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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Oh, come now, you know that redgreenvines was referring to political demonstrations, i.e. marching in circles with slogan-covered signs, deliberately getting arrested in order to initiate a court case to legalize drugs, or testifying to support said court case.
You are intentionally broadening the scope of his comment beyond the context of his discussion. If he had said "I don't believe in allowing my children to go out in public," then you might have an argument for them being isolated from the world.
Within the context of including children in political demonstrations or not including children in political demonstrations, would you say that the latter option involves isolating them from the world?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Veritas]
#5209909 - 01/22/06 11:27 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Within the context of including children in political demonstrations or not including children in political demonstrations, would you say that the latter option involves isolating them from the world?
Why, of course not, because that would be a logical fallacy.
Quote:
Oh, come now, you know that redgreenvines was referring to political demonstrations, i.e. marching in circles with slogan-covered signs, deliberately getting arrested in order to initiate a court case to legalize drugs, or testifying to support said court case. You are intentionally broadening the scope of his comment beyond the context of his discussion.
I admit that I am able to grasp what might have been implied by his usage of the phrase "public demonstration", but, for the most part, I find it difficult to understand what he means by what he says, to be honest. There is absolutely no clear context in which his words are being placed, which is directly evidenced by the fact that he repeatedly insists that lancifer is using his children in court, none of which is apparent in lancifer's replies. I honestly think that someone's reading comprehension is skewed.
Thus, do not tell me what I knew concerning his intended meaning. When someone purposely intends on being ambiguous in one's presentation of thoughts for discussion by others, it is to be expected, and others are not to be blamed for failure to read out of context.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: Thanks Veritas for using the cleansing sponge of insight to brush the spilt salt of that fauly logic shaker off that table, a superstitious toss over the left shoulder might help as well.
i'm afraid it won't work for your brazen assumptions concerning him and his children. You follow this quotation with an in-depth analysis of why you do not feel children should take part in public demonstrations, which has resulted from your statements that lancifer is involving his children with court proceedings.
The fact remains that, even as you imply all of this is happening with this man, he has not once mentioned the slightest hint concerning public demonstrations in the context that you apparently use the word, which has been revealed by this post and nothing else. Beyond that, the only things he has mentioned involve him and some short references to court cases. Nowhere has he stated or implied that his children have been involved with these either.
As unclear as I find the context of your words to be, it is quite clear that this post of yours concerning your reasoning behind why you would not take children to public demonstrations is your manner of suggesting that lancifer is involving himself with such an action, because, otherwise, this post has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or anything contained within it, beyond your own suggestions that are not based in any actual observation.
I do not know why you would persist in defaming the character of lancifer based on nothing that he has said or implied in a forum that is centered around the discussion of ideas, but I would be glad to see such action cease. As sensitive as discussion involving children being allowed to use psychadelics naturally is, you are not helping with your onslaught of indirect accusations.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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"Some people still take their children into these political forays even though the forays likely do degenerate into the bilateral hurling of epithets or worse. some people actually leave public demonstrations having suffered dearly (and bloodily) for their beliefs, since occasionally demonstrations become skirmishes, battles, and warzones - supposedly for better causes."
As a father I have to say that it is perfectly alright and morally acceptable to introduce children to ones religion, politics, and morals. This is not brain washing. It is merely imparting an influence. Children do need guidance. They cannot make all of their own decisions while they are children because their judgment is not fully matured. My parents involved me in their thoughts on religion and politics, but I do not feel that I was indoctrinated. I have changed my political and religious views many times since then. My views are not my parents views. On some things we agree and on others we do not. I would hesitate to take children to an event where there was violence...hell, I wouldn't go myself. It is impossible to be objective in raising children so why even try. I am confident that they will mature and develop their own ideas. I am just setting an example of how to use the thought process....not an example of what to think. My oldest daughter is rapidly developing her own ideas about life, and many of them are a bit out there for me, but it is part of the growth process. I would draw the line at giving children psychedelics because I would be uncertain of the impact on their development in the context of our culture, but I would not hesitate to involve my children in any political/religious/moral event that I would deem wholesome enough for me to participate in.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
lancifer said: though i do plan on taking mushrooms through the canadian courts (with damn good lawyers). A useful example is real people having real healing journeys. Not 'your somehow irrelevant because your small'.
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lancifer said: In the 'Continuum Concept' you take your kids with you wherever you go. How are they to learn to do things in a sane manner if they are left behind?
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redgreenvines said: if he goes to court with the story as it has been put here, then the kids will be on the stand, and probably in the newspaper too. thus they will be in the line of fire in lancifer's private war.
