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InvisibleSwami
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Gays and the Bible
    #2378428 - 02/26/04 09:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

There is great debate going on now about what gays should or should not be allowed to do socially. Those Christians against gay marriage or other gay rights frequently site the Bible as the authoritative source for their position. There are two main passages dealing directly with this:

Lev. 18:22 states the principle: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination"

The second (Lev. 20:13) adds the penalty: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."


Why are not pastors, priests and ministers calling for the death penalty for homosexuals instead of merely denying social union? Is it because this seems even too extreme for the extremists?

As usual, internal coherence is severely lacking.

Note to readers: Nowhere in this post did I state my position for or against; so do not read what is not there.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378461 - 02/26/04 09:46 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think that anyone who's against gay marriages should have a reality check, and realize that it affects their lives in no way..

What is this world coming to, that it could be such a controversial thing to let people do something that makes them happy, without having any negative effect on others?

Maybe I think too practically for religion, but it just doesn't add up. It's no different to me than going up to someone who's tripping balls and punching them in the face just because you think "drugs are bad".


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2378508 - 02/26/04 10:08 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

the entire basis for these people saying gay mariiage should not be allowed is that verse that swami posted
but it says that Gay SEX is wrong
and do these people really think the gays are gonna have any less sex if they dont get married?
the whole thing is illogical, icnredibly so
but then stupidity has always been suffiecient basis for decisions so
nothing new here
and to all the gays out there
just perform your own ceremonies
buy your rings and kiss
since when do we need the governments approval for what we do?
fuck all government restrictions on personal life


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378528 - 02/26/04 10:17 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Not to mention all the other interesting, rediculous laws in Leviticus.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378733 - 02/26/04 11:16 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I'm all for making my own mind up, and not for being dictated by whatever 'leader', so-called 'mentor' and/or printed word of God. Other people may choose what they want to believe, but I personally think a man kissing a woman must be equally repulsive to a closed-mineded gay person as two men kissing are to a close-minded heterosexual (fe)male.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2378770 - 02/26/04 11:27 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think that openly gay people tend to be more open minded in the first place, due to having to deal with all that comes with being openly gay in the US.

And the not-openly-gay people call themselves straight, so they fall into the straight close-minded category.. :tongue:

Time to change the bong water... *runs away*


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2378861 - 02/26/04 11:48 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Just wanted to point out that the only people taking offence in another's sexuality aren't getting any themselves and/or they're close-minded.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2378897 - 02/26/04 11:58 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God, but I don't know that that means gays are going to hell. Sin is sin, and supposedly, when we are guilty of one sin, we are guilty of all sin. Further, we are never free of sin. So, for any of us to condemn another for his/her sexuality is to condemn ourselves.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378907 - 02/26/04 12:00 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What i don't find coherent is what they do, trying to change the church to suit a so called social evolution. If someone is bound to a certain religious institution is because that person wants so, it's not the church that has to change, it's people that has to open their eyes and think about how bad this pseudo absolute truths are, regarding the way of life they want.
This idea applies to gay marriage, catholic priests marriage and any other issue one might have in favor. If the religious power is divine - that is, was transmitted to certain people as some absolute teaching by whom they consider as their god - how can a mortal being try to change that teaching ? If it is absolute, it can't have any objection, either people say they have a religion and fully obey the "word" it teaches or else they lack faith. The latter form is hypocritical because they keep the "faith going" now and then, resting their minds, thinking that it's ok to go to the church one or two times every month, or they have to get married by the church, pathetic....
The thing most people don't realize regarding christianity is that, they don't need to have a specific religion to have a divine connection. Just read christ words in the bible and nothing else, take your own conclusions but always think of him as a master of wisdom and spirituality not as the commander of a bunch of priests or a soul slayer.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2378914 - 02/26/04 12:02 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

ummm... didnt Jesus basically throw the old covenant out the window?

I can see why jews would not like homosexuality... but why Christians?

Christians eat pork and shrimp, right?


