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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: sleepy]
    #6411368 - 12/30/06 09:29 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

drivel and fighting
mythic only in its proportions.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6411385 - 12/30/06 09:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm terribly sorry that you hate everyone who doesn't share your par-ticular point of view. Really...I am. The rest was all speculation. I still think that you need assistance however because many people are being subjected to far worse from you, than you are from me.

This just in!: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8201543200186623482






Why do you insist on misrepresenting me? I do not hate everyone who does not share the same views, you have made an intentional false representation of me. The truth must be proclaimed, these with ears will hear, the others will not. I have no mal intent when I proclaim doctrine. The gospel sets those who believe it free, it is a great thing.

Now I demand an apology for your first insulting and slanderous posting, as well as this latest attempt at slander of my character.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: sleepy]
    #6411395 - 12/30/06 09:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Since you're asking me, I will reply that my life changed radically after I decided that Jesus was THE model for Human Development. Note that I am trained in Human Development, and that for this response I am intentionally not speaking in a term such as 'Savior.' Jesus is my spiritual Master however, and the word Christ applies not only to a spiritual title (meaning 'anointed' in Greek, but also meaning Illumined or Enlightened more specifically).

I became a Christian inasmuch as all of my inner and outer being is 'governed' by Compassion. In the words of the medieval mystic Meister Eckhart: "You may call God love, you may call God goodness. But the best name for God is Compassion."
Now, is Compassion to be found in Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and elsewhere? Absolutely. But for me, the adherence to Jesus the Christ in His Teachings as well as in the openness to the Logos - the Immanence of God - has shown me The Way (to Be). I made my experiments in Truth, and I found the most complete form for me in Christ. This is my witness to you. I have learned fine things from other faiths, and those things have only enriched my life as a Christian. I was Jewish from birth, so I am a Jewish Christian. I have been blessed with certain Experiences which are the substance of the words, and so, I consider myself a Gnostic Christian. This is as straightfoward as I can be, but I've never regretted my decision depite the resultant alienation from family and shallow friends. I want the Truth. I want to KNOW what is pre-eminently REAL.

+++Peace+++

-MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6411594 - 12/30/06 10:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:


Time being eternal? I don't see a time. I see one moment in which energy is in constant motion, but that it is the same energy as was 100,000,000,000 years ago, and therefore it's not an issue of time as there is no that time vs this time, because the energy (which is the foundation of it all) that defines all that is in a time is constant. The same energy is still here, in whatever assortment, existing no more or no less.
Then again, I have a suspicion that energy may be ever increasing.

Energy's not something I've studied, but something I want more of, MORE!!! Good energy only.




Energy is a constant, but what isn't constant is in what form change or motion occurs, when referring to life forms, or biological or chemical processes in general, that kinetic energy is defined by motion, which is defined by one point in space to that of another point in space, the stage in which these points are shifted are the distinct patterns in which we can relate, understand and manipulate objects, this is how time becomes its own distinct concept with distinct parameters. Time doesn't have any inherent essence or property, it is only measured abstraction of recognition of common patterns

Our life cycle axis to that of any other phenomenon on any other axis whether its on microcosmic atomic axis or the macro-cosmic solar axis, whatever abstraction you want referring to stages of development your defining that common axis in which that stage is interrelated giving time certain inherited properties within its own life cycle. Meaning after a certain stage of chemical process I'll eventually grow old and decay like a plant giving me only a duration of time that I hold personal significance towards, but yeah other than that time isn't really a entity other than its interrelation dependence of objects defined by an absolute system which life is an absolute system on a biological level.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6412171 - 12/31/06 01:00 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

That's your whole inflated problem fivepointer. You make demands, proclamations, pontifications, and pronouncements of anathema. I apologize to others here on your behalf because you are clearly incapable of catching the slightest-reality-based clue. Your character and the words you use speak for themselves. I have done nothing more than satirize in the attempt to take the edge off your sharp condemnations. You have NO sense of humor and take yourself too seriously. Lose the self-importance since humility does not make demands because you're merely continuing to make my point about fivepointer. Take yourself to the wilderness and shout at the devil. Since you don't believe in free will, you'll have to aquiesce to predestination. Those who are saved, are saved and those who are not saved are not saved. In either case, your presence is superfluous at best and downright insulting and annoying at most. As my Mom used to say when I was obnoxious: "Go bang your head against a wall."


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6412284 - 12/31/06 01:32 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The gospel sets those who believe it free, it is a great thing.




IME, believing in something that sets me free (ie, believing that I'm free) ends as the belief itself ends.

