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Don't be a fundamentalist.
    #8547563 -

What is a fundamentalist?

I will have more to say on this. :wink:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8547593 -

Yet another pointless thread.

Where is this leading?


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8547604 -

+ :doh: +


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8548160 -

Folks, please, if you don't like the thread, stay out of the thread instead of posting noise about how you don't like the thread. If you think it breaks a rule, hit the "Notify Moderator". It's simple.

I'm not going to keep saying this. I'm going to start issuing bans instead.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8548591 -

Visionary Tools said:
Yet another pointless thread.

Where is this leading?


First you say it's pointless and then you ask where it's leading.

You need to make up your mind and take a stand on what you do not know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8548614 -

"Scientists can be fundamentalists. So can liberals and capitalists, atheists and hedonists, patriots, and anarchists, hippies and Goths, you and me.

Those who champion the ideology of materialism  can be the most fanatical fundamentalists of all.

Every fundamentalist divides the world into two camps, those who agree with him and like him and those who don't. There is only one way to interpret the world--according to the ideas the fundamentalist believes to be true--and a million wrong ways.

The fundamental attitude of all fundamentalists is to take everything way too seriously and way too personally and way too literally. The untrammeled imagination is taboo. Correct belief is the only virtue."

We are all fundamentalists to some degree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8548634 -

Those who believe the earth is round (spherical actually; OK, OK closer to an imperfect ovoid) are fundamentalists in your view because they believe the flatlanders and the cube-earth theorists are wrong?

There be facts and then there be opinions. Believing in facts is NOT dogmatic.


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8548636 -

Sez you.

I have learned of "facts"  that changed in my studies. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/21/08 08:09 PM)

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8548657 -

If my facts (Swami Challenges) were mere opinions, I would be about $1.2 million in the hole. If you have a better method to test my pet 'conjectures' I am open to hearing it.

Until someone pulls the rug out from under me, I will continue my fun-doh-mentalist ways. :yesnod:


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8548664 -

Icelander said:
"Scientists can be fundamentalists. So can liberals and capitalists, atheists and hedonists, patriots, and anarchists, hippies and Goths, you and me.



Fundamentalism pertains to belief in principles, or "fundamentals", and has only recently become a word used to describe someone else. Many christians still use it as a way of describing someone who view the bible as the perfect word of god, and a rule book for how to live your life. The same fanatical attitude may be found in anyone, but that doesnt make them fundamentalists.


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8548895 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
If my facts (Swami Challenges) were mere opinions, I would be about $1.2 million in the hole. If you have a better method to test my pet 'conjectures' I am open to hearing it.

Until someone pulls the rug out from under me, I will continue my fun-doh-mentalist ways. :yesnod:


They are your opinions friend and facts do not exist. Probabilities however do favor your beliefs. There is the possibility that it is possible that some one may one day take your challenge and win.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8549107 -

Icelander, I too have been thinking this, only lately wondering if this is what is specifically the problem.

From the American Heritage Dictionary

Quote:
Fundamental:

NOUN: 1. Something that is an essential or necessary part of a system or object. 2. Music The first harmonic in a harmonic series; the lowest harmonic. 3. Physics The lowest frequency of a periodically varying quantity or of a vibrating system.



It seems to me, as long as morality is kept out of it, there is nothing at all problematic about the concept.

What really strikes me personally, is the second definition: in music it is the root note for harmonic development. This rings true to me in both a musical and a figurative sense. The root note (which determines what key a song is in) is what in the span of time everything develops from.

It is the sacred OM. I do not think it is problematic to call this essence God, as long as it is taken account that this essence is arbitrary. In a larger, collective sense, with this dynamic nature in consideration, a better description would probably be self (in the eastern sense) The important thing to understand is this essence is manifested in time (root note is defined by later development of harmony. While the essence seems to take precedence, is this really the case?). In other words, its all relative....

I could play a song in G, and G would be my God. But there is actually nothing truly substantial about the key of G, it only in its relation to the harmonies developed around it. I could just as easily play in C, and then C would be my God. It is essence without substance.

If essence is not necessarily substantial, then there is nothing wrong with fundamentalism, and is a mindful approach.

I think the modern connotation of this word is misguiding. Heres where the philosophy ends and the bitchfest begins:

It is sure that "fundamentalists" are making heaps of problems in the world, but what I see as chiefly to blame, is absolutism: a claim to substance from which morality arises.

