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OfflineSource
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Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe
    #3101808 - 09/07/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Assuming that the big bang origin of the universe is true, what are the spiritual implications of such a beginning...and its ending?

Is what we conceive of as pure consciousness also a product of the big bang (i.e. 'the light that shines in the darkness')? If so, all that we are has a begining and it will have an end. Having lost my identity as a single organism and realizing myself to be the universe itself, I find that I am somewhat troubled by the idea that the universe may be open...expanding forever...galaxies receeding beyond sight of one another...burning up the last remnants of fuel...matter decaying over the course of aeons...turning darker and colder...expanding forever at an exponentially increasing rate...no more stars...no more planets...no more life...no more show...forever and ever and ever.

This is, according to cosmologists, the most likely scenario for our universe. A new force has been discovered which is accelerating the expansion of our universe. This may mean that the universe will not collapse again into a big crunch...will not poise itself for yet another creation cycle. The future looks infinitely cold, dark and above all lonely. An infinitely long nightmare from which God will never wake.

Does this trouble you?

I'm kind of holding on to hope that we will discover that there is still enough dark matter in the universe to halt the expansion and bring it all together again. But it may be a vain hope.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineStinky
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3101837 - 09/07/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Fortunately, there is so much that we don't know. I mean, maybe all the calculations that astronomers do right now are based off of illusions and we are completely wrong about the true nature of the universe.


By the way, I believe this is my first post.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3101841 - 09/07/04 03:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i try not to let things like that bug me. what comes comes, what doesnt doesnt. if somthing is gonna wipe us out so be it. if what our culture believes in turns out to be false, wouldnt be the first time.

in reality how many of us can say for sure that any of it is real? have we ever left the planet...we really have no way of knowng there is a space. or maybe its one big truman show.

man im tired stoned and spaced out, hope it made sense.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offline4369875
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: kadakuda]
    #3102612 - 09/07/04 11:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well look at it this way. We exist. People say that we can't even prove our own existance, and such. Even if this is one big dream the fact that it is a dream is still something, we are here. No matter what happens, even when space and time are gone, we existed (thats kind of a mindblow thing to say if you think of time not existing, but stick with me). But just that fact gives me a little comfort, but I don't know if it will help you.


--------------------
"I believe that if people would learn to use LSD's vision-inducing capability more wisely, under suitable conditions, in medical practice and in conjunction with meditation, then in the future this problem child could become a wonderchild."
- - Albert Hofmann


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102652 - 09/07/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The 'cold death' theory disturbs me very much.  Honestly, I think that is the purpose of conscious life: to save the universe.  If we can figure out how to control gravity, we can keep the universe from expanding too fast.  We can save stellar evolution. 

too bad everyone is more interested in watching game shows where they make you eat bugs.  Oh well.  Its just the universe, right?  :nonono:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3102738 - 09/07/04 12:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:that is the purpose of conscious life: to save the universe. If we can figure out how to control gravity, we can keep the universe from expanding too fast. We can save stellar evolution.




Wow, that's a trippy thought. I don't doubt that it's possible for us to halt the expansion, but I would venture to guess that we would have to be able to get 'behind the scenes' of the universe in order to do it.

I read a story similar to that idea. The main protagonist 'victor' travels to the center of the universe at the end of time and discovers all the avatars (Buddha, Christ, etc.), composed of all thier followers, engaged in a plan to keep the universe at this optimal state fluctuating between the disolvement of all individuality in the 'big crunch' and a step away where individuality returns. Things go badly.

Doesn't really fit now if there isn't going to be a crunch but the theme of controlling the universe is similar!

In any event, I'm happy to have found someone sympathetic with my uneasyness of all this 'cold death' stuff.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (09/07/04 12:29 PM)


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102746 - 09/07/04 12:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

dude if we could figure out gravity we would have the whole universe on lockdown.

I really do think its our purpose. Like when a farmer has kids, and those kids go on to tend the farm when their father gets too old. God is Dead. But he gave us everything we need to survive, and maintain his creation. All we have to do is reach out and grab it.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: 4369875]
    #3102747 - 09/07/04 12:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks! What bothers me is that I feel that I myself am tied to the fate of the universe.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102756 - 09/07/04 12:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

arent we all?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3102781 - 09/07/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you think of the universe as a simulation program, maybe it's possible to somehow access the code that is running the program. That way rather than manhandling the universe via outer technology, we could control it at its source. The effects of such a tinkering would be immediate and span the entire universe!

Lets do it.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102784 - 09/07/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I dunno... maybe I just don't understand anything concerning the nature of higher dimensions, and I'm completely stuck in the sense of space (although the sense of time can be altered rather easily), but I still don't grasp the thought of nothing beyond our universe... our universe is expanding into what? It still fucks with my head SO fucking much to think about..... perhaps there are other "levels" that this universe is merely a part of, or something... otherwise, I remain confused... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3102788 - 09/07/04 12:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
arent we all?




Undoubtedly, but most people don't realize it. They just figure 'oh well, by then I'll be dead.'