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2379050 - 02/26/04 12:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God



Seeing as God created the potential for our actions according to Christianity, and free choice, why the heck would he be surprised or offended if we do make them? I personally feel the concept of sin is a way of keeping the populace under ccontrol - but you're free to feel otherwise. Heck, like God and I could stop you if we combined powers :wink:


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2380005 - 02/26/04 04:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Something that I find funny is that a constitutional amendment is in the works to ban gay marriges.  Of course, G dub is backing and pushing for this.  I swear to God, he actually said:

Quote:

The people's voice must be heard on this issue!




:lol: :lol: :lol:

As long as it's what you want, George, I'm sure the people's voice will be heard.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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OfflineGorian
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2380040 - 02/26/04 04:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You have been sent an official warning by PM...please check and read your PM's - trendal


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Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:49 PM)


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Gorian]
    #2380353 - 02/26/04 06:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You have been sent an official warning by PM...please check and read your PM's - trendal


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:50 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Gorian]
    #2380416 - 02/26/04 06:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Edited out, as the situation has already been taken care of - trendal


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by trendal (02/26/04 06:59 PM)


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2380444 - 02/26/04 06:41 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Christians eat pork and shrimp, right?




THis is a good point. The bible has all sorts of crazyness in it. Read down the page from where it says that about gays. You'll find a passage that says, if you eat shellfish, you deserve to get rocks thrown at you until you die.

for eating shellfish.

The bible is joke. Marriage is a joke. Government is a joke.

I get these jokes, they are damn funny. I love seeing creatures come under the predominance of other creatures, for hegemony is key.

IMHO, God doesn't. He is the only one who's control can be excersized on another.

This makes him just the same as every other powerhungry megalomaniac.

Back on topic. I want to see more bloodshed on this issue. Not enough people are dying for their fundamental rights here. We need to storm tha bastilles, I say!


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We have to answer our own prayers


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2380659 - 02/26/04 08:04 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

hey so far gay marriages have a 100% success rate :thumbup:
they're talking about how gay marriages cheapen the sanctity of marriage or some BS like that when most heterosexual marriages end in divorce. uh yeah. god forbid marriage should be cheapened.



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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2380774 - 02/26/04 08:41 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote: Some Legal Opinion... "I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God."

Most Christians agree, I think, that the Old Testament comprised the existing 'Word of God' before Jesus's own contribution.

I think the emphasis in the scripts is that prostitution is immoral ,as in sex without a relationship.
Other acts judged immoral include adultery, which is not specific to the male gender and also falls
under into the context of sex without a relationship.

Celibacy is encouraged for those inclined, but marriage, or 'co-habitation' is preferable to masturbation.

This is just my opinion.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: castaway]
    #2380792 - 02/26/04 08:49 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Multiple partners wasn't (isn't) healthy, much like poorly cooked pork, and therefore was/is discouraged.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: castaway]
    #2382920 - 02/27/04 01:19 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

castaway said:
Quote: Some Legal Opinion... "I believe in what the bible says about homosexuality being offensive to God."

Most Christians agree, I think, that the Old Testament comprised the existing 'Word of God' before Jesus's own contribution.




I don't know that most Christians agree.  I don't believe that the new testament threw out the old rules.  Basically, the new testament gives us a savior since we weren't going to stop sinning in spite of the consequences.  The old rules are still basically in place.  But don't go on about the "stoning" thing, okay?  :grin:

Quote:

I  think  the emphasis in the scripts  is that prostitution is immoral ,as in sex without a relationship. 
Other acts judged immoral include adultery, which is not specific to the male gender and also falls  under into the context of sex without a relationship.




I agree.  God didn't say, in the bible, that marriage is a licensed ceremony between two people.  I suppose two people can move in together and claim they are married, and they may in fact be married by law if the state in which they live honors common law marriages.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2383105 - 02/27/04 02:18 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

> old rules are still basically in place. But don't go on about the "stoning" thing, okay?

So basically, we can pick and choose through the OT and decide what we want to follow of God's word and what we don't want to follow and it is all ok?