We can easily see the product of fundamentalists, because it is so literal in reality. On the other hand, Liberal action is more sublime. But I think there is nothing wrong with these tensions themselves.

Absolutism is the cause of the problems, it is only more easily seen in the work of fundamentalists.

Anyways, so this is what I meant to ask in the first place: Taoism really seems to be an approach that emphasizes the fundamental essence of reality. Isn't the Tao just this: a non-substantial essence?

Edited by daytripper23 (06/22/08 01:52 AM)

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8549968 -

Your official religion is relativism.  Anyone who challenges your fundamental belief in relativism is attacked.  A true crusader for the cause of relativism.

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8550074 -

Icelander said:
"Scientists can be fundamentalists. So can liberals and capitalists, atheists and hedonists, patriots, and anarchists, hippies and Goths, you and me.

Those who champion the ideology of materialism  can be the most fanatical fundamentalists of all.

Every fundamentalist divides the world into two camps, those who agree with him and like him and those who don't. There is only one way to interpret the world--according to the ideas the fundamentalist believes to be true--and a million wrong ways.

The fundamental attitude of all fundamentalists is to take everything way too seriously and way too personally and way too literally. The untrammeled imagination is taboo. Correct belief is the only virtue."

We are all fundamentalists to some degree.


Now if you'd started with that, it wouldn't have been pointless.

"Don't be a fundalmentalist" is something I, and everyone except those brainwashed to become one themselves agrees on. I just was expecting more than that for an opening of a topic.

I don't have much pertinent information to say, so I keep my replies curt, especially about the ovbious, because I don't feel it needs comment. Focusing on little details whilst ignoring the big picture nearly always is a bad thing to do.

Honestly, I was expecting something more. But it's just common sense. Like don't stick your hand in boiling water. It's sound advice, but I have never felt the need to warn others about the dangers of fundalmentalism, or boiling water. Anyone stupid enough to dip their hand in either deserves the inevitable pain such a foolish decision brings. And that will be a far better warning than any spoken word, especially on a forum ostensibly about growing mushrooms.


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8550199 -

I'm being very loose with my definition of fundamentalist. I'm doing it to make my case.

Here's how you can tell if you are an Icelander fundamentalist.

If you can admit to the posibility that what you believe to be true could possibly be wrong no matter how much current evidence you hold for your beliefs you are not a fundamentalist.

If you are convinced 100% that everything you know is an absolute fact then you are a  fundamentalist.

Yes it's common sense but who has 100% common sense? We are all stupid enough and so we will all experience the results to one degree or another. There is plenty of fundamentalism IMO going around these forums. And it ain't all religious.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: fivepointer]
    #8550204 -

fivepointer said:
Your official religion is relativism.  Anyone who challenges your fundamental belief in relativism is attacked.  A true crusader for the cause of relativism.


I'm not familiar with the term. But for me I admit to what I know and I can admit to what I don't know. In the end I know nothing that I am 100% sure of. That's the best I can do.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Icelander]
    #8550283 -

I like the flat-earth-round-earth issue for this:

the carpenter and concrete workers have to work with a flat earth mentality
a level has to be straight and flat.
(don't confuse them with facts)

another perspective does not help carpenters with their work.
in their scope flat earth is useful.

the pilot however needs to understand the round earth, weather systems and time zones.

the carpenter can fly on a plane
and the pilot can live in a house
but what they think does not need to correspond.

understandings and beliefs - attitudes - do not need to be synchronized for the world to be good.

fundamentalists are unrealistic.
they should have more fun and go mental more often.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8550923 -

Quote:
a level has to be straight and flat.



Sorry to burst your analogy, but a level follows the curve of the earth.


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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8550963 -

Actually, it's more accurate to say that the flat-Earth carpenter works with an approximation and the round-Earth pilot works with a more precise approximation. :shrug:

The honest seeker of Truth sees both of these things.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Don't be a fundamentalist. [Re: Diploid]
    #8551022 -

*I am replying here so that ALL may read*

To the person who PMed me saying a level doesn't change shape because you flip it upside down.

Response: Yes it does. A short one (say three feet) is very difficult to see it curve. Now take a 12' long, 1" * 1" board (or a 12' long piece of rebar) and flip it over and notice the bend.


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