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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Relating to Children [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4102809 - 04/27/05 01:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
It's not about my daughter being different. Give me anyones kids who has a listening problem and within minutes to hours, I can have them listening to me.



What if the child is INCAPABLE of comprehending?

Quote:

You said , "what about when they are babies?"



NO I DIDN'T. There is a point in many a child's development where he or she can walk, but cannot be reasoned with. Please don't criticise me for things that I didn't say.

Quote:

Your argument aout my one child being different is absolutely MUTE regarding disccsuions of methids for non hitting that work.



All children are exactly the same? Back in the real world...

Quote:

You don't have a case here auto for saying even spanking is the only and best way.



I NEVER SAID THAT. If you are going to critique my statements, try actually reading them and responding to the actual content of my posts.

Quote:

Don't talk to me like I just fell off a trunip truck.



Why not, it's obvious you must have been doing something other that reading and comprehending my posts?

Quote:

I was hit as a kid and you will NEVER get me to agree with you that it is the best or only way to go because I already proved that wrong to myself in my own experience.



There is a WORLD of difference between a slight smack on the bottom to quickly get a child's attention and hitting them. That you fail to grasp the difference shows that you still have to work through your experiences.

I hope the home schooling of your daughter will involve teaching her better attention to detail and comprehension in her reading assignments than her mother exhibits.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinemygodisme
mommy

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 37
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Relating to Children [Re: Autonomous]
    #4102868 - 04/27/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The entire reason for spanking my child is to get her attention. When logic and reasoning fail, because she isn't mature enough to reach these conclusions on her own she must realize that as the adults, we have set the rules and she must follow them. The way to bring her attention back to that, when nothing else works, is to give her a smack on the bottom and say "Listen to me."

I sat my kid down yesterday afternoon and discussed with her about how her father and I discipline her. I asked her if she felt that we were fair, and asked her if she thought spanking her when she misbehaved was bad. She responded with a no, she did not believe getting spanked was bad, and that, "Honestly, mama, it doesn't really hurt, it just embarrasses me!"

I asked her why she believed we spank her, and she said to the effect of 'sometimes I am really bad and don't listen to what you say and keep being bad so you spank me and then I listen to you.'

I asked her if she felt the way we discipline her is fair. She told me that she believes we are very fair with her, because we always give her the chance to correct what she was doing. We also are consistent in our discipline without going overboard on the little things (if she forgets to put her socks in the clothes hamper, for example, no matter how many times we tell her we don't spank her; we keep reminding her, and explaining to her why it is important she keep her clothes in one place).

In this case, a smart and mature seven year old understands the reasons behind her punishments, does not believe they are unfair, and, while she doesn't like being punished, realizes that if she does something bad she needs to get punished (and punishment in our house is usually a lecture from me...punishment enough)

I asked her if she believed that spanking was hitting, and she said no. I asked her if she thought I had ever hit her, and she said no. I asked her what the difference between spanking and hitting was, and she smacked me on the shoulder and said that was hitting, and spanking is a couple of times on the bottom.

Can you actually believe that this a child who, having been reared with spanking as pretty much the last option, will grow up to be angry, violent, whatever? She has never hit another child, she has always shared happily, she gets along well with other children, she has never had a problem with another child whatsoever.


--------------------
I've seen the infinite. It's nothing special.



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Offlineegghead1
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Posts: 931
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: mygodisme]
    #4102894 - 04/27/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mygodisme said:
The entire reason for spanking my child is to get her attention. When logic and reasoning fail, because she isn't mature enough to reach these conclusions on her own she must realize that as the adults, we have set the rules and she must follow them. The way to bring her attention back to that, when nothing else works, is to give her a smack on the bottom and say "Listen to me."

I sat my kid down yesterday afternoon and discussed with her about how her father and I discipline her. I asked her if she felt that we were fair, and asked her if she thought spanking her when she misbehaved was bad. She responded with a no, she did not believe getting spanked was bad, and that, "Honestly, mama, it doesn't really hurt, it just embarrasses me!"

I asked her why she believed we spank her, and she said to the effect of 'sometimes I am really bad and don't listen to what you say and keep being bad so you spank me and then I listen to you.'

