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Some Moral Questions for Christians
    #3459079 -

As you are probably all no doubt aware, God's man in the whitehouse launched a war. I am not referring to his war against civil liberties and the remnants of the constitution, but the war claimed to be against the government of Iraq and it's master puppeteer Saddam Hussein. As governments are non-living entities, it fell upon God's soldiers to kill actual human beings... which leads me to several questions for all those claiming be Christians.

1) Do you support the President's actions?

2) Would Jesus Christ support the infliction of "collateral damage," i.e., the killing of innocent people, the destruction of hospitals, water treatment facilities and other infrastructure that serve to maintain life and health?

3) If you answered "Yes" to number 1 and "No" to number two, how do you justify it and still honestly call yourself a Christian?

4) If you answered "Yes" to number 2, could you please cite quotes from Jesus Christ to support your opinion?


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459136 -

God's man in the whitehouse launched a war


I may not be the Christian person here best equipped intellectually to respond but i'm going to give it a shot: If he(Bush? i'm not even 100% sure if he was re elected or not(I'm Canadian btw)but if he or anyone else in the white house were truly "God's man"(a follower of Christ) he wouldn't have launched a war to begin with, in fact he probably wouldn't even be in the whitehouse to begin with either a: Because he wouldn't be popular enough or b: Even if he were popular enough he would soon lose favour with people like the munitions manufacturers, flag makers, coffin builders etc. And be tossed out on his red white and blue butt. Sorry if this all sounds a little morbid :grin:

My intent was just to state my own point of view from a Christian pespective and not to argue about a lot of stuff that i really don't care about :smile:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459138 -

I'm glad you asked that. I've been wanting to hear from Christians on this issue too.

*drums fingers waiting for a response*


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What you're searching for is what's searching.

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3459153 -

Freak,

It's good to hear you say that (so to speak). Usually, here in the U.S., Christians support Bush because of his nicely calculated stance on gay marriage and abortion...never mind he started a war for proffit.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459195 -

Ooooooooh good questions for christians. after all, Bush is a christian who goes to church and says he is fighting to rid the world of evil. Yet, some think his actions are evil.

Larry King had a show on a bit back with religious leaders and Deepak Chopra. The Jewish and Muslim leaders were pretty mellow, but the Christian ones were hot heads or using the show as an evangelical pulpit to preach.

Deepak was saying that the path to peace is being peace itself.

Then some Christian Hot head chimed in blaring, "It was guns and tanks that freed the jews!"

Deepak just rolled his eyes.

That show was awesome!

Deepak was reffering to prevention in the first place. We just have to start raising peaceful, peace loving, peace oriented children who are taught to work in groups towards common goals, with common goals relative to values of an appreciation for life in Unity and harmony.

Look at how some parents in america are raising their kids, same ones who are shocked and appalled that Mid easterns are raising their kids to be terrorist bombers.

They teach their kids to compete agianst eachother where winners and loosers result. they teach them winning is good, loosing is bad. Some are moved to want it so much and be accepted by their parents they begin cheating to win as winning and being the best is all that matters.

Then there are those who hit and punish their kids saying its for their own good. All they are doing is teaching their children that when you want to get your way and loose your patience and ability to see understanding and feel compassion, YOU use violence and force.

For their own good? Sphincter says what?

Many of americas god fearing, do not spare the rod to spoil the child we are right when we stand in might and can win and beat out the other kids, parents are raising terrorist of another kind.

Don't think these kids are not self destructing in their own ways either.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3459260 -

Mr. Qlibrium, I am heartened by your response. I find that too many self described "Christians" accept their creed on the grounds that belief will get them into heaven, as opposed to becoming what their teacher was showing them. I think that in becoming more Christ like in temperament and deed they could help to change the human condition and lead the world by example.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459309 -

Yeah man, Freak is by far the coolest Christian I've ever "met". :laugh:

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Source]
    #3459549 -

Could you be good enogh to tell me exactly what his stance(s) on abortion and gay marriage are? My guess would prolly be that he's against them which would curry favor(as opposed to curry flavour :grin:) amongst the Christian contingent, although again i must reiterate that no sincere Christian would support of slaughter of innocent civilians in some other country, even in the context of war and i'm guessing this is what you meant when you used the term "collateral damage" but i could be mistaken


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459567 -

Autonomous said:
Mr. Qlibrium, I am heartened by your response.  I find that too many self described "Christians" accept their creed on the grounds that belief will get them into heaven, as opposed to becoming what their teacher was showing them.  I think that in becoming more Christ like in temperament and deed they could help to change the human condition and lead the world by example.



