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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: Orthopox]
    #12159511 -

AngryPhil said:
learningtofly said:
Reproduction only applies to organisms.

Rocks, for example, do not reproduce.


The universe is more complicated than an organism and a shit ton more complicated than a rock. So there's a reasonable chance that it would be more comparable to things on the complicated end of the spectrum.


Are you saying that the more complicated something is the more probable it is that it reproduces?
Orthopox said:
learningtofly said:
Reproduction only applies to organisms.

Rocks, for example, do not reproduce.


When a rock breaks in half, it is reproduction.


Not really.


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Re: Something to ponder [Re: learningtofly]
    #12159536 -

learningtofly said:
Are you saying that the more complicated something is the more probable it is that it reproduces?


No, I'm saying that because it is complicated, we cannot rule out the possibility that it reproduces.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12159799 -

No possibilities can be ruled out. But as I pointed out at the beginning, fantasies are a dime a dozen.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12159823 -

Icelander said:
No possibilities can be ruled out. But as I pointed out at the beginning, fantasies are a dime a dozen.


Just out of curiosity Icelander, is there a theory of the origin of the universe that you consider most likely?


--------------------
The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12159903 -

Well I haven't spent much time trying to figure it out since I realized no one really can know at this time at least.

So I'm fine with the big bang as far as that goes. At least someone there is trying do do some experiments and making a plausible guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12160341 -

Quote:
Just out of curiosity Icelander, is there a theory of the origin of the universe that you consider most likely?


miracles can never be explained thats why they are called miracles


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: soldatheero]
    #12160639 -

And why there is no proof of there existence.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12160657 -

hahah


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Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: zoomfan]
    #12161069 -

hm. actually by miracle I mean existence because in fact existence is a miracle


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Edited by soldatheero (03/07/10 10:14 PM)

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: soldatheero]
    #12161141 -

Existence is miraculous only because we don't understand it. And no one knows if we may or not ever understand it. Many things in the past were called miracles until we discovered  what was actually causing the phenomena. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (03/07/10 10:31 PM)

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12161227 -

no I say in honesty that I see existence as a mircle simply because it is instead of is not


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: soldatheero]
    #12161363 -

And someone sees jesus in a taco shell and that's their miracle. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12161391 -

nahh you dont get it.. simple the fact anything exists what-so-ever is incredible.. what you don't agree?


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: soldatheero]
    #12161477 -

It might be incredible, awesome and stupendous but a miracle? Of that I have certain doubts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12162771 -

It depends on your definition of a miracle I guess. Since everything we experience is a direct result of existence, then if we have ever experienced a miracle, existence itself must be a miracle. If existence is not a miracle, then no aspect of existence is a miracle.

That something is a miracle is a perceived quality. Perception exists only in the mind. Whether or not something is a miracle depends on the perceiver. Nothing has inherit qualities. Everything simply is what it is. Anything beyond that is created in the mind.


--------------------
The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12162778 -

"A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature. "

This imo is how most define the word.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12162843 -

Icelander said:
"A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature. "

This imo is how most define the word.


Without existence, the only laws of nature would be the laws of the nature of nonexistence, or nothing. The laws of the nature of nothing would require that there not be anything. The universe is something, and thus would be an interruption of nothingness. If nothing existed before this universe, I would consider it a miracle according to the provided definition.

However, if existence has always existed, and the universe is a result of some set of laws we don't understand, then I would not consider it a miracle by that definition. It would simply be a result of the nature of existence.

So again it comes down to individual beliefs. It is just a word though.


--------------------
The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: Something to ponder [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12162852 -

Quote:
However, if existence has always existed, and the universe is a result of some set of laws we don't understand,


its not even the result of anything it just is its own result. What you think just because its always existed means it can't still be considered a miracle? It exists instead of not existing and there is no real reason it just is


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to ponder [Re: soldatheero]
    #12162862 -

It exists instead of not existing and there is no real reason it just is

You can't know this. Or should I say, by what means do you know this to be true?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something to ponder [Re: Icelander]
    #12162915 -

because agian why should something have sprung from absolutely nothing? Its impossible so the fact there is something has to be a miracle because nothing caused it, it just is


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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