I asked her if she felt the way we discipline her is fair. She told me that she believes we are very fair with her, because we always give her the chance to correct what she was doing. We also are consistent in our discipline without going overboard on the little things (if she forgets to put her socks in the clothes hamper, for example, no matter how many times we tell her we don't spank her; we keep reminding her, and explaining to her why it is important she keep her clothes in one place).

In this case, a smart and mature seven year old understands the reasons behind her punishments, does not believe they are unfair, and, while she doesn't like being punished, realizes that if she does something bad she needs to get punished (and punishment in our house is usually a lecture from me...punishment enough)

I asked her if she believed that spanking was hitting, and she said no. I asked her if she thought I had ever hit her, and she said no. I asked her what the difference between spanking and hitting was, and she smacked me on the shoulder and said that was hitting, and spanking is a couple of times on the bottom.

Can you actually believe that this a child who, having been reared with spanking as pretty much the last option, will grow up to be angry, violent, whatever? She has never hit another child, she has always shared happily, she gets along well with other children, she has never had a problem with another child whatsoever.




This almost makes me cry. You've already conditioned her into believing that sometimes she is a 'bad' person. I can see the teenage depression coming a mile off. Maybe if you just quietly sat down and explained to her how sometimes her unruly actions cause a negative emotional reaction within yourself she would better understand why its important for her to listen to you when you are talking to her. The same applies for any given situation. Then this encourages her to look at her actions and how they effect others instead of beating herself up for being a 'bad' girl when she makes a mistake. You are raising your daughter up to be just another human robot, well done! Maybe if you spanked her less and treated her as an equal human being you might be giving her a chance to develop her own morals, responsibility and awareness.

The only thing smacking her is doing is reinforcing a belief that their is somehow some element of badness inside of her that you are punishing her for (be it physical pain or psychological pain embarrassment). I feel quite sad with this chain of events. What makes you think that you are somehow Superior and have any right at all to instill fear in your child. Of course the child is going to think that its in her best interest, she trust you with her life for god sake! read my previous post for parental guidance, i am truly sickened by your lack of parenting skills. And i cant believe that you are trying to "mature" a seven year old, this makes me almost vomit.


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (04/27/05 01:55 PM)


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Offlinemygodisme
mommy

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 37
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Relating to Children [Re: egghead1]
    #4102936 - 04/27/05 02:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

My child is quite well aware that she is not a bad person. We have explained to her many times the differences between a person being bad and actions being bad. It is easier for a child to grasp the concept of "When I misbehave I am being bad" than "When I am misbehaving I am doing an action that is bad."

The only "conditioning" I have given her is that she needs to stand up for herself and think for herself. Until we took her away from her birth mother (who was allowing her at the time four year old daughter to partake of marijuana, acid, etc. and thinking "Oh, this is just fine!") she cringed every time you tried to tickle her, you could not joke with her at all without her crying, and the idea of leaving her alone in a room terrified her.

I have now "conditioned" her to the point where she realizes that she is her own person. She realizes actions have consequences. She realizes that our house has rules, and if she breaks those rules, there are reprocussions that follow.

In the entire time we have had custody of my daughter she has been spanked less than five times. However, she is a normal and healthy child, and gets into mischief like they all do; so, for the past 4 years, spanking less than five times...that doesn't equal a lot, does it? Oh, and the less than five times is between her father and myself combined. 2 people, four years, five times... do the math.

As for the rest of your attempt to make me feel bad about myself by calling my parenting skills lacking, etc., perhaps you should try practicing some of that unconditonal love you are preaching and instead of telling me what a horrible person I am for smacking my kid on the rear a couple of times because she lied about something another kid did that got him into trouble (and if you had any idea of how many times we have talked to her about lying you would fully understand...lying is not okay, it is never okay, she should never lie to us or anybody else. That has been since day one in our house and she broke the rules to get this boy into trouble because she did not like him).

So, I will forgive you for being hateful and rude and mean. Despite your hatred for your fellow humans who do what instinct and logic tells them to do when rearing their children, I still feel the love for you.

Take care


--------------------
I've seen the infinite. It's nothing special.



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Autonomous]
    #4102966 - 04/27/05 02:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

LOL,

I knew you were going to bring up my grammar and spelling. The topic here is on relating to children and has moved into using physical force as a disciplinary tool. It's not about MY poor grammer or spelling. No kidding mine blows.

