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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Icelander]
    #5192313 - 01/17/06 07:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then if you're doing 7 grams of shrooms give your kids 7 grams.





I very much doubt any child has the will to choke down 7 grams! I'm saving 'heroic' dosing for when my son turns 13 and my daughter gets her first 'flow'...but thats her mothers decision. Thanx for the welcome!
lancifer


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A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192326 - 01/17/06 07:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"The idea of 'a coming of age' is a decidedly Monotheistic idea. Once you've survived to the age of 7, in all likely hood you'll live to the age your culture tends to live to."

That is absolutely wrong. Coming of age in most traditional societies is from 14 to 18. It is NOT a monotheistic idea.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192331 - 01/17/06 07:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

There is a difference between 'drugs' and 'plants'.

But some plants contain drugs.

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Metasyn]
    #5192337 - 01/17/06 07:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I heard a story once.. (or, at least I think so..)

about this race of people.

they knew the number for everything.. (all, by the appropriate numerical code..)

so by using the numbers, they could trip out and stuff, just like we can using the shrooms..


anyways, they thought one day, "what if we teacher a child all there is to know?" like from the very beginning.. just teach all there is to know, to embodied all the numerical codes, so to be capable of anything... not having to learn and experiment for itself..

well, they did so, and the child, at the age of 11, just disappeared, ..

it is said that the child is t?here, laughing it out, still, this very day..

lol..

I am not sure if I told it or lost it or what.. so .. The End!

Edited by Gomp (01/17/06 07:19 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192340 - 01/17/06 07:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Their only 'Health care' comes from our family Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine and Naturopath, both of whom have had quite a effect on our cannabis based (ie. doesn't get you high) medicinals."

What are you going to do if they get a burst appendix or need an organ transplant? Traditional medicine has value, but to totally eschew modern medicine is irresponsible even for one that follows a shamanic path.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 239
Loc: PNW
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192351 - 01/17/06 07:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for your post Iancifer. 

When you give your children mushrooms or ayahuasca, what do you tell them about it?  Do you preface it as being a spiritual communion of sorts or do you let them learn about it themselves or what?  How does it effect them?  Are they "tripping" in the same sense that an adult would be?  More info please, I'm really curious! :smile:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192372 - 01/17/06 07:22 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Give kids LSD...nope!"

LSD and shrooms and aya are all physically harmless. Classifying one as harmful because it is synthetic is ridiculous. The action of all three substances is, while not identical, very similar. There is no logic in this rationalization.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192387 - 01/17/06 07:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Lancifer, is that your tattoo?
If it is: Awesome!

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192393 - 01/17/06 07:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Let them eat a mushroom stem on an important date in their lives with sane adults around...yep!"

There may be some value in that approach, but any adult whose idea of complete medical care is cannabis based medicines and traditional Chinese medicine is not sane.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192403 - 01/17/06 07:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

maybe a paren't job is to nurture and to demonstrate a source of dignity interest and vitality.

I think the church and schools often undermine the family by taking over that role; but they can support the family and encourage that role.

If this forum were your church and I were momentarily at the pulpit I would say to be dignified in front of your children, to judge for yourself if that includes being out in the open about drugs in any particular way.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinelancifer
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Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192410 - 01/17/06 07:33 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"The idea of 'a coming of age' is a decidedly Monotheistic idea. Once you've survived to the age of 7, in all likely hood you'll live to the age your culture tends to live to."

That is absolutely wrong. Coming of age in most traditional societies is from 14 to 18. It is NOT a monotheistic idea.




In MOST plant based cultures, 7 is the age when the boy goes off with his uncle and the shaman to find his 'totem'. 7 is the cut off point for most childhood related deaths. Hence 7 is when children become 'human'. It is about the age of 7 that most children are capable of doing basic gardening tasks unaided.
I'm not making this up off of the top of my head. Fer heaven's sake, I am learning it from my peers. I've discussed this with many people who have spent along time in Amazonian cultures as well as the cultures which still exost where i live. 7 is the 'becoming human' for the Coast Salish peoples including the Haida and their kin. My daughter's 'becoming human' ritual was attended by 2 female elders from the Coast Salish. Who, incidently have a tradtional use for mushrooms. I am working with the Haida via one of my ex's on the medicinal properties of rare polyphores.
The whole idea of 'childhood and teenagerhood' is an invention of marketers from the 40's on. Do your research! And don't confuse 'adulthood' ceremonies with 'becoming human' ceremonies. they are distinct.
If you want a list of folk whom I have corresponded with or have as friends who've researched this...pm me. I have quite a cornucopia of friends in the psychedelic community via my medpot battles with my government.
lancifer


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A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192414 - 01/17/06 07:34 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Their only 'Health care' comes from our family Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine and Naturopath, both of whom have had quite a effect on our cannabis based (ie. doesn't get you high) medicinals."

What are you going to do if they get a burst appendix or need an organ transplant? Traditional medicine has value, but to totally eschew modern medicine is irresponsible even for one that follows a shamanic path.




If they have a burst appendix, I'll take them to the hospital...duh!?
lancifer


--------------------
A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Metasyn]
    #5192427 - 01/17/06 07:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Metasyn said:
Thanks for your post Iancifer. 