That is, if I believe that something will set me free, I'm essentially believing that a belief will free me (what I have to be set free from I still am ignorant of even as you read this). Yet if I one day simply stop believing that a belief can free me, then I am no longer 'free'.

To me, that is not how I conceptualize true freedom. True freedom to me doesn't require a belief in anything or even in 'true freedom' itself in order to be.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6412293 - 12/31/06 01:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I have been blessed with certain Experiences which are the substance of the words, and so, I consider myself a Gnostic Christian.




When I read this, I became curious who the Experiencer of these Experiences was?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6412915 - 12/31/06 10:53 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
That's your whole inflated problem fivepointer. You make demands, proclamations, pontifications, and pronouncements of anathema. I apologize to others here on your behalf because you are clearly incapable of catching the slightest-reality-based clue. Your character and the words you use speak for themselves. I have done nothing more than satirize in the attempt to take the edge off your sharp condemnations. You have NO sense of humor and take yourself too seriously. Lose the self-importance since humility does not make demands because you're merely continuing to make my point about fivepointer. Take yourself to the wilderness and shout at the devil. Since you don't believe in free will, you'll have to aquiesce to predestination. Those who are saved, are saved and those who are not saved are not saved. In either case, your presence is superfluous at best and downright insulting and annoying at most. As my Mom used to say when I was obnoxious: "Go bang your head against a wall."




You are just mad because someone has exposed your heterodox form of Christianity (of Gnosticism, Mysticism, and Pelagianism), and called you out on it.


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6412933 - 12/31/06 11:06 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

fivepointer, YOU are an example of why i hardly ever attempt to engage CHRISTIANS in philosophical discourse.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: implicitli]
    #6412956 - 12/31/06 11:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

mmmmm, heterodoxy...

my pagan priest friend ian suggested that i was orthopraxic - i do go to the rail for the body-n-blood of our savior... but see as my koan the grokking of the lord's prayer (ooooh, can we say together the translation from the aramaic?) & the words of institution... but then again, dr luther was called to a diet at worms to defend against heresy charges (meister eckhart & jon hus both had run-ins with the ecclessia, nicht war?)