That is basically what i wish to do, to become more Christ like in my thoughts and deeds and set an example of genuine goodness in action, not to impress people, but merely to show by example the virtues of right living :smile:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459871 -

You have asked a very difficule question Friend.


It is not such a cut and dry issue


Hum............. I will respond a little later. I wish to pray on this and search the words of Jesus.


I can say this. Jesus teaches that while a man should turn the other cheek he also says that a man should defend himself. To turn the other cheek is not such a black and white thing. It more means that to be the first person to show the desire to not be in conclict is the wiser thing to do. Jesus was no pussy and was very angry a few times. In fact when he went into the temple and trashed the place of the money changers. The question has often been asked by me. " Was it not a law that he broke when he trashed the place ? We are told by many christian leaders to follow our country and it's laws to the tee. But as your question revels...That is not always the right thing to do. Same with Jesus trashing the temple.


Oops I said I was going to get back to you and I will.

Anyway I will be back...........


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Autonomous]
    #3459945 -

Autonomous said:
Mr. Qlibrium, I am heartened by your response.  I find that too many self described "Christians" accept their creed on the grounds that belief will get them into heaven, as opposed to becoming what their teacher was showing them.  I think that in becoming more Christ like in temperament and deed they could help to change the human condition and lead the world by example.



I want  to say that people like to paint this perfect picture of what a Christian is suppose to be. And if a Christian breaks the picture than they are not a Christian. It is a mistake both on the part of the Christan and on the part of the observer. The fact is we are all humans and make many mistakes. The Christian church as a whole is very spiritually sick that is for sure.

But I think what must be understood is that it is the duty to God to describe what a Christ like life should be. A Follower of Christ ( Christian ) tries to teach the ways of Christ. He is also very aware of the fact that he is not Christ. The gross mistake that many Christians make is to project more than they are.

People as a whole are not stupid and see right through things.

It is not Belief that get a Christian in to Heaven. It is his deeds and his ability to see he weakness as face value and be transparent to those around him. Forgiveness must be a two way street. And this is where many "Worldly" Christians get it wrong.


I am often reminded that Jesus was a very emotional being. He cried, he was angry, he went to parties, he was somewhat confused at one point, he was tempted and that in it self says a lot about the fact he was a Man and he was the son God.


So to be like Christ is to be a lot of things that many Christan just throw out the window. We are all humans and we all fail to meet the mark everyday. And it is the admittance to ourselves, the people around us and to God that makes it all OK :heart:


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3459974 -

A 6 pack Pownz> Deepak  :yesnod:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3460387 -

It is not Belief that get a Christian in to Heaven. It is his deeds and his ability to see he weakness as face value and be transparent to those around him.

Contending that "deeds and his ability to see he weakness as face value and be transparent to those around him" is what gets a Christian into Heaven is indeed a Belief.

There is no way to expand the scope of one's knowledge if one does not first accept that their own knowledge is provisional and ultimately, a set of Beliefs. Beliefs are tools we use to navigate our waking lives, helping us choose what action to take out of the immensely large pool of possible actions.

When one forgets that their chosen actions are the direct result of one's Beliefs, then that person loses the ability to move outside the parameters of his Beliefs ---- limiting him to a tiny, narrow, path of action.

Don't neglect your natural desire to explore and experience, actively redefine your Beliefs regulary, and rejoice in the boundless field of joy and feeling in which we are embedded.


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Re: Some Moral Questions for Christians [Re: chunder]
    #3460581 -

Yes in hind site I have made a small mistake. Belief goes hand in hand with what I said. It is belief that gets a man to heaven and his deeds of Goodness.

The intent of a mans heart is also very important. One can not just go around doing good for a ticket to God. He must truly be of Good nature and be willing to allow change so perfect goodness may manifest itself with in and become evident to those around you. For the rewards here and after death.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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