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OfflineWhiteRussian
The Silence islouder then youthink
Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 441
Loc: In your head :P
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103200 - 09/07/04 09:37 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

so whats the problem?


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
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Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Todcasil]
    #3103285 - 09/07/04 10:01 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Yes, the subject is a mirror reflecting the object which is a mirror reflecting the subject...

To be honest, subjectively my eternal fate feels cold, empty and lonely.  Just as the eternal fate of the universe apears to be cold, empty and lonely.

Lately though, I am comming to realize that the universe is whatever I make it to be.  This seems to be the lesson thrown at me from all corners of my life.  If I can find harmony in myself, there will be harmony in the world.  I know this probably sounds megalomaniacal but hey, it's MY universe.  I AM the only observer here  :wink: !


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineWhiteRussian
The Silence islouder then youthink
Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 441
Loc: In your head :P
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103555 - 09/07/04 11:04 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

To be honest, subjectively my eternal fate feels cold, empty and lonely. Just as the eternal fate of the universe apears to be cold, empty and lonely.

Lately though, I am comming to realize that the universe is whatever I make it to be. This seems to be the lesson thrown at me from all corners of my life. If I can find harmony in myself, there will be harmony in the world. I know this probably sounds megalomaniacal but hey, it's MY universe. I AM the only observer here  !

There you go :wink:

the answer is always in from of you, you just have to accept it

be safe


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OfflineTodcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Registered: 08/09/99
Posts: 16,381
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3103693 - 09/07/04 11:36 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

good conclusion source..

peace & understanding are key


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3103746 - 09/07/04 11:47 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Well what if what you make out the universe to be for yourself is only an illusion?
What if the universe really is awaiting for a cold and lonely death with no meaning to it? this would mean Source is hiding the truth fom himslef by making it seem what it isn't...just a thought...his problems have been bothering me since the last time i shroomed, these questions are eating me from the inside, and i'm real skeptic on getting all the answers when you die.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103769 - 09/07/04 11:54 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

I think the Universe is just breathing.
Maybe it doesn't expand forever.. eventually it reaches critical mass, like all things in nature, and reverses polarity. Expand, pause, Contract. Repeat for eternity?

At least you would hope that the infinitely omniscient consciousness that is all-that-is, would be focused towards life and love and evolution and learning and wisdom and progression. In order to achieve that progression you need movement an exchanges of energy to learn from.

There is a natural balance of the yin and the yang, that is consistent from the smallest molecule to the largest universe. This balance is in our own breathing and energy system, and in the forces of nature.

The universe does not expand forever, and I don't think the Big Bang was the beginning of it, rather, a result of it. Big Bangs happen. It will expand, and then it will contract until it is one again. Then it will expand again.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Todcasil]
    #3103792 - 09/08/04 12:01 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineDoctorJ
"Nazi, Satanist Anti-Christ"
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103806 - 09/08/04 12:04 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

first of all, I think the 'big crunch' theory has not been borne out by observation: If there were going to be a red shift, it would have already happened by now.

second, even if the universe went in and out, if it were to go out and then back in, much data would be lost. It would be a tragedy.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3103819 - 09/08/04 12:07 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

data? I'm talking about the perpetual creation and destruction of the cosmos

it would probably take place over a reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallly long time if that wouldn't make it such a tragedy.


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103823 - 09/08/04 12:07 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah, I agree. The oscillating universe is a very satisfying idea...consistent with metaphyisical ideas about God, creation and destruction. But alas, according to cosmologists the evidence is pointing toward the open, ever expanding universe.

Not that they might not be wrong, or at least not privy to all the secret forces of the universe.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103852 - 09/08/04 12:14 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Either way, we can be content in the fact that life kicks ass.


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Offlinedeff
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103940 - 09/08/04 12:31 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

True dat :cool:


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OfflineTodcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: deff]
    #3104517 - 09/08/04 02:17 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

amen brudda


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/18/01
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3104804 - 09/08/04 03:11 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

My current pet theory is that our Universe is a bubble, or deformation, on the surface of a higher-dimensional membrane. I came to this idea after reading the book The Fabric of the Cosmos, by Brian Green.

