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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11185914 -

As you skipped over my reply to you I would still like to know what you think about this.


Wait just a minute. Man also created god out of his early ignorance of nature and fears of death. Needing some father figure to appease helped early humans deal with all their anxieties. As each tribe did this they created differing myths and such about god creating the differing religions and views of this imaginary god. Then to defend their myth they go to war with the others to destroy other threatening views. 


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: Icelander]
    #11185936 -

Icelander said:
As you skipped over my reply to you I would still like to know what you think about this.


Wait just a minute. Man also created god out of his early ignorance of nature and fears of death. Needing some father figure to appease helped early humans deal with all their anxieties. As each tribe did this they created differing myths and such about god creating the differing religions and views of this imaginary god. Then to defend their myth they go to war with the others to destroy other threatening views. 



Oh, that's easy.  God(s) are all real and they presented themselves to early man to sooth their anxieties.  You have it all wrong, man didn't invent God, God invented man. Checkmate!


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185977 -

joemolloy said:
Describe the experiences.


Get your own experiences. I didn't come here to convince anyone of anything. You seem really keen on the idea of proving I am wrong. I am not interested in proving to you I am right.

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11185998 -

joemolloy said:
Icelander said:
As you skipped over my reply to you I would still like to know what you think about this.


Wait just a minute. Man also created god out of his early ignorance of nature and fears of death. Needing some father figure to appease helped early humans deal with all their anxieties. As each tribe did this they created differing myths and such about god creating the differing religions and views of this imaginary god. Then to defend their myth they go to war with the others to destroy other threatening views. 



Oh, that's easy.  God(s) are all real and they presented themselves to early man to sooth their anxieties.  You have it all wrong, man didn't invent God, God invented man. Checkmate!


I would have an easier time presenting evidence of my position then you would I'm guessing.

I can show lack of evidence of god at least in using occams razor.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11186061 -

Quote:
Wait just a minute. Man also created god out of his early ignorance of nature and fears of death. Needing some father figure to appease helped early humans deal with all their anxieties. As each tribe did this they created differing myths and such about god creating the differing religions and views of this imaginary god. Then to defend their myth they go to war with the others to destroy other threatening views.

 

I don't believe god was created by man or is imaginary. I think I already stated that religion is a creation of man. What ever reasons you come up with to explain religion is ok with me.

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11186199 -

Why don't you believe god is a human creation? What evidence can you present to this forum to defend your belief in god. Is there anything beyond your personal experiences? Because I have to say those sometimes are not reliable evidence of truth. The psyco wards and religion is full of personal experience. How would you know yours is correct? or that your intrepretation of what you experienced is correct. We are talking about knowing an ultimate truth now, right?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/05/09 11:04 AM)

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Re: Grace [Re: Icelander]
    #11186456 -

What evidence can you present to this forum to defend your belief in god.

none

The psyco wards and religion is full of personal experience.

If you say so. You are only crazy until x number of people agree with you. My experiences are confirmed by x-1 other people who experience the same thing. I am one away from sanity. YAY!

Everything anyone believes is either based on personal experience or the experience of others.

We are talking about knowing an ultimate truth now, right
no, I am talking about what I experience. I never said I know the ultimate truth, I think I said I didn't know the ultimate truth.

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11186485 -

ok then.:thumbup:

I sometimes "believe" in god. I was programmed in fudamentalism and it's not easy to get out.

I'm sure I don't know the truth in the matter however. I seriously doubt a god but remain agnostic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11187024 -

Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
Describe the experiences.


Get your own experiences. I didn't come here to convince anyone of anything. You seem really keen on the idea of proving I am wrong. I am not interested in proving to you I am right.