While I was typing up that last reply, I was putting moe enerygy and attention into helping her drill for a spelling test. She got a 100%. I also teach gramar from a grammar text, not my bad habits, if you care to know.



Well, you all have a right to spank and teach the virtues of spanking, just be wise about not doing it in public...........remember the walmart parking lot mom, her kid in foster care and her in jail.

My poor mom now sees how me and my two brothers with kids raise them without physical force or "spanking" and use consistant follow through and how well it works and she feels soo bad for what went down in our house. She just shakes her head and mumbles, "I didn't know there was another way"

Whack away the old school way if you must. :whack: 

:heart: :peace:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Relating to Children [Re: mygodisme]
    #4103015 - 04/27/05 02:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mygodisme said:
My child is quite well aware that she is not a bad person.  We have explained to her many times the differences between a person being bad and actions being bad.  It is easier for a child to grasp the concept of "When I misbehave I am being bad" than "When I am misbehaving I am doing an action that is bad." 

Explain to me now, what is the difference, i can't wait to see this one. What is the difference between a "Bad person" and someone who commits "Bad actions"?

The only "conditioning" I have given her is that she needs to stand up for herself and think for herself.  Until we took her away from her birth mother (who was allowing her at the time four year old daughter to partake of marijuana, acid, etc. and thinking "Oh, this is just fine!") she cringed every time you tried to tickle her, you could not joke with her at all without her crying, and the idea of leaving her alone in a room terrified her.

Thats sad, she most certainly has a better life with you, thats for sure.

I have now "conditioned" her to the point where she realizes that she is her own person.  She realizes actions have consequences.  She realizes that our house has rules, and if she breaks those rules, there are reprocussions that follow. 

That sounds reasonable, but the reprocutions should never be physically or mentally damaging

In the entire time we have had custody of my daughter she has been spanked less than five times.  However, she is a normal and healthy child, and gets into mischief like they all do; so, for the past 4 years, spanking less than five times...that doesn't equal a lot, does it?  Oh, and the less than five times is between her father and myself combined.  2 people, four years, five times...  do the math.

Considering the background and math,s it is the lesser of two evils (compared with leaving her with the neglegent mother). But it still doen'nt make it the best course of actions at all and I dread to think what of you call normal. [

As for the rest of your attempt to make me feel bad about myself by calling my parenting skills lacking, etc., perhaps you should try practicing some of that unconditonal love you are preaching and instead of telling me what a horrible person I am for smacking my kid on the rear a couple of times because she lied about something another kid did that got him into trouble (and if you had any idea of how many times we have talked to her about lying you would fully understand...lying is not okay, it is never okay, she should never lie to us or anybody else.  That has been since day one in our house and she broke the rules to get this boy into trouble because she did not like him).

Did i say that you were a horrible person? A little bit of an assumption on your part dont ya think? As the for the rest of your comments, i will just say this. You just wait until she hits puberty, then you will see the result of your parenting skills. I was just expressing my feelings, i never intended to make you feel horrible, but if thats how you felt, then perhaps it was for a good reason and you should investigate the cause of that feeling.

So, I will forgive you for being hateful and rude and mean.  Despite your hatred for your fellow humans who do what instinct and logic tells them to do when rearing their children, I still feel the love for you.

Sheesh what a bucket load of false assumtpions ended with a holier than thou statement.  I apoloigize if you thought i was rude, i was only expressing my deep concern on the matter, and i can assure you that i felt no hatred toward you, just  deep sickening sadness right down to the pit of my stomach. Of course you will always love your child, no matter what you do to her.

Take care

You too  :heart:





--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (04/27/05 02:37 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: tomk]
    #4103471 - 04/27/05 03:57 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"I agree with Huehuecoyotl, everyone should beat kids to death."