The membrane itself consits of the prime energy source, what I would refer to as God. I will not choose an exact number of dimensons present, though it is probably at least 10. All dimensions are curled in upon themselves with diameters smaller than the plank length. The exact energy level of any given point on the membrane jitters on a quantum level. This energy is tied to the only force of nature in existence, which I will also refer to as God, and which "contains" all of the known fundamental forces in this Universe (and possibly others) in a supersymmetrical configuration. One of these forces, on its own, causes rapid expansion of dimensions, it makes them uncurl to a certain degree. Now as the energy level of these forces is jittering on a quantum level, there are always tiny quantum regions that undergo rapid expansion (what cosmologists refer to as "inflation") all over the place. A "region" is a section of membrane where the instantaneous energy level jiggles above a threshold value momentarily at every point in the region. Welcome to the Multiverse.

When a region undergoes inflation, the total area of the region at start of inflation determines the ammount of energy present in the region. From the moment the region undergoes inflation until the moment the region collapses back into supersymmetry it can be considered a closed system. So all energy present at the moment of inflation is the only energy available for the inflating "universe". This in turn determines how much matter will condense out of the energy, should conditions be right in the universe for this to happen. Now, the exact state of the region at the moment of inflation determines everything about the internal characteristics of the universe. The exact state of the region depends on the quantum jitters which are, as quantum things go, completely random. This means that each universe which undergoes inflation will be randomly different.

In our Universe, the inflation field was over the threshold value in four of the dimensions available, so we have four large extended dimensions today. All the remaning dimensions still exist in our Universe but remain curled up beyond the Plank length. Cosmologists often wondered how gravity ever got a foothold in the early universe. If all space expanded equally at first, then the matter distribution throughout the space should have been constant, giving gravity no centers to form clumps of matter in. Well as inflation began, the energy levels throughout the region (ie: throughout each dimension) was not equal. It was jittering in a quantum fashion, so each point was slightly different in energy content. As the dimensions inflated, these ULTRA microscopic irregularities were smeared out as they, too, inflated. So when inflation was finished (only a fraction of a second in "our time" after it started) space was NOT uniform, but had regions with higher or lower mass density. This allowed stars and everything else to form.

The single force that exists in the Multiverse, which I called God, went through different breaks in symmetry as the Universe inflated. The single force cannot exist below a certain energy density, so as the energy of the Universe smeared out (lowering its density) the force broke apart into the various forces of nature we know of today (and the ones we don't know of).

Each universe inflates and collapses in a brief instant as far as the membrane is concerned. Time as we know it does not exist in this state, so there is no real analogy I can make. I like to think of a pot of boiling water. If you watch the bubbles they form and collapse rapidly, but imagine if the "flow of time" inside each bubble was incredibly fast, so that in the brief instant you saw it exist many billions of years "happened" inside the bubble. Of course the membrane (God) either is not conscious and so can't care or see, or is completely beyond Time and so doesn't have to "watch" our universe unfold. The other thing that the quantum jitters mean is that all possibilities for universes do exist on the membrane.

I think our Universe will "pop" at some point, reguardless of whether or not it continues to expand "forever". At some point the energy level of some critical field will drop below a threshold and the Universe will collapse back into the membrane.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: trendal]
    #3105046 - 09/08/04 03:50 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

The Second Law indicates that as a closed system it will eventually reach a state of stasis with rock and low level radiation dominating. Then it will remain as such for eternity.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: trendal]
    #3105053 - 09/08/04 03:51 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

the big bang is a logical fallacy.

if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? MORE UNIVERSE.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: BleaK]
    #3105092 - 09/08/04 03:58 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

The problem is that the Universe is finite, so expanding into more is not an option.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: BleaK]
    #3105427 - 09/08/04 05:04 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? MORE UNIVERSE.

No. It's hard to picture what it means for space itself to be expanding. The concept of true nothingness may be even harder to grasp, but it is at the heart of the issue here. Outside of spacetime there is nothing. Spacetime itself may be attatched to some other higher dimensional space, I guess, but it's still useless to talk about "outside" of our Universe as it is almost certain that we could not conceive of such a state of existence. No time, or maybe several temperal dimensions...not necessarily 3 spatial dimensions. I doubt human consciousness is able to image such concepts yet.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: trendal]
    #3105472 - 09/08/04 05:12 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Unless the universe itself was one of many other bubbles within a greater scale of void. Relatively speaking, outside the earth is nothingness until another planet or star is reached. The same is true with atoms, molecules, ect. It seems to be the one thing in common with everything, that it is composed primarily of nothingness, and the something it is composed of itself is further mostly composed of nothingness. Almost like a fading hologram.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3105856 - 09/08/04 06:23 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
The problem is that the Universe is finite, so expanding into more is not an option.




how is the universe finite?

nothingness, by definition, DOESNT exist. ITS NOTHING, nothing but a concept anyway.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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