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Invisiblekaiowas
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the big bang, origin of existence, it's implications & god
    #2679289 - 05/14/04 07:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i had posted this is a thread earlier, but I, for some reason or another...feel compelled to ask a couple of questions.

we have a universe that we live in...now we can go about it in a couple of ways, and no...I am not saying these are the ONLY ways...

1) there is a source to this universe

2) there isn't a source, this universe has always existed.

let's look at option one for a second. we have this theory of the big bang, but the fundamental question that is still left unanswered is this one...sure there is a crap load of energy that exploded...but where did it come from? where is the source of all of this energy? does logic say that everything must have a beinning? if so...where does this source come from? the energy HAD to have come from somewhere...sure it collapsed in on itself and all of that, but where did it first appear? this is something that science cannot explain.

let's look at option 2. this universe is eternal, existence has always been. is this logical? to say energy has always been as such, so what does this point to?

either way....does this show an existence of god? even point to it? a hint?

if there's a source to this universe, then isn't there a god?

if there isn't a source and it has always been...then how isnt there a creator (in some form).

i made a post earlier about when can logic be right, but the point still be wrong, and vice-versa, well here's a situation here.

I think both points are logical...so now what?

is logic really the foundation of finding truth? if so....what is it that logic points to? if this isn't logical...please say so and give some definitive backing.

I'm not here to say I'm on a path for enlightment or anything...I am simply asking questions...so please refrain from making assumptions of my "intentions" as I am making them clear now.

How isn't there a god?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: the big bang, origin of existence, it's implications & god [Re: kaiowas]
    #2680196 - 05/14/04 11:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know man. I wouldn't bother with these questions if I were you. If I were me, though, I might take a few moments to respond to your post, which I'm about to do starting.. a few seconds ago.

Logic says that things end and begin and come from somewhere. Logic is the key to our species' survival. We see the tracks of an antelope, and we say "the antelope came from here and passed through this area on its way here."

But really, logic is a human idiosyncracy. Sure it helps us survive, but survival and elightenment are two different things. I don't believe that logic ever claimed to lead us to all the answers.

I believe your questions are pointless. I can guarantee there isn't one big answer like "HERE YA GO" so please for your own insanity stop asking. I mean, you can find the answers, don't get me wrong, but none of the answers to your questions you asked are actually answers to your questions, if you know what I mean.

And why do you need an answer anyway? In my current point of view I think people should analyze why they want to believe certain things. I'm gonna make a post about this.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the big bang, origin of existence, it's implications & god [Re: kaiowas]
    #2682273 - 05/15/04 02:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Theologically speaking, once you've 'eternalized' something in your mind, you've attributed Divinity to it. The Universe, being, at least on the obvious sensate level, of the same matter that we humans are composed of, makes us one with the material fabric of space-time. This notion is simple Pantheism. It exists in the Bhagavad Gita as the 'spiritual and material energies,' which, in that case are 'eternalized' by the eternal dreaming and awakening of Vishnu (wherein the Universe 'vanishes,' only to be dreamt again). Pantheism is held by Neopagan religions who venerate nature and its cycles (though, the cycles are closer to us like seasons, birth-death-reincarnation, menstruation, etc. and not vast cosmic cycles like in Hinduism).

The Creation ex nihilo ('out of nothing,' or 'no thing') is creation out of a Source, a Singularity. Whence the Singularity you have asked? I have replied elsewhere the Kabbalistic response to the 'Tsimtsum' - the Divine Contraction of GOD's Essence to create a 'Void' the size of a mathematical point into which the Unmanifest could manifest and expand. Of course, one need switch gears from the physical to the Metaphysical when offering descriptions based on visionary, intuitive notions. Whatever is prior to - 'before' - physics, is called Metaphysics in English (derived from the Greek). The early Universe had a nature unlike anything that still exists. It was not yet differentiated into 'particles' or 'subparticles' because of its high temperature, yet it was not a Metaphysical Reality - an Uncreated Energy - that was quantifiable. On the other hand, GOD is not a Divine Clocksmith who 'voided,' or 'excreted' a dead Universe. Not only was the potential for life present from the Big Bang, but theologians would maintain that GOD's Presence is Omnipresent in creation, underlying the existence of every quark, perhaps creating or emanating (a notion alongside of the notion of creation) continuously and in many worlds (dimensions).

All this is based on vision, intuition, insight, faith or Divine Revelation of course, not on rational-sensory knowledge (empiricism) but then again, the Metaphysical is not Known by physical (empirical) modes of apprehension, but by the non-physical (spiritual) modes of apprehension that are part of the human constitution. The psychic realm which lies between the physical and the spiritual is "amphibious" according to Aldous Huxley and can translate from the physical and spiritual domains. It is with regard to Wisdom that we understand which domain we are discerning, and how not to compare 'apples to oranges.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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