You have taken me out of context and put words in my mouth. You apparently read none of my other posts on this thread where I discussed respect and reason. Once again I want to hear of evidence of your righteousness. How many kids you got and did any survive to adulthood?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: egghead1]
    #4103483 - 04/27/05 04:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I will ask again.(I have asked you before) How many kids have you raised? How many are adults? I back up my methods with practical experience not untested theory. I get the feeling that most of the people here who advocate that spanking is cruel are not experienced parents.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4103503 - 04/27/05 04:06 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have none to speak of. But i live with my brother and his child, so i know what im talking about. There are many other parents who ive met who share the same views as me, all of which have raised ,respectful, responsible human beings into adulthood, most of which have grwon up to be who i would consdier very spiritually evolved people . its the parents lack of patience which is at fault, not the child.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4103511 - 04/27/05 04:10 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with your view here in every respect. Children should have limits that are well defined and clear, as well as a clearly defined consequence to associate with those limits in a consistant manner. To do anything else is a disservice to the child if not outright neglect.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: egghead1]
    #4103519 - 04/27/05 04:13 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Seeing your brothers children IS NOT hands on experience at parenting. Neither is babysitting. You must be a 24 hour a day parent sfor a few years to understand these issues correctly. I do not wish to be rude, but until you have had that experience you are merely guessing and plying untested theories. In this area I know my shit very well. My results support my method.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4103543 - 04/27/05 04:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Ummm no, my brother is disabled and as such i do most of the childcare and general work around the house, and i ahve been for the past 5 years. The theory is not untested as i have many many parents who are close friends of mine who swear by this method, uphold it and develop/ed 'with' their children becuase it brings the results i have stated. I do not wish to be rude, but in this area i also know my shit very well. My results also support my methods, although they are not accepted into the social 'norm' becuase of three main factors, ignorance, fear, and arrogance!

People belive in the other stagnant, immoral and dammaging methods becuase its all tha they know, we''ve been doing it since forever, thats why we are so fucked up, and have many mental, social and environmental problems as a species, their is little respect and equality in the world today, and i would bet all my money that President Bush was taught from a very young age that violence in some situations was ok, hell he probably even went hunting!!!!


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (04/27/05 04:29 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: egghead1]
    #4103839 - 04/27/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have 17 years of parenting. All of my kids are great students, and are respectful of others. They also are creative individuals. I know people who raise kids without setting limits...the kids are disrespectful monsters. Once again you are NOT a parent. What is wrong with hunting? I believe in participating in the cycle of life and death directly, on a spiritual level, instead of as an observer. BUT that is another matter.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4103914 - 04/27/05 06:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I knew you were going to bring up my grammar and spelling.



:rolleyes:  What kind of medication are you on?  I brought up NOTHING about your grammar and spelling.  On the contrary, I brought up the subject of your READING COMPREHENSION.  You attributed things to me which I did not say... and with this post, you've done it again!

Quote:

Well, you all have a right to spank and teach the virtues of spanking, just be wise about not doing it in public...........remember the walmart parking lot mom, her kid in foster care and her in jail.



Again, you have demonstrated an exceedingly poor grasp of the concepts I am trying to convey.  Please, try re-reading my posts and getting AT LEAST the gist of my ideas, not what you think I might be saying by only skimming the first sentence.

Quote:

Whack away the old school way if you must.



I NEVER said anything about whacking the old school way.  It is amazing that someone can appear so lacking in comprehension... have you even read my posts all the way through?  Perhaps if you take off your emotional blinders, or at least move them to the side of your head instead of directly in front, you may find that you can read the words as they appear on your screen and not as you imagine them.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Autonomous]
    #4103992 - 04/27/05 06:37 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe my comprehension sucks too then. Remember, I was also hit a lot as a kid.

Auto, what do you want from me? A gold medal for justifying spanking children?

You are not going to get it no matter how much you criticize my reading comprehension.

There is NO justification for it in my book. NOTHING you say to justify it maters to me. I speak in this thread to say, there is another way not to agree with the spankers.

If you are okay with it and want to teach its virtues to others go ahead. I think its barbaric, obsolete and inhumane, doesn't mean you are, I think the practice is. If that bothers you then maybe its because deep down you agree. If it doesn't bother you then why do you keep fussing here with me in need of my approval or something?

If I am not comprehending your justification as being that, so what.

The other members here are comprehending what you write so why repeat it to me if all I hear is "It's okay to spank children". Save it if you're trying to convince me its okay.



Hue Hue, why not go back to your original post which was excellent and did not involve spanking children.

You taught to treat them with the respect you would an adult.

