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Offlinefalcon
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Thou shalt have no other gods before Me
    #1854084 - 08/27/03 08:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Does the first commandment imply that there are other gods?
Is God insecure?


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?




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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1854098 - 08/27/03 08:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

God hates competition. - From the move Dogma


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Seuss]
    #1854109 - 08/27/03 09:10 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

abram (later abraham), who is revered by jews, christians, and muslims, was a worshipper of other deities; he made a covenant with yahwewh... jews claim descent from sarah (wife), muslims from hagar (servant), and christians by adoption through christ...
the god of the israelites began his earthly career as a local, tribal, mountain-top-type god of a wandering sheepherding people... eventually his duties expanded to become the creator of the universe :wink: ...
of course, that commandment given to moses could be interpreted as a directive to place no other concerns (status, wealth, whatever) above the place that god holds in the heart of a believer...
(an intersting sidenote --- some of the references to god in the torah are definitely plural (adonoi, elohim) and even in the genesis eden story, god said: "the man has become like one of us...")


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1854135 - 08/27/03 09:31 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The idea that only one god exists came later than the idea that there is a supreme god that doesn't want people to worship the lesser gods.

The first commandment can also be seen as part of a religious self-propagation meme. It's like an immune system. It resists influence from other religions because any such influence may be taken as seeing some kind of merit in the other religion's gods.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1855114 - 08/27/03 04:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, god is very inscecure, very very insecure, also if you read the first couple of books therily you'll see he does lie acouple times and regrets a couple actions, i mean the guy needs a rainbow to remind him NOT to destroy Humanity by water again. So weather he exist or not is not for me to decide but if he does, hes far form perfect. Sounds like quite the pot smoker to me.


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: gnrm23]
    #1855196 - 08/27/03 04:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yahweh is the same god that issued the 10 commandments, not a different one. Peace.


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1855199 - 08/27/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Exodus 20:1-17

Quote:

1 And God spoke all these words:

2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.




Quote:

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.




Quote:


7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
13 "You shall not murder.
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
15 "You shall not steal.
16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."





I feel it interesting that god in no way states there is only ONE god - him - but merely implies by line 4 that the other gods he is refering to are merely idols, which, may I point out are 'worshipped' EVERY day in societies across the globe.

The way I see it, the bible is supposed to "show you the way", but it's so damn contradictory and mysterious that it causes more contraversy than it solves.  It has some good lessons, comparible to that of Aesop's Fables, but that aside, I don't really see it as much more than the work of sheep related over centuries by charlatans as a means of unenforced moral law with nothing but the threat of eternal turmoil (which is impossible to comprehend, on the human vibration). :tongue: :lol: :lol: :lol: 


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: nubious]
    #1855240 - 08/27/03 04:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The ten commandments can basically be broken down into two themes:

Love your neighbor as you love yourself;
Love God above all else.

The first five deal with loving God, the second five deal with loving your neighbor.

Also, be careful of translations. It is very easy to taint the meaning of something, but still hold the original wording, through a iffy translation.



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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Seuss]
    #1855389 - 08/27/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yeah the translation from Hebrew to Englished ruined enough.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Seuss]
    #1855937 - 08/27/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

God hates competition. - From the move Dogma
That's what I was thinking,
gnrm23 eventually his duties expanded to become the creator of the universe ...
and this is why it seems so odd. The first commandment is an odd statement from the creator of the universe.
Rhizoid The idea that only one god exists came later than the idea that there is a supreme god that doesn't want people to worship the lesser gods.
Growing up I was under the impression that in Catholic theology there were no other gods at all. While walking by the courthouse I looked at the plaque with the ten commandments on it. I don't know how I missed it so long, there is more than one god. Unless it is a case of the original meaning being lost in the translation. In english it seems that the first commandment impiles that there are more than one god.


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?




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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1856394 - 08/27/03 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"some of the references to god in the torah are definitely plural (adonoi, elohim) "

some are plural and some are feminine.

I think this commandment really goes back to the law of one (Akhunatan). It was not competition, but separation, that God tries to warn us about with this commandment.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1859119 - 08/28/03 03:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yeah like the ELOHIM mentioned in genesis is actualy plural in its original text.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Spokesman]
    #1860581 - 08/28/03 10:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Anyone have any idea how many gods ELOHIM represented?


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?




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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1861286 - 08/29/03 01:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Elohim is the word for God Or Gods. In the biblical translation of Genesis it is known as Yaweh (proper, hebrew :wink: ). 


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What?


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1862460 - 08/29/03 01:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

God is as paranoid, insecure, violent, vengeful and dangerous as his followers in the Whitehouse.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Ped]
    #1862476 - 08/29/03 01:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
God is as paranoid, insecure, violent, vengeful and dangerous as his followers in the Whitehouse.




So, you met him, and he gave you this impression? How did you come to this conclusion?
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1877133 - 09/03/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

biblical scholars identify at least 3 threads within hebrew scriptures:
J (yahwist)
E (elohist)
P (priestly)


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: gnrm23]
    #1877226 - 09/03/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Ped said:
God is as paranoid, insecure, violent, vengeful and dangerous as his followers in the Whitehouse.





Fireworks God said:
So, you met him, and he gave you this impression? How did you come to this conclusion?
Peace.





o0o0o a Bush backer hey? How can you disagree with what Ped said? I feel that listening to all that death metal has somewhat disconcerted your clarity... but hey, that's just my opinion.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: Ped]
    #1877227 - 09/03/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
God is as paranoid, insecure, violent, vengeful and dangerous as his followers in the Whitehouse.




Couldnt agree more. How do i come wit this conclusion u say? well, read the bible. Isnt the God in the bible the one everyone praises?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me [Re: falcon]
    #1879052 - 09/03/03 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Reality is Ultimately ONE. ONE means without parts, divisions, indivisible. It is also 'unbounded' as certain pre-Socratic philosophers liked to say, and which we attribute Infinity and Eternity at least since Plotinus and the Upanishads, earlier still.

The Qu'ran assigns 99 attributes to Allah without compromising Absolute Unity - 'There is no God, but God...'

"Hear O Israel, the LORD your GOD, the LORD is ONE." The Hebrew Shema.

The highest concentrative degree of mind, becoming 'one-pointed,' in meditation, results in a 'singlarity,' that is simultaneously Infinitely small and Infinitely large, such that small and large cease to have meaning and vanish in 'the Face which alone perishes not' (the Essence of God in the Qu'ran). This is Islamic Sufi thought.

GOD is not 'a being.' GOD is The Ground of Being. All existence derives its existence from the Ground of Being - from Essence - from GOD. This realization is discoverable, a priori, from all genuine intuitive or mystical experience. This is Western mystical thought from Meister Eckhart to Paul Tillich.

"Una Substantia, Tres Personas." The Christian Trinitarian doctrine that affirms One Substance in Three Persons, which symbolizes a living dynamism in the ONE Godhead (Jungian interpretation of classical Christian theology).

Ultimate Reality=GOD. GOD is ALL inclusive. Acknowledgement of anything less than the ALL inclusive ONE, is 'shirk,' idolatry, wrong-view (heresy). Therefore, the love of money, sex, power, possessions, etc., etc., are just some of the idols of old and of contemporary existence, and there are numerous names of these things (and others) in antiquity which personified them as gods and goddesses. From the rock idols that Abraham smashed, to todays rock [and roll] idols, people still fail to worship the ONE True GOD.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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