the carpenter rabbi told us that his fathers house has many mansions - sounds sorta mahayanist to me, hehheh...


~~~

to all good volk:

happy new year
joyous yule
shalom
miru mir
blesed be
shanti om
salaam/shalom/peace
namaste


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6412980 - 12/31/06 11:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I am most assuredly not 'angry,' whereas you sir are quite 'mad.'
You have not "exposed" anything about my 'thoughts' since I am as 'up front' about them as I can be. Unlike yourself, I do not identify myself by my thoughts. YOU are the one who applies the 'cookie cutter' of doctrine and dogma to the 'dough' of Pure Consciousness. I am not a Pelagian, a Sabellian, a Montanist, a Modalist, a Patripatrianist, or any of the ridiculous hair-plitting 'heresies' that other madmen tagged other thinkers with. To affirm the mechanics of invisible, transcendental Reality with any kind of certainty is the very height of Luciferian pride and presumption.

I acknowledge The Reality of God, and affirm nothing more than it is an Absolute Mystery. I seek for 'relationship' with this Mystery after the manner of one who is "in Christ," and I have a a newsflash for you: Being "in Christ" is the very crux of mysticism (pun intended). It is not a figurative term, it is an experiencial Reality. It is what Eastern Orthodox Christians call 'theosis' and it is about becoming 'a Christ' in a slightly different sense than 'the Christ' - the appellation usually reserved for Jesus of the Bible.

Theologically, you are attempting to grasp Mercury - the ancient Hermetic symbol for Consciousness - also called Quicksilver, as the word 'quick' means living. Quicksilver, like Consciousness (the new word for 'Spirit') "blows where it listeth" in the KJ language. It moves where it will because it lives. The only way to 'fix' Mercury (in the alchemical language) is to combine it with elements that corrupt its purity. Today, we can freeze Mercury solid, but then like a 'doctrine' which does not evolve, it does not manifest the true nature of living and moving. Another newsflash: the Hermetic and alchemical ideas were condemned by churchmen because they knew exactly what I am saying about Spirit. I learned these things from them after I learned theology and the intellectually dishonest way doctrines were used to control humanity with guilt, fear, torture and death. It was not about the salvation of the masses that Christianity was about - it was about Christian imperialism - political and metaphysical.

You are yourself terribly enslaved by these thoughts and I can only surmise that you believe that your world and life will crumble without the forms that you have adopted to keep your world intact. There is a world of Light outside the cave you remain in. It is the world beyond a veil (into the Holy of Holies if you will). Thus, I have used a Platonic and a Biblical metaphor. Perhaps it is time for YOU to overturn the tables of the status quo, business-as-usual of your own theologizing - not mine, not others, YOURS. Don't worry, as a Hindu philosophy professor once told me: "The sky will not fall."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6413012 - 12/31/06 11:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Disagreeance with a capital duh


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: dblaney]
    #6413079 - 12/31/06 12:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:smile: Yes! It was a Pure Consciousness Event (PCE) and although I identify myself as being Jewish Christian Gnostic, I have to admit that it is Tibetan Buddhist mysticism that BEST describes the Experience of the Infinite ("Ascent Towards Universality"), and the reflux ("Descent Towards Realization"). First there was only the Infinite (no ego, no personality/memory, no separate experiencing 'I' [I know this is redundant with "no ego"]). It was...The Clear Light which was also Pure Infinite Expanse of Compassion.

Then, The Infinite contracted to a 'point of intense feeling' - a point of "Unbearable Compassion" that instantaneously occurred within a locus - the Lotus of my Heart - and 'I' was back - body-mind-spirit. It was like I had momentarily awakened from a dream - the dream of the phenomenal world. And, as you suggested, it was a moment of supreme paradox in which (excuse the awkwardness) The Infinite bestowed upon this humble creature, a glimpse of what I (we) Really am - 'my face before I was even conceived' - that the eye (I) through which I see God, is the same I through which God sees me.' (The two are Really One! *hush*)

When Mark 'died,' Pure Transcendental Awareness remained - Awareness of Awareness, but not my Awareness (words cannot convey this adequately). Now, if physical death reveals the same Experience, I have nothing to fear or worry about. I will then be what The Gospel of Judas calls 'of the generation of Seth' - one of the Enlightened Ones who enters consciously into Eternal Life. Not 'Knowing' THIS with complete certainty, faith remains until faith gives way to final gnosis, and one Knows for sure.

Peace.

-MtG



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6413186 - 12/31/06 01:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You may seem to be the microcosm;
In fact, you are the macrocosm.
The branch might seem like the fruit's origin:
In fact, the branch exists because of the fruit.
Would the gardener have planted the tree at all
Without a desire and hope for fruit?
That's why the tree is really born from the fruit
Even if it seems that the fruit was created by the tree.
The idea which comes first comes last in realization --
Particularly that idea which is eternal.



-- Rumi


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Moderator Notification [Re: Silversoul]
    #6413395 - 12/31/06 02:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Diploid has already brought to everyone's attention that it is agansit the rules of this forum to engage in personalisms. Ultimately, this means that it obstructs a productive discussion when an individual decides they would rather discuss a conceptual identity of the other poster.

It does not pertain to the subject at hand, for one thing, and, for another, it has no real basis in reality, as it is simply squabbling on an assumed identity of another.

This is being carried out in this thread, primarily by fivepointer and Markosthegnostic.I am requesting that this immediately ceases, as of this notification. Any continuation of the personalism battle, or any comment on this notification in this thread, will be deleted. This, coupled with Diploid's previous notification, is fair warning, and any violation will receive follow-up.

We now continue with our previously scheduled programming.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Moderator Notification [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6413667 - 12/31/06 04:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

O-Kelly Doe-Kelly!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: Silversoul]
    #6413672 - 12/31/06 04:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Beautiful!
Thanks.


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OfflineGrimTroll
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6415395 - 01/01/07 01:59 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Isnt it obvious?

God IS Satan.


--------------------
Now pick me up night and whirlwind and let me ride with you to peace of mind and nothing to rebel...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: GrimTroll]
    #6416532 - 01/01/07 10:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Uh...no.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: The Biggest Question of Christianity... [Re: fivepointer]
    #6417448 - 01/02/07 07:38 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
"I consider the doctrine of "free will" to be a damnable heresy. I also consider Gnostics, Roman Catholics, Mormons, JW's, Universalists and Annihilationists (I could go on..) to be false gospels, and those who hold to such doctrines lost souls." Now that is more correct.



I'm sorry you feel this way fivepointer.

We (the Roman Catholics) still believe that you're trying pretty hard to live a good life, and we'll be happy to see you join us in union with God.

@Implicitli
Please don't label all Christians as believers in fivepointer's doctrine, many of us would be happy to engage in philosophical debate. Please believe me when I tell you that, according to the Catholic Church, if you're asking the question "How do I live a good life?" the answer is probably that you're already doing more than enough. That usually gets lost in the extremism and the slander (We don't tell the Protestants that they're going to hell, but they sure tell us we are), but if you ever want a dialogue I'd be happy to give it.


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