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OfflineFrog
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: lucid]
    #2209768 - 12/30/03 11:13 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lucid said: God communicates to us thro lines of the next movie, ideas that pop into our heads, the next conversation we have with a friend etc. Obviously, such thinking can be quite dangerous and quite a few nuts/terrorists in history have had the same idea. He does lay down some guidelines for distinguishing which ideas etc come from God and which are our "own".




This is true! I know we're supposed to pray for wisdom to know when it is communication from God.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Learyfan]
    #2209801 - 12/30/03 11:25 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I don't take CWG as the gospel BTW.

So you disbelieve Walsch's entire premise that it is a direct communication from God, correct? You must believe that Walsch is fabricating else you would take it as gospel.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Swami]
    #2210082 - 12/30/03 02:19 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

When I talk to anyone, i'm having a conversation with "God". What i'm saying is that i'm not sure how much of Walsh's dialogue was distorted by Walsh's human filter of conditioning.




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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Learyfan]
    #2210090 - 12/30/03 02:24 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, BTW, i'd like everyone here to go to this thread at the CWG messageboard.

http://www.cwg.org/en/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3636

They're ripping me apart over there for my beliefs and then criticizing me for being offended by it. Tell me what you think, please.




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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Learyfan]
    #2210321 - 12/30/03 04:45 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

SWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMI
hello swami
"I sincerely applaud you. However, this is nothing new and certainly not magic. You did not merely want (or not want - the CWG bullshit Zen paradox), you took real-world ACTION. That is a HUGE difference."

about the bullshit not wanting paradox , its not that bullshit. the key to using mental power, or in fact the key to DOING anything lies in this idea, at least in my interpretation. When he says Dont want it i take this to mean stop imagining (wishing whining) and make the step of doing it. I mean all of us waste hours away fantasizing about getting muscular like people in mens health magazines, beating the shit out of our enemies like bruce lee, getting rich or fucking your crush... and yet so very, very few of us are satisfied with our appearances, hit the gym as often as we want to, or are making the kind of money we want to be. Hence the not wanting idea. Wanting gets you know where! it paralyzes you.

The key here is to stop saying 'god damn i want a lear jet' and actually thinking out how it can be achieved and then putting this into action. The other important thing though is that unless we have some degree of wisdom and self knowledge most of us dont truly know whats good for us and then tend to set goals that are not truly in our best interests.

The question i asked before is why is it that so many people that are born in amazingly priveleged circumstances still 'fail there lives' so miserably. (in their own eyes) Me (and chaos magic) would say that people have built in or developed failure mechanisms, psychological impediments to success that keep us from realizing our true potential. This is also not a new idea. One example of a failure mechanism is that of fantasizing. Fantasizing is a perversion of the human goal striving mechanism. THe mind discovers it is capable of creating things it desires in the imagination much more easily than it can do so in real life. Hence there is a tendency to divert time and energy into this kind of 'immediate gratification' fantasy instead of pursuing real world goals. THis is one of a limitless number of psychological failure mechanisms we have or can develop, and these mechanisms are in my oppinion why so many people squander their potential. luck is not an excuse or explanation, and even the belief in luck is another failure mechanism.

"its certainly not magic" well, that depends entirely on your definition of magic. here are some of the more popular definitions of magic , paraphrased and uncited.

"magick is the art and science of bringing about change in accordance with the will"

extrapolating on this , magick is the art of breaking down and eliminating those factors within us as well as without that are obstacles to the change we desire.

Now you might say 'if thats all magick is, than wiping my ass is magick as long as my will is to wipe my ass!' very true. Aleister crowley says the very same thing himself. However magick postulates that the range of changes we are free/able to bring about , or our sphere of influence, can be expanded a thousand fold beyond what we currently realize.

"you took REAL WORLD ACTION, theres a huge differance" as i just said magick can and usually does effect the real world. however it can also exist entirely internally, in that magickal practices can be used to bring about inner peace, vivid visions/hallucinations, control dreams whatever. Basically the theory of magic is that you can achieve whatever you will, weather it involves real world action or not.

MAgick can be viewed as a practice in psychology or self hypnosis in that it is used to address mental issues that hinder our happiness or stand in the way of our successes, often using symbolic or ritual behaviours.