I see this as the biggest problem with Christianity... the pick and choose and ignore what we don't want to see method of faith. I'm sorry, but I don't see how we can justify our actions using one line of the bible, but ignore the next line because it doesn't agree with what we want or desire.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2383115 - 02/27/04 02:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Please do not take this personally, OK?

In the last 10 years or so I have dated mostly all divorced Christian women, many of whom were judgemental of me as a potential "permanent" partner because I am not a Christian. (The "judge not" speech from Christ is often overlooked.)

When I asked how they justified their divorce in light of Scripture, everyone had a story and an excuse as to why they broke their vows (it was the man's fault) and besides, they were still sinners and not perfect.

(Note to guys: NEVER ask the following question!) I asked many how could they justify having sexual relations with me outside of marriage as this was clearly against the Bible. ("Swami, I will sleep with you now and feel guilty later, but it is OK anyway as I am forgiven.") Seems even devout Chritians break the rules that they want to break and follow others strictly. Basically there is no consistency between belief and practice. Morality is pick & choose.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2383129 - 02/27/04 02:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

> Morality is pick & choose

Exactly. Even worse... I judge others lack of morality so that I may feel better about my own weaknesses. I mean, I only sleep with somebody while unwed, I didn't have sex with somebody of the same sex. *whew* See, I'm not so bad... but them... they are a scurge that must be ...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Seuss]
    #2383197 - 02/27/04 02:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I judge others lack of morality so that I may feel better about my own weaknesses.

You hit the hail on the nead! :eyemouth:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Seuss]
    #2384895 - 02/27/04 10:33 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> old rules are still basically in place. But don't go on about the "stoning" thing, okay?

So basically, we can pick and choose through the OT and decide what we want to follow of God's word and what we don't want to follow and it is all ok?

I see this as the biggest problem with Christianity... the pick and choose and ignore what we don't want to see method of faith. I'm sorry, but I don't see how we can justify our actions using one line of the bible, but ignore the next line because it doesn't agree with what we want or desire.




I suppose what I'm saying is that the same basic rules, such as don't kill, don't sleep around, honor your father and mother, are still valid. As Christians, we're supposed to be still obeying God's laws, but now, instead of being condemned to hell, we are forgiven for committing those sins because of Jesus' death.

There were other rules that were created, such as the rules for the Jews, that I don't think are valid any more, but I'm not positive.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Seuss]
    #2384932 - 02/27/04 10:48 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Swami: In the last 10 years or so I have dated mostly all divorced Christian women, many of whom were judgemental of me as a potential "permanent" partner because I am not a Christian. (The "judge not" speech from Christ is often overlooked.)

A Christian is supposed to be "equally yoked", meaning, marry another Christian. It's okay to marry a non-Christian, but you're not supposed to divorce the non-Christian except for things like infidelity. If the non-Christian wants a divorce, you're supposed to let them leave. You're not bound to try to make it work.

Swami: When I asked how they justified their divorce in light of Scripture, everyone had a story and an excuse as to why they broke their vows (it was the man's fault) and besides, they were still sinners and not perfect.

There are good Christians and bad Christians. What can I say. Not everyone interprets the bible correctly (including me), and a lot try to interpret it to fit with their choices and lifestyle.

Swami: (Note to guys: NEVER ask the following question!) I asked many how could they justify having sexual relations with me outside of marriage as this was clearly against the Bible. ("Swami, I will sleep with you now and feel guilty later, but it is OK anyway as I am forgiven.") Seems even devout Chritians break the rules that they want to break and follow others strictly. Basically there is no consistency between belief and practice. Morality is pick & choose.


I know the way I have thought this one out. I don't usually plan my sins and forgiveness in advance. I will plan on not doing something that is considered to be a sin, but at least if I do sin, I know I will be forgiven.

Seuss:

> Morality is pick & choose

Exactly. Even worse... I judge others lack of morality so that I may feel better about my own weaknesses. I mean, I only sleep with somebody while unwed, I didn't have sex with somebody of the same sex. *whew* See, I'm not so bad... but them... they are a scurge that must be ...


