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Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both?
    #10116482 -

I believe that we have free will as well as a destiny. When we are young our future has many possibilities and depending on the individual the possibilities may be of varying limitations. As we grow older, with every choice that we make the number of possible outcomes for our future reduces. I believe this is one of the reasons why so many people have a midlife crisis because at some point they realize that if they had made different choices when they were younger they would have better options for their future. I realize that there is always so much that we can do and usually people's choices are not as limited as they may think but I do believe that as we get older our choices become more limited. When we are young our destiny has a wide range of options but as we get older these options are reduced.

There are many reasons to believe that we don't have any choice at all and that free will does not exist and there are many reasons to believe that there is no such thing as destiny or fate and it's all about personal choice. Over the years I've swayed back and forth on this subject so I'm very interested in reading what you have to say.

Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both?

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116493 -

Not again...  :what2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116521 -

Free will and Determinism are not mutually exclusive.  We have free will, but the choices we make will determine to some extent the choices we are presented in the future.  Thus we have a path made from choice.

I believe that we do have a greater purpose, but it is our free will to determine how or if we get there.  Just because you have a destiny, it does not guarantee that it will be fulfilled.

So I believe it is both.


--------------------
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?  And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116522 -

Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both?

There is no way to know it seems.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116523 -

I'm a staunch determinist. A human is the result of two things: genetics and environment. Anything that you can do or think is determined in totality by those two things. All choices must take place within the parameters of the environment in which we exist, as well. Any action that is taken by an individual is the only action that individual could ever have taken.

Realizing this is the most destructive thing I've experienced when it comes to personal philosophy. No one can be blamed or judged, the existence of gods is doubtful (this is mixed with other findings, determinism does not make that certain), and the possibility of adapting many other viewpoints becomes remote. 

Still, the social contract must be enforced until humanity transcends its current state. It is shameful to think about how many people are imprisoned when they could never escape their environments, but it is the price that must be paid for peace.


--------------------

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: Lancaster]
    #10116525 -

Peace? Where?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10116536 -

MushroomTrip said:
Not again...  :what2:


This is actually my first thread!:shrug:

Are you suggesting that I should've dug through all the past threads in this forum to find one on this subject? I've been posting here a few months now and have not seen a thread on this subject.

Thanks for your wonderful contribution!:nono:

I would like to thank everyone in advance for keeping this thread on topic.

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10116542 -

MushroomTrip said:
Not again...  :what2:


He had no choice... :shrug:


--------------------

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116575 -

zen buddy said:
This is actually my first thread!:shrug:

Are you suggesting that I should've dug through all the past threads in this forum to find one on this subject? I've been posting here a few months now and have not seen a thread on this subject.

Thanks for your wonderful contribution!:nono:

I would like to thank everyone in advance for keeping this thread on topic.


If you want your thread on topic, why make all this useless reply to me, when you could have just ignored me?
And no, I am not trying to suggest that, or anything else. :lol: I have just expressed my feeling about seeing a topic like this again. Now please, if you could keep your thread on topic. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10116603 -

:shrug: ...  Choice?

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10116606 -



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: Icelander]
    #10116768 -

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10116803 -

If we are totally conditioned, then there is no free will

Alot of people say 'i know i am totally conditioned' yet think they still have free will, that feeling of free will would only be conditioning aswell!

To find out free will or destiny we first have to first find who the one is that would have free will or destiny

When we say "I do this..." who is that one?

Who actually isit that 'does' things?

If you find that one then the question of having free will or destiny won't come up, things happen, thats all. Free will or fate are just concepts about what is happening.

:peace:

Our desires determine where our attention goes, then we say "i want this" like we had a choice, but in what way do we control what we desire?


OrgoneConclusion said:
MushroomTrip said:
Not again...  :what2:


He had no choice... :shrug:


:lol:

:peace:


--------------------

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: Icelander]
    #10116958 -

Icelander said:
Peace? Where?


Believe it or not, there are some places in the U.S. where you can walk down the street without looking over your shoulder :smile2:


--------------------

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: Lancaster]
    #10117277 -

That's not peace, that's a lull in the action. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10122065 -

A few years ago I had a very long trip and I got to thinking about something that made me a little uncomfortable...

The reason we are the person that we are today is because of the choices that we have made in the past and the person that we are today determines what choices we will make. As we cannot change the past we cannot change the person that we are today and therefore we have no choice but to be ourselves and make our choice (the only choice we can really make). For me this proves that in this moment we don't really have a choice but I still insist on the fact that we are in control in some way otherwise none of it makes much sense.

This realization can be very difficult for most people to understand or accept but if you look at it with an open mind while remaining optimistic it somehow makes it easier to know how difficult it can be to change who we are. I do believe that we can change who we are but that it takes dedication and determination as well as a series of choices.

There is no way that you could have made any other choice than the one you made today because that's who you are. Old habits can be broken and new choices can be made, I know this is a fact because it is true in my case.

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10122102 -

I agree with you. I have stated here several times that I believe throughout all of our history there are and were and always will be a small and fairly steady percentage of humans who are capable of this kind of change. Most will not or cannot or can only do so to the smallest degree. Good post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Do we have a choice? Free will, destined fate or both? [Re: Icelander]
    #10122177 -

both.

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