Hue Hue, do you spank your co-workers as a last resort for poor work performance? :lol:

Ahem


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (04/27/05 06:44 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4104503 - 04/27/05 08:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

My original post was dealing with children in a middle school. My own children get that treatment as well. When they were younger a traditional spanking was also employed at times. By traditional I do NOT mean beating the hell out of them, but over the knee with my hand. I did not inflict much pain, but I intended to show them the outer boundaries of my limits. Just because it is not painful does not make it less shocking. It was the ultimate expression of my displeasure. Unlike many here I was NOT abused physically as a child in any way. I did not fear that I would lose the ability to control myself when spanking. I NEVER let a child get me truly angry. I see myself as a guide...but one who demands respect. Needless to say my children are too old for this type of conditioning these days...in fact it has been several years since they have even been severely, verbally reprimanded. This is because I treated them with consistency while setting definite limits. My original post stands, but that is only one aspect of my method. I reiterate I have three children that are as near to perfectly well behaved, free thinking, creative and intelligent as is possible. You cannot tell me I was wrong because my personal experience tells me otherwise. So, your belittling of me has no impact. It is very apparent that you are also reading my posts selectively. I did state earlier that it had been over 8 years since handing out a spanking...but there is a time and place for them just as there is a time and place for encouragement and respect. I am not a one-trick pony. My co-workers are my peers...not small (under 7 years) children...and not my children, BUT if I could get a way with it I would spank a few of them just for chuckles.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4105576 - 04/28/05 12:16 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Look, you idiots.

DONT HIT KIDS.

If the kid lacks the conceptual ability to understand an idea like not running in the street, the kid also lacks the concuptual ability to understand the limits you place on spanking. In light of this lack of conceptual ability, the kid cannot understand the concepts involved in why you are hitting them. Because they lack conceptual abilities, they learn hitting = OK, because they see parents do it and the other concepts go over their heads.

If the kid does have the conceptual ability to understand the limits you place on spanking, he can understand the concepts involved in not running into the street or whatever.

I repeat. Don't fucking hit kids. It's simple.

Look at what you are doing. You are hitting kids. Don't do it. Ever. Fuck.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Relating to Children [Re: tomk]
    #4105590 - 04/28/05 12:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Another enlightened post. :crazy:

Make the distinction between hitting and spanking please.

Might want to review what is being stated and make sure you are clear as to what everyone is getting at.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
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Re: Relating to Children [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4105711 - 04/28/05 01:12 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"Make the distinction between hitting and spanking please."

All third basemen are baseball players.  Not all baseball players are third basemen. 

Likewise, all spanking is hitting.  Not all hitting is spanking.

If you touch a child with the intent to cause anxiety or fear or pain in that child, you are abusing them.  All spanking has the intent to cause anxiety or fear.  Never touch a child with the intention of causing anxiety or fear or pain.  Ever.  Simple!

It's very simple.  I understand the arguments that sometimes a child will not have an anxiety response when they should (running in a street), etc, and that the parent needs to provide it.  This is basic stimulus response.  What the people who advocate this fail to realize is that timing is so important for stimulus response learning that even if the spanking comes immediately after the behavior.  The child will not associate the spanking (response part of stimulus response) with the right stimulus.  This will fuck up the kid.  Childrens minds are tremendously open.  You do not have the ability to assure the spanking attaches itself to the right stimulus in the kids head.  If you think you do, you are deluding yourself.  Even if, sometimes, a kid would benefit from that response to avoid a dangerous behavior, you do not have the ability to line it up right with the stimulus response in the kids head.  The kid might assosiate the anxiety with you, and become distrustful.  Anything could happen.  You guys are extremely arrogant if you think you can line this up right so the kid learns what you think you are teaching him.

Look, when you spank a kid you are intentionally inflicting anxiety on that kid.  DONT DO THAT TO KIDS.  EVER.  If you cannot figure out how to raise kids without hitting them, don't have kids.  It's very simple. 

If you cannot figure out a way to stop your kid from running in the street without spanking them, let the kid see you get run over.  The kid can learn from that, and you deserve to die anyway for thinking about hitting kids.  :mad:


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Relating to Children [Re: tomk]
    #4105777 - 04/28/05 01:56 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:rotfl: Thanks for suggesting that I should be fucked up as a result of how I was raised :smile:.

Sorry tomk but you can please be more specific?

"If you cannot figure out a way to stop your kid from running in the street without spanking them, let the kid see you get run over. The kid can learn from that, and you deserve to die anyway for thinking about hitting kids."

Maybe explain this comment, and while your at it, tell us a little bit more about the reality where you're from.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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