I know. I apologize on behalf of all Christians that do this. I hope I don't do that. I don't think I do. I think we are all guilty of sin, at all times, so to judge another for his sin is to judge ourselves, regardless if of a different sin. "Sin is sin".


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2385449 - 02/28/04 01:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, you christians need to chill.

Everything is relative, there ain't no "sin"

gay rights is an issue for today. Maybe it was an issue 2k years ago, but I would like to see todays issues delt with the "morality" and social consience of today.

*sigh* unfortunatly, many people are still using morality codes written oh so long ago.

*doublesigh* gay rights isn't about health anymore. It isn't about the laws of Allmighty Creator anymore. It's about personal freedom. Like oh so many other controversial issues, opponents having no arguments except "I don't like it"

GET OVER YOURSELVES!


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2385470 - 02/28/04 01:12 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I don't care, personally, how people want to live their lives.  I am also, unfortunately, or unfortunately, not God.  :grin:

I am just saying what the bible says, and what I believe in.  But I also said that I don't think gay people are going to hell, and if it's sin, to be gay, then I am guilty of the same sin.

So, I don't think I'll be getting over myself any time soon.  double :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Frog]
    #2386165 - 02/28/04 08:59 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Gays and the bible..

Well the bible hints at the possibility that God does not like M/M intercourse.
Which is to say: did Laurel and Hardy go to Hell because they slept in the same bed in their hilarious 1930s flicks? When books were re-written for centuries by religious officials with a HUGE political agenda in a language the people could not understand, how can anyone guarantee the purity of a given psalm or verse? When people interpret interpretations its made too easy to justify yourself.

My grandparents spoke in tongues as the church forced them to channel Latin hymns from otherwise arguably guilt-tripping hymnbooks: for all they knew they could be invoking the devil :eek:

Personally I read some Christian psalms here, some Islamic sura's there, read parts of the Hindu Gita and flirted with Buddhism.
For myself I have found the sieve that can be applied to all Good/Evil duality religions:

*****THE MORE SUCCESSFUL AN ACT IS IN PLEASING AND ADVANCING YOURSELF, THOSE AROUND YOU AND HUMANITY ITSELF FOR THE LONGEST TIME ACHIEVABLE, THE HIGHER THE GOOD AND MORE IN ACCORDANCE TO GOD'S WILL IT IS*****

If you put the holybooks in this sieve and vigorously shake it, all sorts of religious individual dogmas stay behind. The finest stuff coming through however makes boundaries between religions melt, unifying them to a closed logic where they all are in accordance.

Suddenly "Quit doing your nasty shit and do like we say or some red guys will wrap you in barbed wire and use you as a soccerball for all eternity.. WITH HOOVES!! :mad2:"
gets filtered out and you're left with:
"You reap what you sow, so better accept things as they come and be kind for each other and that awful feeling you have will heal and all of you will feel better. Hey: all of us Love and Admire you up here, we see its harsh but know we will wipe the tears from your eyes and that we'll bliss your soul when you played your part down there. Trust us :heart:"

Please take said statements and think which Divine Parents you rather had in the all-encompassing Household, in charge of the Cosmic Hardware & Software Co.
No matter if you get your OS patches & updates from science,  spirituality, down-to-earth.. You know you want what feels right for you.

If you expose a group of people to this filtered dogmatics, they will be met with far less objections from the religious of most denominations and skeptics alike, as these ideals unify and are wholesome biologically.

The trend in this filtrate is the force of ACCEPTANCE, going with the flow so to speak, treating others how you like to be treated yourself, deserving reward, cultivating higher respect for the self, others and the universe and moving towards the GOOD FEELING, which most religious people write with just one letter O.

The opposite side is the force of OPPOSITION, resisting the flow, the things that feel bad and make others feel bad, things percieved to be detrimental, punishment deserved, change or meet my wrath or eternal damnation. In one translation I read "Satan" means "The One who Opposes, the Antagonist".


