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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Gays and the Bible
    #2378428 -

There is great debate going on now about what gays should or should not be allowed to do socially. Those Christians against gay marriage or other gay rights frequently site the Bible as the authoritative source for their position. There are two main passages dealing directly with this:

Lev. 18:22 states the principle: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination"

The second (Lev. 20:13) adds the penalty: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Why are not pastors, priests and ministers calling for the death penalty for homosexuals instead of merely denying social union? Is it because this seems even too extreme for the extremists?

As usual, internal coherence is severely lacking.

Note to readers: Nowhere in this post did I state my position for or against; so do not read what is not there.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378461 -

I think that anyone who's against gay marriages should have a reality check, and realize that it affects their lives in no way..

What is this world coming to, that it could be such a controversial thing to let people do something that makes them happy, without having any negative effect on others?

Maybe I think too practically for religion, but it just doesn't add up. It's no different to me than going up to someone who's tripping balls and punching them in the face just because you think "drugs are bad".

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2378508 -

the entire basis for these people saying gay mariiage should not be allowed is that verse that swami posted
but it says that Gay SEX is wrong
and do these people really think the gays are gonna have any less sex if they dont get married?
the whole thing is illogical, icnredibly so
but then stupidity has always been suffiecient basis for decisions so
nothing new here
and to all the gays out there
just perform your own ceremonies
buy your rings and kiss
since when do we need the governments approval for what we do?
fuck all government restrictions on personal life

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378528 -

Not to mention all the other interesting, rediculous laws in Leviticus.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378733 -

I'm all for making my own mind up, and not for being dictated by whatever 'leader', so-called 'mentor' and/or printed word of God. Other people may choose what they want to believe, but I personally think a man kissing a woman must be equally repulsive to a closed-mineded gay person as two men kissing are to a close-minded heterosexual (fe)male.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2378770 -

I think that openly gay people tend to be more open minded in the first place, due to having to deal with all that comes with being openly gay in the US.

And the not-openly-gay people call themselves straight, so they fall into the straight close-minded category.. :tongue:

Time to change the bong water... *runs away*

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2378861 -

Just wanted to point out that the only people taking offence in another's sexuality aren't getting any themselves and/or they're close-minded.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2378897 -

I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God, but I don't know that that means gays are going to hell. Sin is sin, and supposedly, when we are guilty of one sin, we are guilty of all sin. Further, we are never free of sin. So, for any of us to condemn another for his/her sexuality is to condemn ourselves.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378907 -

What i don't find coherent is what they do, trying to change the church to suit a so called social evolution. If someone is bound to a certain religious institution is because that person wants so, it's not the church that has to change, it's people that has to open their eyes and think about how bad this pseudo absolute truths are, regarding the way of life they want.
This idea applies to gay marriage, catholic priests marriage and any other issue one might have in favor. If the religious power is divine - that is, was transmitted to certain people as some absolute teaching by whom they consider as their god - how can a mortal being try to change that teaching ? If it is absolute, it can't have any objection, either people say they have a religion and fully obey the "word" it teaches or else they lack faith. The latter form is hypocritical because they keep the "faith going" now and then, resting their minds, thinking that it's ok to go to the church one or two times every month, or they have to get married by the church, pathetic....
The thing most people don't realize regarding christianity is that, they don't need to have a specific religion to have a divine connection. Just read christ words in the bible and nothing else, take your own conclusions but always think of him as a master of wisdom and spirituality not as the commander of a bunch of priests or a soul slayer.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378914 -

ummm... didnt Jesus basically throw the old covenant out the window?

I can see why jews would not like homosexuality... but why Christians?

Christians eat pork and shrimp, right?

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2379050 -

Quote:
I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God


Seeing as God created the potential for our actions according to Christianity, and free choice, why the heck would he be surprised or offended if we do make them? I personally feel the concept of sin is a way of keeping the populace under ccontrol - but you're free to feel otherwise. Heck, like God and I could stop you if we combined powers :wink:


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2380005 -

Something that I find funny is that a constitutional amendment is in the works to ban gay marriges.  Of course, G dub is backing and pushing for this.  I swear to God, he actually said:

Quote:
The people's voice must be heard on this issue!



:lol: :lol: :lol:

As long as it's what you want, George, I'm sure the people's voice will be heard.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2380040 -

You have been sent an official warning by PM...please check and read your PM's - trendal


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Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:49 PM)

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Gorian]
    #2380353 -

You have been sent an official warning by PM...please check and read your PM's - trendal


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:50 PM)

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Gorian]
    #2380416 -

Edited out, as the situation has already been taken care of - trendal


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:59 PM)

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2380444 -

DoctorJ said:
Christians eat pork and shrimp, right?


THis is a good point. The bible has all sorts of crazyness in it. Read down the page from where it says that about gays. You'll find a passage that says, if you eat shellfish, you deserve to get rocks thrown at you until you die.

for eating shellfish.

The bible is joke. Marriage is a joke. Government is a joke.

I get these jokes, they are damn funny. I love seeing creatures come under the predominance of other creatures, for hegemony is key.

IMHO, God doesn't. He is the only one who's control can be excersized on another.

This makes him just the same as every other powerhungry megalomaniac.

Back on topic. I want to see more bloodshed on this issue. Not enough people are dying for their fundamental rights here. We need to storm tha bastilles, I say!


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We have to answer our own prayers

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2380659 -

hey so far gay marriages have a 100% success rate :thumbup:
they're talking about how gay marriages cheapen the sanctity of marriage or some BS like that when most heterosexual marriages end in divorce. uh yeah. god forbid marriage should be cheapened.


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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2380774 -

Quote: Some Legal Opinion... "I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God."

Most Christians agree, I think, that the Old Testament comprised the existing 'Word of God' before Jesus's own contribution.

I think the emphasis in the scripts is that prostitution is immoral ,as in sex without a relationship.
Other acts judged immoral include adultery, which is not specific to the male gender and also falls
under into the context of sex without a relationship.

Celibacy is encouraged for those inclined, but marriage, or 'co-habitation' is preferable to masturbation.

This is just my opinion.

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: castaway]
    #2380792 -

Multiple partners wasn't (isn't) healthy, much like poorly cooked pork, and therefore was/is discouraged.

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: castaway]
    #2382920 -

castaway said:
Quote: Some Legal Opinion... "I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God."

Most Christians agree, I think, that the Old Testament comprised the existing 'Word of God' before Jesus's own contribution.


I don't know that most Christians agree.  I don't believe that the new testament threw out the old rules.  Basically, the new testament gives us a savior since we weren't going to stop sinning in spite of the consequences.  The old rules are still basically in place.  But don't go on about the "stoning" thing, okay?  :grin:

Quote:
I  think  the emphasis in the scripts  is that prostitution is immoral ,as in sex without a relationship. 
Other acts judged immoral include adultery, which is not specific to the male gender and also falls  under into the context of sex without a relationship.


I agree.  God didn't say, in the bible, that marriage is a licensed ceremony between two people.  I suppose two people can move in together and claim they are married, and they may in fact be married by law if the state in which they live honors common law marriages.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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