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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Would this change the way you live now.
    #7356957 -

If you came to the conclusion that you weren't important. Or no more important than an ant or any other thing. If you became convinced that you were just a bunch of programming from nature and nurture and there was nothing special about your life. Would this make a difference in how you lived and what you lived for.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7356988 -

Fuck. I don't know. Tough question. I would probably try harder to get laid and probably end up dying of a heroin overdose.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Lion]
    #7357004 -

Then I suggest you get going.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357009 -

I have already realized that, and it has changed me, BUT have I fully integrated that idea? No. If I did I am convinced the result would be total freedom.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7357025 -

Well, we finally agree on something.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357035 -

What is that? The fact that I am enlightened?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7357049 -

Yes, yes, I know you have lost weight.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7357055 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
I have already realized that, and it has changed me, BUT have I fully integrated that idea? No. If I did I am convinced the result would be total freedom.


Why total freedom?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357056 -

I've had that vision before, long ago. I've also had the perspective that everyone else was living drone-like existences driving in their cars to go to stores to buy unnecessary goods which are put away on shelves in cupboards, closets, refrigerators, etc. I remember I was standing on a hill by the little country church up the street from me. I was on acid and saw way down there all these cars like a trail of ants. Everyone was just living for pleasure, avoiding pain, and trying to obtain the biggest structure to live in in order to store more "stuff" (as George Carlin puts it) both for consumption to make them 'fatter' themselves (both physically and socially). It was mere survival, pleasure and status for 'them,' whereas for me, I was playing "The Master Game" (R. DeRopp) which was to 'see' all of this but also to feel Compassion for the absurd and unconscious existence that the multitudes were manifesting. Some of this is still OK when I eliminate the egoistic frame of reference that subtley compares 'their' trip to 'my' trip.

I see our existence as an existential, free-willed being grafted upon a deterministic, mechanistic being of five Centers, with the middle Heart Center occupying a unique place between the determined and the free-willed centers of motivation. But this I take from the Vajrayana teachings of Lama Anagarika Govinda, and one that I based my dissertation on because it reflected my experience of human nature.



The other night I came across a little Vajra/Dorje like this in Whole Foods, bought it for a few bucks and hung it on my rear-view mirror with the black & white Tibetan memorial string that was already there. The Dorje symbolizes this concept of human motivation. I had been expecting to find something Vajrayana to put there for a couple of years and this lone piece appeared. If each one of us is this Diamond Body, and we are each a locus of terrestrial and supracosmic forces which interpenetrate our being creating the multifacets which makes each of us as unique as snowflakes, it becomes increasingly difficult for my 'adamantine' nature to be pierced by hellish visions of impermanence and meaninglessness.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357310 -

Self importance is the key ingredient to fear and indulgence. Without fear and indulgence we are free to act as we will. If self importance were lost or curtailed we would cease to be bound by the past or future because we could see beyond the self.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357325 -

the idea
is like a virus

get plenty of rest
more gentleness
more love
more water


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7357326 -

Quote:
I've had that vision before, long ago. I've also had the perspective that everyone else was living drone-like existences driving in their cars to go to stores to buy unnecessary goods which are put away on shelves in cupboards, closets, refrigerators, etc. I remember I was standing on a hill by the little country church up the street from me. I was on acid and saw way down there all these cars like a trail of ants. Everyone was just living for pleasure, avoiding pain, and trying to obtain the biggest structure to live in in order to store more "stuff" (as George Carlin puts it) both for consumption to make them 'fatter' themselves (both physically and socially). It was mere survival, pleasure and status for 'them,' whereas for me, I was playing "The Master Game" (R. DeRopp) which was to 'see' all of this but also to feel Compassion for the absurd and unconscious existence that the multitudes were manifesting.



Quote:
"You are the king, and you are just like your friends. That is the truth that makes you shake in your boots. One thing you can do is to accept it at face value, which, of course, you can't do. The other thing you can do is to say, 'I am not like that, I am not like that,' and repeat to yourself that you are not like that. I promise you, however, that a moment will come when you will realize that you are like that."

-- Carlos Castaneda


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7357393 -

drumming
yes
drumming is good too


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7357759 -

bug said:
Fuck.  I don't know.  Tough question.  I would probably try harder to get laid and probably end up dying of a heroin overdose.


Icelander said:
Then I suggest you get going.:monkeydance:



Kinda harsh...


And on a pessimistic "hypothetical" situation yet to boot.

Instead of pretending to be enlightened and feeling sorry for the poor sap who should just "kill themself" in your eyes, maybe you should actually OPEN your eyes.


--------------------
Those who would sacrifice their freedoms for securities deserve neither, and will soon lose both.

-Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: kimikiri]
    #7358210 -

It wouldn't change the way I live. It would change the fact that I live. If I came to a realization that I'm not as important as I believed myself to be, I'd probably kill myself.

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Boots]
    #7358312 -

see it is a kind of thinking that engenders a hopeless attitude.
that is because it is entangled with the opposite which is a hope or yearning to be more meaningfull than what you already sense naturally.

(maybe someone teased you to think it, or some legends were taken to mean something is lacking in your own story)

put another way, by wanting to be superman, the opposite reflection becomes exaggerated.

man is closer to dirt than to the sky, but this is magic dirt (worms thrive!), just look at the sky and be enchanted.

I would say that the conundrum as presented is not useful and, worse, it spreads like a disenchanting virus - the reader or listener can easily adopt dissaffection and disenchantment.

that is not to say you are responsible for others' negativity, but you are at the helm of your own highly visible wake.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: kimikiri]
    #7358409 -

:rofl2::monkeydance:

Don't take my posts (or yourself) so seriously. I'm just here havin fun. I'm sure bug can handle it even if you can't.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7358454 -

Icelander said:
If you came to the conclusion that you weren't important. Or no more important than an ant or any other thing. If you became convinced that you were just a bunch of programming from nature and nurture and there was nothing special about your life. Would this make a difference in how you lived and what you lived for.


I've realized this, yes. But it is nigh-impossible to integrate (at least 100% of the time) because of the way we function (socially, physically on a social/cultural level). I struggle with this idea constantly and at times wish I hadn't realized I'm no more than a 6 foot tall monkey and no better than any creature or vegetation I may or may not eat.

At times I'm more compassionate to insects and the like as I will remember this right before squashing them, but other times I don't think or care about it and continue on (and the idea behind this example can carry over into almost anything)


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: Icelander]
    #7358882 -

Quote:
Icelander said:
If you came to the conclusion that you weren't important. Or no more important than an ant or any other thing. If you became convinced that you were just a bunch of programming from nature and nurture and there was nothing special about your life. Would this make a difference in how you lived and what you lived for.



Flawed question, the part about being programmed necessitates that you would have no choice and you are asking,"Would this make a difference in how you lived and what you lived for.", as if you would have a choice once you realized that you have no choices. :confused:

Edited by falcon (09/01/07 03:20 PM)

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Re: Would this change the way you live now. [Re: falcon]
    #7358901 -

Right, no choice. (for you):whacker:

So I'll change this for you to say that most of what you do is programmed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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