You are embarrassed to speak of what you perceived to be an experience because you know it sounds like laughable nonsense that could not withstand an iota of scrutiny.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11187030 -

if god judges some thing, he must also be a thing

please show me this 'thing' you call god?

i am aware of what Grace is & it is not something that involves judgement or considering any action sinful

Grace does not differentiate any thing from anything else, otherwise it would not be 'graceful'


:peace:


--------------------

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Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11187106 -

joemolloy said:
You are embarrassed to speak of what you perceived to be an experience because you know it sounds like laughable nonsense that could not withstand an iota of scrutiny.


Oh, you read minds?


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11187146 -

Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
You are embarrassed to speak of what you perceived to be an experience because you know it sounds like laughable nonsense that could not withstand an iota of scrutiny.


Oh, you read minds?


Educated guess.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11187173 -

joemolloy said:
Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
You are embarrassed to speak of what you perceived to be an experience because you know it sounds like laughable nonsense that could not withstand an iota of scrutiny.


Oh, you read minds?


Educated guess.


Try for a real education next time, vocational school doesn't cut it.

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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11187191 -

'History. Are we now so smart that we can discard God?'

How do you feel about creationism...??  Just wondering.:peace:

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11187218 -

God came to you, convinced you of his presence and now fills your life, but you refuse to give the details of this meeting with him.  Why not?  If God came to me, I would tell you.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Grace [Re: joemolloy]
    #11187239 -

joemolloy said:
God came to you, convinced you of his presence and now fills your life, but you refuse to give the details of this meeting with him.  Why not?  If God came to me, I would tell you.


Twist other people's words much?

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Re: Grace [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11187486 -

Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
Band of Gypsys said:
joemolloy said:
You are embarrassed to speak of what you perceived to be an experience because you know it sounds like laughable nonsense that could not withstand an iota of scrutiny.


Oh, you read minds?


Educated guess.


Try for a real education next time, vocational school doesn't cut it.


You're evading with babble.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Grace [Re: Icelander]
    #11187644 -

How about NO.

Say goodnight gracie.

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Re: Grace [Re: Chronic7]
    #11188068 -

Chronic777 said:
if god judges some thing, he must also be a thing

please show me this 'thing' you call god?

i am aware of what Grace is & it is not something that involves judgment or considering any action sinful

Grace does not differentiate any thing from anything else, otherwise it would not be 'graceful'


:peace:



From what you say I gather that you do not believe a God external to this world exists. Perhaps you believe god to be within each of us or something like that.

You also say grace has nothing to do with sin and judgment. It has everything to do with it. Grace is getting what you don't deserve. Instead of the death penalty, you are acquitted and set free. The message Jesus was sent to proclaim was grace to sinners deserving of wrath.

Even I, as a Christian, have trouble comprehending why hell is appropriate punishment. God has put my mind to rest by giving me a better perspective on what sin is. We as humans do not see sin nearly as serious or offensive as it is. We are too man centered and not God centered in our thinking.

I want to speak about grace. If I had no need of grace, then I could demand what I deserve. We definitely do not want what we deserve.

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Re: Grace [Re: palmersc]
    #11188121 -

palmersc said:
Chronic777 said:
if god judges some thing, he must also be a thing

please show me this 'thing' you call god?

i am aware of what Grace is & it is not something that involves judgment or considering any action sinful

Grace does not differentiate any thing from anything else, otherwise it would not be 'graceful'


:peace:



From what you say I gather that you do not believe a God external to this world exists. Perhaps you believe god to be within each of us or something like that.

You also say grace has nothing to do with sin and judgment. It has everything to do with it. Grace is getting what you don't deserve. Instead of the death penalty, you are acquitted and set free. The message Jesus was sent to proclaim was grace to sinners deserving of wrath.

Even I, as a Christian, have trouble comprehending why hell is appropriate punishment. God has put my mind to rest by giving me a better perspective on what sin is. We as humans do not see sin nearly as serious or offensive as it is. We are too man centered and not God centered in our thinking.

I want to speak about grace. If I had no need of grace, then I could demand what I deserve. We definitely do not want what we deserve.



There is not a lot of grace in the Old Testament.  In fact it is downright brutal.  That God is cruel.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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