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Invisibleredtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
Loc: The Old Continent
God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds
    #4415053 - 07/17/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

An interesting study was published on Friday in the Lancet medical journal. 748 patients at nine U.S. medical centers were randomly chosen to receive off-site prayer, bedside therapy, both treatments or none. In the off-site prayer situation, Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist congregations were given patients' names and prayed for them for five to 30 days. As it worked out, survival rates did not differ among those who received prayer and those who did not. Bedside therapies using music and touch before surgery reduced stress and offered a slight advantage in survival rate among patients.

It seems that God is either not listening, was away on vacation at the time, or simply does not give a fuck about our moaning. Personally, I think I?ll continue to stick with the Castanedian interpretation of the Eagle, where God is only interested in our growing awareness and simply does not give a fuck about anything else.

I?m also interested in your point of view, though.

Link to Google News Thread on this story:

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&g...NG-TOUCH-DC.XML


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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4415074 - 07/17/05 04:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

"thy shall not tempt god"

perhapse god does not answer prayers that are practiced to test existence of god.

I know I wouldn't


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4415081 - 07/17/05 04:28 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Prepare for a slopload of posts protesting this observation and "explaining" why prayer didn't work in this study.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Swami]
    #4415088 - 07/17/05 04:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I see OWS beat me to it with excuse #1.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Swami]
    #4415092 - 07/17/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure I understand. Why are excuses, and proposed explanations forbiden?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4415101 - 07/17/05 04:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The Buddhists probably prayed for them to have a better rebirth. :lol:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415142 - 07/17/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure I understand. Why are excuses, and proposed explanations forbiden?
Where was the word "forbidden" or similar phrase anywhere in my post? Why do so many invent things that the poster never said?

In your previous post, you allege to possibly know the mind of God and you have zero basis for this. Hard to have a real discussion when using pure fabrication.

Here, let me try one and then let's have a rational discussion:

"Perhaps interdimensional squid intercepted the prayers and used them for food."


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Swami]
    #4415178 - 07/17/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

squids are never mentioned in texts that talk about god. Not tempting god is mentioned. I did not made that up, it's right there from where the idea of god came in the first place. We are talking about a god from a book, so in discussing it, we can use things from the same book


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415187 - 07/17/05 04:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Not tempting god is mentioned.

Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive."

Is that too clear and precise?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Swami]
    #4415210 - 07/17/05 05:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Tempting is not asking honestly, tempting is trying to get the god to prove himself.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Swami]
    #4415212 - 07/17/05 05:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The prayers didn't originate from the sick, but from organizations attempting to turn prayer into something resembling fast food.

You cannot petition the Lord with prayer.

Prayers to God from the sick, or from their relatives, with the purpose of asking for God's help directly, heart to heart, would be certainly honored.


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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4415227 - 07/17/05 05:07 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

yea, that was my point


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleorechron
LIVEWRONG
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Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 299
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415237 - 07/17/05 05:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I believe a study comparing individuals with terminal illnesses who used prayer to those who didn't would find similar death rates.


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Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415238 - 07/17/05 05:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Why wouldn't God want to prove himself?


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PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4415249 - 07/17/05 05:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Why wouldn't God want to prove himself?




because he has once, and the rest was up to trust between people

and it is a biblical virtue to believe even if you don't see


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (07/17/05 05:12 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: orechron]
    #4415258 - 07/17/05 05:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

orechron said:
I believe a study comparing individuals with terminal illnesses who used prayer to those who didn't would find similar death rates.




have you ever met a man dieing of cancer that believes he is going to survive? Prayer works with faith.

I don't think such patients have any faith in survival anymore


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415284 - 07/17/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Huh? When? I musta missed it.


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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Invisibleorechron
LIVEWRONG
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Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Fallout Zone
Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4415291 - 07/17/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Prayer works when the laws of probability yield the result that was wished for. The instances when this works are naturally remembered more vividly than the ones where it failed leading people to believe that it is their prayer which resulted in the favorable outcome.


Can you give me an instance where prayer will likely work and can't be explained as a function of probability?


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: orechron]
    #4415317 - 07/17/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't doubt that prayer can have a placebo effect which may help patients recover from an illness.


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: God is not listening; Prayer Doesn't Improve Outcome for Heart Patients, Study Finds [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4415361 - 07/17/05 05:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You cannot petition the Lord with prayer.

Yea! Jim!


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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