When you give your children mushrooms or ayahuasca, what do you tell them about it?  Do you preface it as being a spiritual communion of sorts or do you let them learn about it themselves or what?  How does it effect them?  Are they "tripping" in the same sense that an adult would be?  More info please, I'm really curious! :smile:




I was not present for my daughters ritual, so i don't know and don't ask...it was a woman thing.  My son puked after two finger tips of ayahuasca then snored all the way through the ceremony.  It was quite a melodious snore though!  There is a researcher (two actually) doing research on this subject.  They are going to various 'psychedelic' communities and querying this very thing.  it should be interesting to see what they come up with.  Its quite a touchy subject as you can probably see from this thread.
lancifer


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A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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OfflineCUBErt
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192438 - 01/17/06 07:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yes lancifer I am also interested in the context of your children's psychedelic experiences (how much info you give them about the substance, what to expect, etc.)
At first I admit to being a little thrown off by your practices, but alot of what you say makes sense. If I am in my room and have a bad trip, who better to seek comfort/counsel from than the parents who love me? (Of course, mine would just have me committed to a mental institution). The cannabis medicine also seems very effective for treating minor ailments and more importantly, showing your kids from an early age that drugs can be used in a healthy, responsible, moderate way instead of telling them "JUST SAY NO!!"
Tell us more about your family's lifestyle, it would be interesting to hear more from somebody who has experienced this topic firsthand.


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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InvisibleVirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: lowdown
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Icelander]
    #5192440 - 01/17/06 07:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

True. :thumbup:  I wasn't very clear on that.

I meant that, for me anyway, I didn't turn to tripping to "trip", I did it to change my perspective on what had become a fucked up view of the World.  I needed to break free from my hypnosis.

If those kids grew up around people who were free from that, then they could have a truly great experience without having or needing too.  Like I did.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192443 - 01/17/06 07:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Give kids LSD...nope!"

LSD and shrooms and aya are all physically harmless. Classifying one as harmful because it is synthetic is ridiculous. The action of all three substances is, while not identical, very similar. There is no logic in this rationalization. [/quote

If its a plant, I can judge the potency. If you have a vial of LSD or a blotter the dosage can change from drop to drop or blotter to blotter. its a simple mathematical certainty that various partitions of such a dose related substance as LSD is not as precise as say...a cup of fungal tea or a standard shot of ayahuasca.
lancifer


--------------------
A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5192450 - 01/17/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Lancifer, is that your tattoo?
If it is: Awesome!




Yep! Done while luke brown (www.spectraleyes.com) was still in the tattoo biz!
lancifer


--------------------
A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5192455 - 01/17/06 07:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Let them eat a mushroom stem on an important date in their lives with sane adults around...yep!"

There may be some value in that approach, but any adult whose idea of complete medical care is cannabis based medicines and traditional Chinese medicine is not sane.




Well call me insane then. My DTM cured himself of cancer. More than i can say for most Dr.s of anything. Becuase i don't buy into the medical mafia I'm insane...very well then, hencforth i shall be lancifer the insane. RU for real?
lancifer (the insane)


--------------------
A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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Offlinelancifer
Stranger

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Beautiful B.C.
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5192482 - 01/17/06 07:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
maybe a paren't job is to nurture and to demonstrate a source of dignity interest and vitality.

I think the church and schools often undermine the family by taking over that role; but they can support the family and encourage that role.

If this forum were your church and I were momentarily at the pulpit I would say to be dignified in front of your children, to judge for yourself if that includes being out in the open about drugs in any particular way.




That's why we have shunned doing ayahuasca without our ayahuascero and don't really do all that many drugs anyhow. Its a problem for kids IF you are a 'pothead'...godsawful parenting skills in most of those...or do anything on a regular basis. heck, i was a 1,4-butanediol junkie for 4 years and still managed to raise fine kids, run a Permaculture center and the like. I share a beer with my son if he says he wants some. But i'm not a drunk, I simply like a feer beers or a glass of wine with friends.
My kids don't have bedtimes, they stay up until they decide to either crash on a lap or go to bed. its all about gauging your children. There are, for the most part NO other kids i'd give ayahuasca or shrooms to. But I'm raising my kids in a different reality when it comes down to it. I know most of the grandpappies of psychedelia and they've been taken aback at having me show up at 4 hour long lectures with a kid who knows when to be quiet and sits and listens!
If we don't start to change the way we raise kids...we are screwed. I read some of the points posted by others and i wonder if they have kids and then think they probably do, or they wouldn't bother pontificating on the subject, but they are afraid to raise kids how they really want to. There is a lot of fear. But I got over my fear fighting my federal government for the right to grow medpot. "fear is failure and the forerunner of failure" (A.Crowley)
lancifer


--------------------
A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth glancing at. O.Wilde

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Psychedelics and children [Re: lancifer]
    #5192492 - 01/17/06 07:58 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"If its a plant, I can judge the potency. If you have a vial of LSD or a blotter the dosage can change from drop to drop or blotter to blotter. its a simple mathematical certainty that various partitions of such a dose related substance as LSD is not as precise as say...a cup of fungal tea or a standard shot of ayahuasca."

I have extensive experience with shrooms, aya, and LSD...over 24 years worth. It is well known that plants vary greatly in potency from plant to plant. Many factors can affect plant substance potency. LSD can be precisely measured to exacting scientific standards...plants cannot. I do realize that in many cases plants can be safer because they are more dilute, but in the case of LSD this is immaterial due to the fact that it has no harmful PHYSICAL side effects, and it can be finely measured.

"If they have a burst appendix, I'll take them to the hospital...duh!?"

Yes, but you said their ONLY medical care was traditional Chinese medicine. To dismiss my answer in this fashion is to abandon responsibility for your earlier statement. You should have qualified that in the earlier statement.

"RU for real?"

Last time I checked I was.

What I am criticizing is the holes in your nature boy philosophy. Without consistency your approach would not appear well thought out.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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