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 11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian
Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
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 fate - free will : paradox 
#1537794 - 05/10/03 08:22 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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A journey into paradox:
terrifying however: utter bliss
: a person's character is their fate. :
::but fate is not some distant experience, fate is every momemnt - the infinite now, so::
::!a person's character is their existence!::
But what of free will? The ability to decide to do what one wants, pure and simple.
Can we be entities of both free will and fate? Destined to, as well as, at the steering wheel?
The journey into paradox:
pure terror: pure bliss
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-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_
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Sole_Worthy
Stranger
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
Loc: over here
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 Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: 11polakie11]
#1537815 - 05/10/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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well some might say that we ave free will but finding ones true love is fate
me, on the other hand, i dunno dude, i just live here
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get it all together get like birds of a feather
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: 11polakie11]
#1537857 - 05/10/03 08:57 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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Imagine that your life is a road stretching from your birth to your death. Each moment that you live moves you a bit further down the road. Your fate holds you to the road, but you have free will to move from side to side during the journey.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Sole_Worthy
Stranger
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
Loc: over here
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Seuss]
#1537862 - 05/10/03 08:58 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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how far side to side?
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get it all together get like birds of a feather
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Sole_Worthy]
#1537967 - 05/10/03 09:31 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
how far side to side?
I would never presume to speak for free-will, or fate for that matter... 
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Just another spore in the wind.
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DrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Right where I need to be
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Seuss]
#1538109 - 05/10/03 10:32 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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How about free will determining fate?
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AH HA....
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: DrubuShrume]
#1538144 - 05/10/03 10:44 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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They both don't exist! <--Howzabout that for a paradox?
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
 
Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,024
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 20 days, 19 hours
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Murex]
#1538238 - 05/10/03 11:43 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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The concept free will is a difficult to define. If you have never read Sam Clemens, then read this. I had always believed we were products of our environment, but I also believed in free will until I read this. Its on an alltogether different level.
http://users.telerama.com/~joseph/mantble.html
It is 6 chapters long, do don't read one and think you are finished. It takes a short while to get through it, but it is worth it.
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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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 silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: 11polakie11]
#1538399 - 05/11/03 01:21 AM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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We're not at the steering wheel. We're not even in a train. We're on a train headed towards a particular destination. What we do along the way is our choice.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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tak_old
Endo Smoke
Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: silversoul7]
#1538480 - 05/11/03 02:17 AM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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I like to think I have control, even if I dont. The idea of descisions being based of universal laws, past experiences, and knowledge is scary because that would make us infact a complex computer program. All I know is that I was given free will at once point, and given a choice. We chose existance. Eternal love & life. My fate is that of having fun choosing my own fate, and knowing in the end I will still be part of the whole.
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Deiymiyan
I AM
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: tak_old]
#1539129 - 05/11/03 02:06 PM (20 years, 24 days ago) |
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".......in the end I will still be part of the whole. "
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That was nicely said !
The only thing I would add would be one word at the end of your final sentence....
FAMILY !
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Dei Gratia de integro,
Veni Vidi Vici:
In Nomine Domini..
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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I don't 'read'. I find that authors just try to perswade readers to thinking like they do, when I just want to think for myself. It eliminates the 'shaping' of my mind.
Maybe there is such thing as fate, but we just cannot see it because the 'computer program' is so complex, that we think we have free-will.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,024
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 20 days, 19 hours
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Murex]
#1539839 - 05/11/03 08:25 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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I can't believe you never read. There is NO WAY possible that you could possibly think of every thing there is with spirituality and phillosophy. Reading allows us to evaluate others ideas or see our own in a different light, and even causing us to conceive new ideas. I had one mind set before I read it, but after reading it, or actually shortly into it, most will reach the inexcapable conclusion that it is true. Don't you want to search for truth?
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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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I search for truth. I can think of anything imaginable when it comes to spirituality and philosophy. How could someone not be able to, unless they were stupid?
Mushrooms help me out a bit, 'nuff said.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 11 days
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Murex]
#1539906 - 05/11/03 08:55 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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So you don't read because you don't want to get infected by other people's idiologies? What are you doing here then, punkass ;P
heh I understand what you mean, though - the more time you spend in your own mind, the better - especially for an artist such as yourself Keep it up man - don't be afraid to check out some of the "classics" though because just being on this forum has already given you the perspectives you'd gain from "The Doors of Perception" by Huxley for example There are some excellent reads out there that I think you'd enjoy and wouldn't really effect your beliefs any more than this forum has
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Strumpling]
#1539944 - 05/11/03 09:10 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well, it's also that I don't want to waste my time. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some books are great and all, but all the books I've read or started to read are very boring and never seem to get to the point quick enough.
I think reading these posts here in the Shroomery just summerizes peoples thoughts, so I don't have to read a whole book to understand. A book is written (usually) by just one author, while here in the shroomery, many like-minded people are adding to threads all the time. More info can be derrived here.
I like to see other angles of perception, but a whole book would take too much of my time. I can always just think this shit up with my time instead.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 11 days
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Murex]
#1540082 - 05/11/03 09:51 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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Gotchya  You must be more creative than I (hell, that's visible from your website ), because without reading things I tend to box myself into a particular way of life or idiology without even really realizing that I'm putting up boundaries for myself Anyway, you're one of the most stable people here in my opinion So keep it up - its workin for you, Murex
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Murex]
#1540126 - 05/11/03 10:08 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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well i like to think of some stories as just that. another persons dreams. where would you be without the people to build up this place for you? so you could design things on the computer. they had certain ideologies which allowed them to create things that you yourself have. Dont get me wrong though murex, i understand what you mean. But i would think that as an artist, and maybe its just my own limited view, that seeing others artistic endeavours help shape your own. And to me its not so much the thought that counts, its what you feel when you read. You are taken into another persons mind. Thats what art is about. imparting one experience on one another. opening up worlds. Like for instance the tripods trilogy by John Christopher. its considered young adult, and it reads fast. but its AWESOME. but then again, if you can gauge these "personas" or the essence of individuals simply by their writing here on the shroomery, i might agree with you. but for me its rather hard to delve into different levels of awareness without having something to feed off of. my understanding of myself is very small, i see it as the whole universe. it is me i am it, and i am like water flowing around washing up on these different entities, and absorbing and tranferring all these waves. but thats just me.
i think there are some books that should definately be read, if you want to take responsibility for the world you live in. but thats just me.
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im aprroaching a divine number. maybe i will be imparted with shroomery godly wisdom at post 777!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. or maybe not
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What?
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 11 days
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Zero7a1]
#1540136 - 05/11/03 10:11 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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I'm more your type, where I need other influences to keep stirring my mind's metaphorical stew, but I do know people (Murex as I've recently discovered, and several others.. I'm sure there are tons) who honestly don't need to tap into other minds to keep their creative juices flowing, which I think is a sign of a true creative mind, as long as they're not unknowingly blockading themselves
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: fate - free will : paradox [Re: Zero7a1]
#1540148 - 05/11/03 10:14 PM (20 years, 23 days ago) |
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"I don't 'read'. I find that authors just try to perswade readers to thinking like they do"
i think you are projecting your own mental insecurities onto the author's intent.....your mind is going to be shaped by the external world no matter what, you can't shape it yourself, thats impossible, you need help, everyone needs help.
everything you know has come from external input. the language you use, someone taught you how to use it.
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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
Edited by atomikfunksoldier (05/11/03 10:15 PM)
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