I try to live in accordance to the filtered stuff, because it feels right to me. Even when tripping you know where a choice towards ACCEPTANCE or OPPOSITION tends to lead you :wink:

What seems wrong with Gayness? Well, if you don't like meat you either eat fish or try to become a vegetarian :grin: And folks who want to force gay sex onto you are the same type who want to force straight sex on somebody, so thats sex crime and stands apart from sexual alignment.

Another objection-thing is the prospect of the  sight of two guys groping eachother in public while trying to suck on each others tonsils. That has nothing to do with Gayness but with plain common decency. I'm not pleased if any couple publicly did that but don't condemn that or feel bad on it. Gay or Straight people making out in public tend to come from very morally/sexually repressive households
who broke free of being pruned like a bonsai tree when groing up.
So being confronted with, or committing public sexual acts is independent of gender preference and rather an individual morality thing proportional to the degree of moral restriction in the upbringing and the degree of (dis)agreement of the people raised that way.
(I have yet to see public three-way Bisexual french kissing :tongue2: which would in fact brighten my day by the unusualness of the sight of it)

The usual objections are the disapproval of the sights and sounds of homosexuality :wink: and the possibility of inappropriate behavior (which stands apart from it) as well as the moral conviction that it is NOT RIGHT.

Apply the sieve and voila: Objecting to witnessing the existance of something that looks (or sounds) not like you want it, something that does not victimize and hints at things that possibly take place between consenting adults while applying the same standards as to the majority, and feeling  :sad: and that it is NOT RIGHT...
Well: that is the force of OPPOSITION at work within you and it goes against the near universal core uniting the major religions.

If you object to seeing a jolly guy, two same-sex friends holding hands or kissing just like equally decent/discrete M/F lovers do, two newly-wed butch brides hurling huge bouquets into a crowd that appears to be a female rugby team :lol:, two effeminate guys parenting kids.. If you see a biker punk with a padlock through his nose, or somebody of another skin color or cultural way of dressing, two mormons on a two-seat bicycle or a handicapped person...

When you see somebody and the sight of that person makes you feel unpleasant or the mere sight gives you moral signals that it is "not right".. you are resisting the flow. You are in OPPOSITION. And like the sifted religious dogma and the Psychedelic Experience FAQ  predict: the more you resist, refuse and oppose the flow, the more you head towards a bad trip, and in fact *the deeper you already live in a bad trip*. If the sight of anything not actually victimizing those involved makes you feel victimized, the thing that obstructs their and YOUR happiness lies within you and cannot be blamed on the people looking or acting neutral/positively like they do.
If you pop a pill it is NO religous leader's, cop's or politician's business to prevent that. If you toss it in somebodies drink you may be condemned morally, legally and politically because you victimize somebody, no matter how pleasant the pill may turn out to be.

When you're hopelessly in love it seems there are fewer ugly people, when high on ecstasy everybody is either a bright shining star or one eclipsed by their confusion, doubts and pains and when on a bad trip or depressed the world has few redeeming features.

Gays and the bible? How about Religion and desperately opposing Change and Diversity?



.


--------------------
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Offlinecastaway
Isanybodyreallyhome?
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Asante]
    #2386187 - 02/28/04 09:30 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Actualy I find the sight of couples kissing in public romantic...I suppose that could be one of the reasons our creative writers like Hemmingway and his contemporaries prefered to live in other countries.

Couples necking are common on the piers on the Med, or any part of Europe that I have been to, but it's something that's strangely lacking in my recall of my American experiences on the intra-coastal.

~Limited perceptions are the hazards of cloistered lives~


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: castaway]
    #2386358 - 02/28/04 12:30 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I imagine that if people were kissing people on the streets a lot, it would create a loving vibe and it would spread... people might focus in the moment more and appreciate love a bit more or somehthing.. *shrugs*

I'm just imagining that people walking down the street vaugely indifferent and seperate from everyone else helps to spread that kind of vibe to others and that can manifest in other areas as well... maybe if we had people kissing and people smiling and so on and etc, walking down the street would be more lively and more of an experience and that could radiate into other areas of life for more and more people...