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lancifer said: And as for going through the court system again, I do believe I said 'at a later date'. I intend on setting up a booth on Commercial Drive in Vancouver, asking for I.D. (over 18's) and selling the product I made for 4.5 years "Scooby Snacks". Since they contain cubensis I expect to get arrested and there is a research lawyer who's agreed to take on my case gratis. I don't think I'll take my kid to the park that day.
As lancifer is apparently the custodial parent, his children will almost certainly become involved in any investigation of him in connection with drug charges. Perhaps "at a later date" means after his kids are grown, but he did not specify this.
He also connected his comments (in the first quote) about taking drugs through the court system and the "useful example" of the healing journeys of real people, including kids who are not "irrelevant because they are small."
red might be reading into these comments, but I read into them in the same way. If lancifer's stated belief is that children are not to be excluded from their parent's activities (Continuum Concept), then he would want to include them in his political/legal activities. Maybe not at the park when he plans to be arrested, but likely in the court case which follows.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Veritas]
#5210080 - 01/22/06 12:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was ready to walk away from clarifying. I am so used to people not understanding me. thanks again veritas
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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I "grok" you, rgv.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Metasyn]
#5215037 - 01/23/06 06:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: gnrm23]
#5215051 - 01/23/06 06:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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& www.maps.org
& maybe read aldous huxley's very psychedelic last novel _island_ for a glimpse of a culture where moksha is not taboo...
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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LapseofReason
Wondrous Woman
Registered: 04/03/16
Posts: 115
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Metasyn]
#23163846 - 04/28/16 02:56 AM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have an opinion on this. Give your children rather YOUR experience with psychedelics and what it means for you in your development as a human being.
The value of a psychedelic experience, as far as i can tell, is the ability to make something out of its spirit in the "material" world. Children simply lack the experience to deliberately switch between the inner labyrinth and the outer one in safe ways! Let them stick with the human experience till they are ready to go to psychedelics by themselves and take the responsibility for their lives.
-------------------- What is worth knowing can´t be taught. It must be experienced.
Edited by LapseofReason (04/28/16 03:07 AM)
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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I am all for children having access to low doses of psychedelics. Remember that this culture is on them like flies on shit indoctrinating them. So what any intelligent ways must be is to undermine what is being done to them, which is a dividing them from their inherent connection with nature
Just read this sad article I read the other day which shows you just how fucked up more and more younger and younger children are in this world! (and also reflect on the magical occurrence of the presenting of this thread which gives me opportunity to share this VERY relevant article. To me this shows mysterious interconnectivity afoot)
‘Every day my son wishes he didn’t have to wake up’
[ohh, the shits dont let you read it unless you subscribe. I read it in a paper someone bought. To get gist just read the handwritten message. it is about how more and more kids are struggling to cope in this world and are thinking if suicide]
What 'treatment' would these kids be offered? THEIR drugs is what. because they would be classed 'mentally ill' by the very same oppressors causing the dis-ease But if they had access to intelligent people who feel the same way about this world, and thus would listen with respect, and allowed to take small doses of psychedelics as a way to express their emotions, feelings, flow---then this would be infinitely better IMO
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travsha
=)
Registered: 03/11/16
Posts: 112
Loc: Seattle, WA
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: zzripz]
#23164827 - 04/28/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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In South America it is super common for pregnant women and children to take Ayahuasca or San Pedro. It is seen as beneficial to their development. I know many people who grew up drinking these psychedelics through childhood and they are totally healthy and smart and normal and fine in every way.
There is also this study on Santo Daime done by Brazil. Santo Daime regularly drinks during pregnancy and they serve children often. They drink Ayahuasca their whole lives and this study shows that compared to a control group they tested the same in areas of physical health, but better in emotional, mental and social health. The study wasnt focused specifically on the effects on children, but did focus on a group of people who start drinking in the womb.
http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2012/08/new-ayahuasca-study/
So there isnt enough evidence to say it is safe.... But it seems logical that if psychedelics are good for mental and emotional health in adults they might have similar effects in children. Of course a lot of this would also depend on set and setting - doing the right amount in the right context and not an everyday thing..... Doing psychedelics in the wrong setting could obviously be a bad idea.
-------------------- www.soulremedy.org
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
LapseofReason said: I have an opinion on this. Give your children rather YOUR experience with psychedelics and what it means for you in your development as a human being.
The value of a psychedelic experience, as far as i can tell, is the ability to make something out of its spirit in the "material" world. Children simply lack the experience to deliberately switch between the inner labyrinth and the outer one in safe ways! Let them stick with the human experience till they are ready to go to psychedelics by themselves and take the responsibility for their lives.
Well said!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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