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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
innocent people and women and children
    #4299874 - 06/15/05 04:44 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

While people most of the time don't like acts of killing (unless state says its ok) they specially don't like when women and children are being killed. Almost to that measure that one is considered totally heartless when killing women and children, and just bad (not heartless) when killing grown men.

One more thing. Often people consider killing innocent people worse than killing people that did something bad

so...

1. What is killing women and children worse than killing men?

a few things come to my mind:
a) when it comes to women, its pure sexism, women are still considered the weaker and more innocent sex.
b) when it comes to children, its the fact that they are defenseless.

BUT, isn't ANY man defenseless when you point a gun at him regardless of age and sex?


2. When it comes to killing innocent people. Does it mean that its ok to kill people that did something wrong? What is the difference between killing an innocent man and a "guilty" man?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4299915 - 06/15/05 04:55 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quick side-note: in the US, only men are required to register with selective service at age 18, and only men are subject to the draft.

Women in the military are not allowed into combat even though there are many women who want combat missions because that's the only way to rapidly advance their careers.

Women are better suited physiologically to endure the high-G environments found in fighter aircraft than men, but the military restricts them to training male fighter pilots and does not allow them into combat.

No rational explanation has ever been given for this bias by the military.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4299942 - 06/15/05 05:05 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

The only rational logic I have heard for keeping women out of combat, is that women, as prisoners of war, would be far more likely to be raped and sexually abused. This is certainly true, but I can't see why that would prevent them from serving in fighter aircrafts.

Of course, Newt Gingerich's quote says a lot:

"If combat means living in a ditch, females have biological
problems staying in a ditch for thirty days because they
get infections and they don't have upper body strength. I
mean, some do, but they're relatively rare. On the other hand,
men are basically little piglets, you drop them in the ditch,
they roll around in it, doesn't matter, you know. These things
are very real. On the other hand, if combat means being on an
Aegis-class cruiser managing the computer controls for twelve
ships and their rockets, a female may be again dramatically
better than a male who gets very, very frustrated sitting in
a chair all the time because males are biologically driven to
go out and hunt giraffes."


So I guess it really helps to look at how we perceive men & women. I think you're on target.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4299945 - 06/15/05 05:06 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I always felt it was the why and not the who.

I know of a lot of divorced guys who don't think of women as innocent or the weaker sex. :grin:

There is no difference between killing the guilty or the innocent in an ultimate sense. There both just as dead. So the diff is just our choice to kill for one reason and not another.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: Twirling]
    #4300401 - 06/15/05 06:41 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

That's war. I'm not asking why women are not drafted. I'm asking why is it more immoral to kill women and children than to kill men


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4300420 - 06/15/05 06:45 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I think people see women as less aggressive and so less deserving of violence.

People see kids as inherently innocent and so also less deserving.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 20,919
Loc: The Hand
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: Diploid]
    #4300496 - 06/15/05 06:58 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

"I think people see women as less aggressive and so less deserving of violence."

Women don't need to be aggressive to get their way with men.  Why be violent when charm and manipulation work so well?

When women fight each other it can be both aggressive and violent!

:samurai:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4300546 - 06/15/05 07:11 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Why be violent

Good question.

Why hurt someone when you could get high with them insetad?  :stoned:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: Diploid]
    #4300552 - 06/15/05 07:13 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

:thumbup: :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 20,919
Loc: The Hand
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: Diploid]
    #4300568 - 06/15/05 07:17 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

What if you are out of drugs and mad as hell? Then, would it be OK to hurt someone insetad of getting high with them? I mean, does the not getting high change things?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: innocent people and women and children [Re: Diploid]
    #4300618 - 06/15/05 07:28 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I think people see women as less aggressive and so less deserving of violence.

People see kids as inherently innocent and so also less deserving.




whcih bring us the the second issue, what does innocence have to do with deserving violence?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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