We need hippies playing acoustic guitars on sidewalks! I volunteer! :grin:

Oh, and if this seems off of the main topic, it isn't. It is living by example.. I think it is personal freedom and personal choice and I don't judge either way, so just forget about it and let people go about their business. Their isn't an issue if people don't create one. :lol:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2389808 - 03/01/04 12:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCleverName
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: silversoul7]
    #2389829 - 03/01/04 12:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

could jesus have been gay? think about it...


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: CleverName]
    #2389945 - 03/01/04 02:36 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What???  How could a single 33-year-old man who hangs out with 12 other single men possibly be gay?! :smirk:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Frog]
    #2390042 - 03/01/04 03:22 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: ]
    #2393659 - 03/02/04 03:49 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend said:
Quote:

offensive to God




You've got to be kidding me  :shake:



What?  What's so hard to believe about a God who wiped out all the first-born of Egypt being offended by two of his creations having anal sex?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinewietstocker
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2394554 - 03/02/04 12:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

These people site the bible like it's some kind of scientific journal. I could write down a bunch of fairytales and personal philosophy and call it a religion as well. I am completely at a loss of words for these same people that refuse to accept the extremely *convincing* scientific evidence for evolution. Instead placing their beliefs on some great ark in a big hurricane just because there are a few passages in the bible that say it. I wish these people would take a closer look at ALL of the bible so they'd see some of the other silly passages. But if that happened I suppose they might lose their faith. Apparently its better to have some beliefs, even if they are blind.


--------------------
Echoes


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OfflineGorian
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: wietstocker]
    #2396603 - 03/02/04 09:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wietstocker said:
These people site the bible like it's some kind of scientific journal. I could write down a bunch of fairytales and personal philosophy and call it a religion as well. I am completely at a loss of words for these same people that refuse to accept the extremely *convincing* scientific evidence for evolution. Instead placing their beliefs on some great ark in a big hurricane just because there are a few passages in the bible that say it. I wish these people would take a closer look at ALL of the bible so they'd see some of the other silly passages. But if that happened I suppose they might lose their faith. Apparently its better to have some beliefs, even if they are blind.




We think alike.


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Offlinekb73
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Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2397189 - 03/03/04 05:00 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

There's also:

12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Romans 13:12-14

8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10

12"Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 1 Corinthians 6:12-14

17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 1 Corinthians 6:17-19

I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged. 2 Corinthians 12:21

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions Galatians 5:19-20

5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. Colossians 3:5-6

2For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, 1 Thessalonians 4:2-4

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

20The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Revelation 9:20-22

7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 22:15


--------------------
WARNING chronicshroom will rip you off! Don't trade with him! I sent him 20 spore syringes and he never sent me anything.


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: Swami]
    #2397281 - 03/03/04 07:08 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I'm of the opinion that, if you are not a Christian, you can marry who you choose... It's neither my, or the U.S. Gov'ts business.

However, if you are a Christian, you can't really pick and choose the bits you want to accept (though lots of folks do...)

I do not believe that gay people cannot embrace the Christian faith... I just believe that celibacy is required.

I don't really believe that gay sex is much different in the eyes of God than 'ordinary' fornication (if you wanna be a Christian and you're not married, you're supposed to keep it in your shorts too...) Certainly, 'straight' folks are lucky in that most of us have a forseeable outlet (or inlet... depends which way you're looking I suppose) for our desires.


--------------------
Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: kb73]
    #2397876 - 03/03/04 12:19 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

there's also:

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean. - Matthew 15:11

and

Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean. - Mark 7:15

which, properly interpreted, means that gay sex is ok... as long as you swallow.


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2398073 - 03/03/04 01:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What if someone does the walrus on you?


--------------------
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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Gays and the Bible [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2398227 - 03/03/04 02:11 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Walrus?.... nevermind... I don't even want to know...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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