Now i mentioned how this is not a philosophy of superstition it is a philopsophy of liberation. The differance is exactly the differance swami mentions when he says "You did not merely want (or not want - the CWG bullshit Zen paradox), you took real-world ACTION. That is a HUGE difference." this is the differance between believing that performing an invocation to mars will make you big and ripped and muscular and believing that invoking mars will help you get your ass to the gym every day, or will let you push through the pain and get up when your judo opponent is choking your carotid arteries.
(mars is the god/planet governing masculine energy, strength, discipline, warfare, combat etc)

Now anything i mentioned early can be achieved without actively believing in the type of magic im describing. However it most often is not achieved, and magic is a powerfull tool for overcoming things like anxietly, insecurity, low self esteem, addiciton, procastination, etc etc etc. weather you call it psychology, magic, positive thinking, bullshit or tripe, it can definetly bring about positive change in your life. (or help you to bring about positive change in your life, the differance is arbitrary)

leary fan: i still dont believe GOD talked to this dude weather it was face to face or thru some kind of automatic writing. I could believe he communicated with god in his own divine self, just as the suffis, bodhisatvvas, saints and brujos do . The reason i make the distinction is that all the above people i mentioned have entirely diffrent experiences of what god is and yet they are all equally divine. The fact that this guy says god talked about things like star trek shows quite clearly he is drawing gods word out of his own experience, it is not being channeld to him from heaven.

Swami: i agree it is somewhat distastefull to claim that god told him these things. however he might well honestlty believe it, and also if it makes more people pick up the book it will probably reach more people and thus help more people. Especially because i believe in chaos magic (we rip off traditions and beliefs from everyone from harry potter and hp lovecraft to cornelius agrippa, abremalim magus and jesus christ) i dont care weather this guy talked to god or weather carlos castaneda made the whole thing up out of his ass, what matters is what i get out if it. After all every wise man sage and philosopher made the whole thing up out of his ass.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2210428 - 12/30/03 06:06 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

i agree it is somewhat distastefull to claim that god told him these things.




How is it distasteful to claim that God told you something?





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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Learyfan]
    #2210441 - 12/30/03 06:16 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

well because that simple claim has been used to fuel a million murders, genocides, muggings, lynchings, burninngs and beatings. it has been used to rip people off, peddle phony ideas to desperate people and discriminate against the millions of other people who dont agree with what you call god or what you claim he told you.

I find it distastefull because its arrogant and presumptuous in that a million people have said the same thing about entirely diffrent ideas and even entirely diffrent GODS.

Its distastefll because (unless theres genuine belief behind it) it is simply a trick to give undeserved wieght to your own ideas. someone earlier said who cares what some random joe says , but when its GOD saying it thats a diffrent story. Claiming god told you something is claiming divine right, it excludes other points of view and takes personal philosophy to the level of universal law.

Its distastefull to assume that a divine being would help you write your self help book but not help the starving children all around the world.

its distastefull, in short because 1. its usually (always?) not true
and 2. the claim is usually misused for less than divine purposes

so yeah. distastefull


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Learyfan]
    #2210466 - 12/30/03 06:29 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

What i'm saying is that i'm not sure how much of Walsh's dialogue was distorted by Walsh's human filter of conditioning.

Fair enough. And I apologize for my remark earlier in the thread as I actually enjoy your inputs. (Is Swami mellowing?!  :stoned:) Then my question becomes: How is that different than for any other human being? Are we all "channeling" God through our filters?


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (12/30/03 09:06 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2210561 - 12/30/03 07:38 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Its distastefll because (unless theres genuine belief behind it) it is simply a trick to give undeserved wieght to your own ideas. someone earlier said who cares what some random joe says , but when its GOD saying it thats a diffrent story. Claiming god told you something is claiming divine right, it excludes other points of view and takes personal philosophy to the level of universal law.




I TOTALLY understand what you're saying here. Many people have said that God has told them to do this or that, and it's caused the world MUCH pain. Hell, George W. Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, right? But what the CWG series is saying is that it's ok not to believe what was written in those books. If you don't believe what was written, then at the very least you will be pointed towards your own truth.

Quote:

Its distastefull to assume that a divine being would help you write your self help book but not help the starving children all around the world.




What the world needs is a shift in consciousness before anything can really get done. That's what this book is trying to accomplish. Instead of buying the world some fish so that it could eat for a night, "God" is teaching the world to fish so that it can eat forever. See?




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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Conversations With God" messageboard [Re: Swami]
    #2210566 - 12/30/03 07:44 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
What i'm saying is that i'm not sure how much of Walsh's dialogue was distorted by Walsh's human filter of conditioning.

Fair enough. And I apologize for my remark earlier in the thread as I actually ennoy your inputs. (Is Swami mellowing?!  :stoned:) Then my question becomes: How is that different than for any other human being? Are we all "channeling" God through our filters?




Thanks Swami. I enjoy your(positive) posts as well. You're a smart guy for sure.

Yes, I think we're all channeling "God" through our individual filters. Neale Donald Walsh just happened to have done it in a way that works really well for me and makes sense to me(and many others).





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