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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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reasons for telling a lie or the truth
    #4576445 -

most of my lies these days are directed towards my parents and are either about money or drugs....
and i only lie becaue if i were to tell the truth i would feel shame and guilt.

a part of me also thinks that their questioning me about drugs is almost as bad as me lying (that may just be an excuse).

i also lie (or make excuses) sometimes to my friends about certain things...like reasons for not doing this or that. and reasons for that are just to appease.

so why is it better to tell the truth? so not to feel guilt, or shame, or not to get caught in a downward spiral of lies?

if i'm lied to...i'd like to think that i would not be upset at the person for lying to me because they must of had some reason to do it...and it is something they will have to deal with not me.

i guess lying prohibits growth and improvement....especially in business or relationships...but sometimes...it can probably help them from crashing all together.

any thoughts?

edit: maybe lying to prevent something from falling apart is bad because maybe it would be better if it did fall apart.

Edited by MJF (08/25/05 12:26 AM)

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MJF]
    #4576545 -

ii lie, and feel no guilt or shame abot it

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: DF2K]
    #4576989 -

what is it that you lie about? and if you told the truth would you then feel guilt or shame?

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MJF]
    #4577087 -

The reason to tell the truth is to communicate a sense of reality so that other people can make a fairly accurate judgement of whatever situation you're telling them about.

The reason to lie is more selfish in that you're bending or screwing what happened in order to control the other person's view of the situation. Sometimes, like in the situations you've described, that's not easily avoidable.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: vampirism]
    #4577185 -

thank you for posting that. i knew that...couldn't recall it though.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MJF]
    #4577506 -

Quote:
or not to get caught in a downward spiral of lies?


"if you must lie, be brief"

Quote:
maybe lying to prevent something from falling apart is bad because maybe it would be better if it did fall apart.


agreed. IMO "falling apart" is another way of saying, "moving to the next stage."


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4577511 -

I can't tell the truth without lieing.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4577526 -

what does that mean? sounds too cryptic for my tired mind right now.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MJF]
    #4577725 -

It doesnt matter what it means, he's lying to you anyways the tricky bastard


--------------------
010001100100001001000101!

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Fospher]
    #4577730 -

hahahaaa

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MJF]
    #4578587 -

MJF said:
most of my lies these days are directed towards my parents and are either about money or drugs....
and i only lie becaue if i were to tell the truth i would feel shame and guilt.


Are those really the only reasons? Or is there a real or perceived power differential in the relationship you have with your parents? Are there resources under their control which they might withhold from you if you were honest? Do they threaten to withhold their affection if you disagree/disobey?

Quote:
a part of me also thinks that their questioning me about drugs is almost as bad as me lying (that may just be an excuse).


They are certainly free to question you about whatever they want. What may be out of line is if they insist on getting answers. My mother had a hard time dealing with me saying "that is none of your business" when she tried to interrogate me. I insisted that she must respect my right as an adult to have a private life, and that there would be areas of my life which she was not allowed to know about. Eventually, I told her that if she continued to interrogate me and throw temper tantrums when I did not cooperate, I would not continue to have a relationship with her. That got through to her.

Quote:
i also lie (or make excuses) sometimes to my friends about certain things...like reasons for not doing this or that. and reasons for that are just to appease.


Here I think you may be lying more to avoid personal responsibility for your choices, and less to appease. It is difficult to tell without specific examples, but if you are telling "social lies" such as "Oh, I'd love to come to your doily-crocheting party this Saturday, but I promised to take my invalid aunt to Walmart" you may want to avoid the scary prospect of saying "I am not interested in the same things you are, but I still wish to be your friend."

Quote:
so why is it better to tell the truth? so not to feel guilt, or shame, or not to get caught in a downward spiral of lies?


IMO the reason to tell the truth is to develop a sense of self-trust. Whether anyone else knows you are lying, YOU always know. When I step up and tell the scary truth, I feel stronger and more centered. Each time I show myself that I can handle the consequences of being real, I believe it more. I believe in myself more.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Veritas]
    #4578600 -

For every thing there is a season.

Turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn, Shit, I can't seem to turn the damn thing off. Anyway you get the idea.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Icelander]
    #4579272 -

Easy one:


The danger of lying is that if you believe your own lies !


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4579738 -

That is an extremely important piece of Knowledge I have provided to you. One cannot fathom our essential place in dharma-space-time without it.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4579777 -

MushmanTheManic said:
I can't tell the truth without lieing.


Explain yourself young man. :frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4579789 -

Truth vs. truth?

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Veritas]
    #4579816 -

What is Truth?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Veritas]
    #4579822 -

Explanation?
*points to Fospher*

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Icelander]
    #4579896 -

Universal Truth, as opposed to subjective/individual truth.

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Re: reasons for telling a lie or the truth [Re: Icelander]
    #4579916 -

Truth is the paradoxically unknowable medium which we all (except for 'delusional' bums) base our experiences and sense-data off of.
Or, something profound like that.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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