man in a dark room with his various herbal concoctions and remedies, or a trained doctor who went through 8+ years of medical school?

In the world that God made, if you haven't observed, things tend to gradually change...


I would like some Christians to respond with their opinions, thank you.

No reason to be offended.




The universe is different than how the Christians may have viewed it 2000 yrs ago.

Most people had a different conception of the universe and still do. They think of the universe as 3 dimensional grid, when actually space time is created as result of energy and so is ever expansive as long as matter and life reach those limits. Space is infinitum as long as time is eternal.

Any universe that grows and expands such as solar systems, galaxies, galaxy clusters, also expands reality based on the life forms intellectual ability transcending reality, that exist in this universe.

Our knowledge and perception is not the only intelligence out in the universe. There are many worlds out there that affect reality, even a cluster can have its unique energy and as a result effect this ever expansive and diversified reality, the reason I think this is important, is that reality has no absolutes excepts those in a relative sense, worlds were created flawed, even as humans we have flawed sensory perceptive abilities so basically all human fabricated concept is incomplete because our worlds needed room for other competing worlds. The human constituent will soon be obsolete to higher spiritual constituent that will rely on human constituent as the human constituent relied on the molecular constituents of the earth, what they represent was transcended into human belief as energy evolves. That is why skepticism of any absolute system will clash with those of worlds that exist in reality, because reality is a relative abstraction that is constantly being formed and evolved through space and time.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: capliberty]
    #6410778 - 12/30/06 04:49 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

the dogmatic posters are very lengthy
or brief to the point of snarkasm

I still did not get to read the big christian question, because if it has been posted here it is encased in something else.

can it be phrased briefly like a bumper sticker or do we need to wade through drivel to find the point?


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: capliberty]
    #6410792 - 12/30/06 04:57 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

What do you think is on the very edge of all the universe? What about at the very center? Maybe there's the most energy concentrated at the center, and to be there would be infinitely more amazing then where we're at, and maybe energy is the thinnest on the outskirts.

Time being eternal? I don't see a time. I see one moment in which energy is in constant motion, but that it is the same energy as was 100,000,000,000 years ago, and therefore it's not an issue of time as there is no that time vs this time, because the energy (which is the foundation of it all) that defines all that is in a time is constant. The same energy is still here, in whatever assorment, existing no more or no less.
Then again, I have a suspicion that energy may be ever increasing.

Energy's not something I've studied, but something I want more of, MORE!!! Good energy only.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6410913 - 12/30/06 05:57 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

Whatever do you mean? I never called you anything directly, but the hackles of your untreated and very obvious paranoia clearly were raised, and in the process, more idiosyncrasies of your "Unconditional Election" by Very God to be an infallible disciple of dogmatism were revealed. Your pontifications about what is true (i.e., Truth) and what is false (e.g., "damnable heresies") are nothing less than abhorrent. I can no less ignore some of the gross condemnations that spew forth from you than I could ignore the brutal
treatment of a puppy. This is the nature of religious polemic, and it is usually as foul as the stink from a polecat.

This a forum for the free dissemination of ideas about spiritual verities. In that, it is like the discussions that early disciples of The Way held before their faith was forced into the Procrustean bed of doctrine and dogma, the disagreement with which would result in unspeakable torture and death. TO EACH HIS/HER OWN in a free world. Judgement is not the job of a Christ - the aspired to goal of a true Christian. Judgement is to be perfectly balanced by Mercy, and that balance amounts to active Compassion - detached altruism if you will - not passionate condemnation.

You are neither more learned in theological matters than others who post here (including myself) and neither is there any indication that ANY of 'the fruits of the spirit' are transmitted by your words. I cannot see how obsession with one's own "Total Depravity," projected onto others is going to facilitate anyone's spiritual growth and development - your's included. This is not how one commences with psychotherapy, and this is not how one commences with pneumatherapy (a word of my own making). Obsession is not indicative of steadfast faith. Faith is a living growing condition not a rigid adherence to dogma and doctrines which must develop as well. You have selected certain intellectual idols to worship and that is your choice. Meanwhile, a mean-spirited judge is NOT any way of being that attracts emulation by anyone with ANY joy at all at heart.

I strongly urge you to consider evaluations of your words by professional individuals who do NOT belong to your 'faith community' and with their guidance take some time to reflect upon your true motivations for relating to people in this kind of 'faith community' in the manner in which you do. [For those over-reactive individuals at the S&P, I am NOT speaking for you. I am speaking for myself as a member, and for anyone else who chooses to stand alongside me on this matter].

- Mark[ostheGnostic]


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6411285 - 12/30/06 09:01 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

I'm waiting for an apology for your slanderous and insulting posting.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6411327 - 12/30/06 09:16 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

I'm terribly sorry that you hate everyone who doesn't share your par-ticular point of view. Really...I am. The rest was all speculation. I still think that you need assistance however because many people are being subjected to far worse from you, than you are from me.

This just in!: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8201543200186623482



Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/30/06 09:25 PM)


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6411353 - 12/30/06 09:24 PM (15 years, 29 days ago)

sorry, i didn't read all this, only the first part of the first post but

what can trusting in jesus do for me, right now?

how exactly do i trust jesus?

what is the fruit of trusting in jesus? i.e. what is the point of trusting in jesus?


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