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Invisibleuriahchase
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God: The biggest asshole of em all?
    #4356883 - 06/30/05 09:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

if god gave us free will.., like it says in the bible,? why then was Jesus "sent" to "save" us? i mean if say all of mankind were never subjected to the teachings of the bible,koran,etc,etc, THEN and only then would free will exist!?

how can it be said that one has free will when the ideas of heven and hell are spoon-fed into our brains? it makes us feel regret and shame!? IT makes and creates what is and isn't "right" and "wrong".

"god" by allowing us to be subjected to his errend boy jesus, just through out his whole free will idea.????

no? :stoned:


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4356928 - 06/30/05 10:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well the kind of free will offered by modern Christianity isn't a very good deal any way you look at it. You are free to be my slave or free to rot in hell. Some choice. :grin:

I grew up in Baptist fundamentalism. Guilt and shame were how I thought life was. I felt little else. LSD saved my ass. :mushroom2:

It has taken a lifetime of effort to undo the damage my parents did to me, with their fear and religion.

I have learned a lot though. I find lots of love in the world I inhabit now. :thumbup: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: Icelander]
    #4356975 - 06/30/05 10:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Seeing as he's just a figment of your imagination I'd be wary of calling anyone names.


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4357009 - 06/30/05 10:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There were gods laws, and then ther was man.

There were two ways to make humans in relation to these laws:

1. To make them blindly follow them as being automatic creatures
2. to give the free will to obey these laws or not

The choice is wheather you sin or not. You have a choice.

Now god is not responsible for making man eternal, he can make him live one year, or 10 years, it doesn't matter, it is the artistick choice of the creator.
But god decides to recreate those whom he likes best, for his personal collection in the kingdom of heaven. It's nothing personal, he is just planing to pick the ones he likes. The rest will die as it is normal for humans to die. It's not a punishment, it is simple biological mortality of people.

If man had no free will, everyone would end up in his garden,
but you have the will to live as you please if you can deal with consequences (other people will turn against you)

Lack of afterlife seems like a punishment to a greedy man that thinks he deserves to live forever. But it is really the natural state of humans. No god ows you eternal life, it is his choice to pick you if he wants

Jesus is like a guide about how to be picked by god, he is the one whispering to folks how to behave if they want eternal life

But the point is, if you do sin, your life will not be any worse than of those who do sin, in fact you may live even better, no god is going to punish you with bricks falling from sky or something.
You have free will. look at how many great sinners lived happy full lives without intervention of god. God did not in any way suggest that they should by all means change their ways. He only sent a son to tell them about this great offer: a ticket to another world, and here are the rules

Let's say I make little sentient robots, and they have free will.
I give them rules about what it takes for me to bring them to my vacation. The rule is they have to learn how to dance (and let's assume they all can). One of them doesn't want to learn how to dance, so I don't take him with me because it was my wish to have 3 dancing robots on the beach.



p.s. Of course I'm simply analising the logic of the whole thing, I'm not really a christian believer


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: Icelander]
    #4357038 - 06/30/05 10:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

By the way, the bible mentions death as an alternative to kingdom of heaven, not hell or anything like that.
You can be a happy violent mortal, or an obedient happy immortal


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineWeAreAllOne
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4357114 - 06/30/05 11:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If God forgives all sins and loves us unconditionally, why is there a Hell?


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4357138 - 06/30/05 11:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nobody said he forgives right away. Some people need a few hundred thousand years in Hell to drive home the point they were assholes in life.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: orechron]
    #4357156 - 06/30/05 11:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

orechron said:
Seeing as he's just a figment of your imagination I'd be wary of calling anyone names.




:thumbup:

It's like insulting your imaginary friend.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlineprimal
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4357300 - 07/01/05 12:01 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, it's all garbage. Don't believe any of it. :smile:


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: primal]
    #4357435 - 07/01/05 12:44 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

there is no free will when there are rules and laws..!?


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4357501 - 07/01/05 01:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WeAreAllOne said:
If God forgives all sins and loves us unconditionally, why is there a Hell?




And in that vein, I often wonder why the Bible states that God created Satan, supposedly the source of all evil in the world. So, in essence, God created his adversary, and by extension, evil.....  :confused:


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4357827 - 07/01/05 02:28 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

God is Evil? go(d)evil...

he created everything and is everywhere so with the absence of good there must be evil and if gods everywhere then god must be good and evil?..!


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: WeAreAllOne]
    #4358629 - 07/01/05 08:12 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

have you ever read the bible? there is no hell, only death


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4358705 - 07/01/05 09:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

forgive them father for they know not what they say...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4358710 - 07/01/05 09:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
have you ever read the bible? there is no hell, only death




Well then, what's with this lake of fire, and being cast into it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: Icelander]
    #4358738 - 07/01/05 09:57 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

mentioned 1% of the time...being used 99% of the time by medival and modern church

not feeling anything in death mentioned 99% of the time, being mentioned only be Jehowas witnesses, and 0% of the time by church.

Don't know what is it about the lake of fire, but it is not consistant with the 99% of the bible


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4358761 - 07/01/05 10:11 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How much of the bible is "consistant" :grin: Just because it's only mentioned in Revelations, don't mean the boogey man ain't out to get cha. :devil: :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: Icelander]
    #4358792 - 07/01/05 10:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

well I do admit, and I actually assume that most of bible is fiction. But as a fiction book, I don't see it insonsistant. Give me an example of what you mean


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4358920 - 07/01/05 11:31 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

try this out click


then click again


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


Edited by uriahchase (07/01/05 11:32 AM)


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Registered: 09/25/04
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Re: God: The biggest asshole of em all? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4358928 - 07/01/05 11:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

the bible is very inconsistant


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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