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102792 - 09/07/04 12:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

ahhh, "the virtue of selfishness" :rolleyes:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3102830 - 09/07/04 12:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I still don't grasp the thought of nothing beyond our universe... our universe is expanding into what? It still fucks with my head SO fucking much to think about..... perhaps there are other "levels" that this universe is merely a part of, or something... otherwise, I remain confused...




Yeah, don't try too hard. I get a dizzy feeling when I try to comprehend the incomrehensible. There must be at least one more spacial dimension into which the universe is curving (and expanding?) as evidenced by the 'fact' that light bends around gravity. Light follows the curve of the universe into the fourth spacial dimension!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Stinky]
    #3102860 - 09/07/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hey! Thanks for the honor of your first post! Yeah, it may turn out that they are wrong about it. Still, I think it is interesting to consider the implications on the psyche as we move historically from being the center of a universe created six thousand years ago awaiting judgement, to being a planet revolving around a star at the center of the universe, to being a solar system swirling along the outer edge of a galaxy at the center of the universe, to being a somewhat typical solar system amidst hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy which is itself only one of trillions of galaxies in a universe with no center that is possibly expanding forever. (This is following the developement of western thought only)

Real or not, mankind has definitely been psychologically dethroned by science!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (09/07/04 01:01 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102911 - 09/07/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Source said:
There must be at least one more spacial dimension into which the universe is curving (and expanding?) as evidenced by the 'fact' that light bends around gravity.  Light follows the curve of the universe into the fourth spacial dimension!




An interesting thought. :wink:

Perhaps it could be thought that there is a dimension encompassing all other dimensions, and that it can control the expansion and the contractions? Or something.... I'm in w-a-y over my head.  :shocked:  :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe [Re: Source]
    #3102968 - 09/07/04 01:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Assuming that the big bang origin of the universe is true, what are the spiritual implications of such a beginning...and its ending?

Is what we conceive of as pure consciousness also a product of the big bang (i.e. 'the light that shines in the darkness')? If so, all that we are has a begining and it will have an end. Having lost my identity as a single organism and realizing myself to be the universe itself, I find that I am somewhat troubled by the idea that the universe may be open...expanding forever...galaxies receeding beyond sight of one another...burning up the last remnants of fuel...matter decaying over the course of aeons...turning darker and colder...expanding forever at an exponentially increasing rate...no more stars...no more planets...no more life...no more show...forever and ever and ever.

This is, according to cosmologists, the most likely scenario for our universe. A new force has been discovered which is accelerating the expansion of our universe. This may mean that the universe will not collapse again into a big crunch...will not poise itself for yet another creation cycle. The future looks infinitely cold, dark and above all lonely. An infinitely long nightmare from which God will never wake.

Does this trouble you?"

Why should this trouble you, if your the universe, then your infinite, and you see everything the way it is, so you would understand why your expanding, and you only then know its the best feeling in the world, (your thinking in a 3 dimentionsal sense) :wink:


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103080 - 09/07/04 02:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

perhaps every single point on "the map" is the center of the universe, if it is indeed infinite.

i think cosmologists and astronomers are contributing to the grand illusion of space.

i hold by the idea that spce is an illusion, correspondance is an illusion and that time is an illusion (among other illusions).

i dont believe space can be infinitly expanding into nothing... The Void does exist, but not outside the universe, it exists just behind it.

answer? anything scientists tell me about the universe will not trouble me.

as far as being tied to the fate of the universe... we are... but the universe is infinite. as are we. so i am not worried about our connected fate. i trust in the universe....

and as much as i would like to become the hero archetype, travel space find the knowledge to save the universe and battle the void for control... i know thats not whats going to happen, because it doesnt need to happen.

i commend cosmologists for their imagination and creativity, as i commend all of you folks here as well...

but i just dont believe that is the case.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineSource
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Todcasil]
    #3103159 - 09/07/04 02:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I cannot write off the universe as only an illusion although the way we perceive the universe may be an illusion (through the belief that we are seperate from it). Even if it WERE an illusion, with no baring on the eternal, I think it would still be relevant to pay attention to what the illusion is showing. And to the best of our ability at observation it is showing us a nightmarish end...eternal and dark.

It may be that the universe shows us what we are preconcieved to see. So the fact that we are seeing this 'cold death' may speak more about ourselves as a single species than about the universe 'out there'.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Univ [Re: Source]
    #3103192 - 09/07/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

your second statement seems beautiful to me...

we are seeing what is inside us. if we feel cold and dead, we will see cold and dead.

i just cant see that...

also... you are correct... it is the way we percieve the universe, not the universe itself. i said that the ideas of space corrrespondance and time were illusions, so i am in agreeance with you.

and to what degree does that help you to see what you beleive might be the end?

does that let you know you are seeking sprituality/enlightenment.zen/good times for no reason?

you say it best "what youre searching for is whats searching".

you are a mirror of the universe my friend. thnik about that... or not. at death youll get all your answers.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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