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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6790978 -

mikemushroom said:
Blind faith, of any sort, is for the foolish

faith is logical



Huh? Any religion is blind faith because they can't be proved to be true.

Logic requires evidence, I don't consider a book evidence of god or jesus. All I see is a story written by men.

Every culture has a book to back up their religion - the quaran for instance. Out of the thousands of religous texts every different culture has written - which should I trust? My logic tells me none because God didn't write any of them.

If there was a creator then he should of wrote it in the sky or something - something that a normal man couldn't do.


You missed my point -

The Nazi's had faith in Hitler which led them to kill millions of their own kind (human beings).

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6793224 -

mikemushroom said:
Suppose the atheist are right. What did I lose? Nothing. But, if the Bible is correct, what do nonbelievers stand to lose? Everything.



I think that following a religion places a lot of restrictions on your life so you are kind of losing your freedom.

I guess if it gives you inner peace and you live happily as a christian (or whatever) then it is your choice.

It seems to me (and from your argument) that religion is used so people can feel secure - to feel everything is running along according to gods plan and it's not just all chaos.When you die you will go to Heaven.

I find security in my personal spirituality and I am also comfortable to embrace and not fear death.


--------------------
My vision fell upon the seven tall candles upon the table. At first they wore the aspect of charity, and seemed white slender angels who would save me: but then all at once there came a most deadly nausea over my spirit, and I felt every fibre in my frame thrill, as if I had touched the wire of a galvanic battery, while the angel forms became meaningless spectres, with heads of flame, and I saw that from them there would be no help.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Seuss]
    #6793323 -

Seuss said:
The definition of a species is a bit muddy... how much change must we see in a population of organisms before we decide that speciation has occurred?


A species has emerged when creatures of the same type can breed and produce fertile offspring.

Seuss said:
A far better criteria, in my mind at least, would be the creation of life in a test tube from completely inert (from a living standpoint) chemicals. In other words, life from raw chemicals rather than from bits and pieces of other things that have been alive in the past. As far as I know, nobody has been able to create life. (I'm not claiming that it can't or won't happen...)


What do you exactly mean by raw chemicals? I mean you probably know about many experiments where amino acids were formed spontaniously in simulated primordial soup conditions.

Perhaps you may not have heard about this one. Eigen experimented with the four bases that make up RNA (the bases are simple "raw chemicals"). When combined with salts and a replication enzyme from a virus, virus RNA was made, which then started replicating. RNA contains the genetic information of the virus and therefore could be argued to be life.
Simulated Primordial Conditions --> Amino Acids
Amino Acids + Protein --> RNA = "life"?

The whole bridge albeit in two seperate experiments.

Non-life --> Life.

Maybe not exactly what you meant but certainly interesting. I reccomend that you read "Paul Davies - The Firth Miracle" if you find that stuff interesting.


Seuss said:
Any references... I would love to follow the bibliographies to see where the numbers came from. I cannot believe that this is true... the majority of all conflicts throughout history can be traced back to religion in one for or another.


(about more athesists killing)

I agress here. MM's counterargument saying that evil poses as religion is rubbish. Saddam Heusein believed himself to be very religious. You can't just say as soon as religion is used in a way outsides percieve to be evil that it is no longer religion.


--------------------
My vision fell upon the seven tall candles upon the table. At first they wore the aspect of charity, and seemed white slender angels who would save me: but then all at once there came a most deadly nausea over my spirit, and I felt every fibre in my frame thrill, as if I had touched the wire of a galvanic battery, while the angel forms became meaningless spectres, with heads of flame, and I saw that from them there would be no help.

Edited by Igor (04/16/07 01:41 AM)

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6794062 -

Ego Death said:
mikemushroom said:
Blind faith, of any sort, is for the foolish

faith is logical



Huh? Any religion is blind faith because they can't be proved to be true.

Logic requires evidence, I don't consider a book evidence of god or jesus. All I see is a story written by men.

Every culture has a book to back up their religion - the quaran for instance. Out of the thousands of religous texts every different culture has written - which should I trust? My logic tells me none because God didn't write any of them.

If there was a creator then he should of wrote it in the sky or something - something that a normal man couldn't do.


You missed my point -

The Nazi's had faith in Hitler which led them to kill millions of their own kind (human beings).


To clarify:
Blind faith=ignorance or foolishness
Real faith=education and self-determination.

It is as different as taking a risk or taking a calculated risk- not that faith and risk is the same.

Faith is central to any religion and even evolution. It takes faith to believe any theory (for lack of better words).

You want evidence. Look at the History-100% accurate. Health code- (mosiac law) the very first recorded. Prophecies in the OT fulfilled in NT. The plagues and Red Sea crossing can be backed up with science. But if you want evidence of God-to see him-then I doubt that will happen in those simple terms. Such is the nature of faith.

A book is not enough to back up religions-action and God is.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6794199 -

>>>action and God

You seem pretty murky on what makes you believe this stuff.

I'm sure the history of Buddha or Muhhamad and Allah or Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib can be backed up equally as much as you claim Jesus and God can.

Why believe in any one?  I look at it from a 3rd person perspective and come to the conclusion that man himself has answered the most mystifying questions; how and why are we here.

What I don't like about this is it results in the potential to abuse positions of power as history has shown us.

Igor said:
Quote:
think that following a religion places a lot of restrictions on your life so you are kind of losing your freedom.

I guess if it gives you inner peace and you live happily as a christian (or whatever) then it is your choice.

It seems to me (and from your argument) that religion is used so people can feel secure - to feel everything is running along according to gods plan and it's not just all chaos.When you die you will go to Heaven.

I find security in my personal spirituality and I am also comfortable to embrace and not fear death

:thumbup::thumbup:

Edited by Ego Death (04/16/07 10:00 AM)

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6794361 -

Murky? How is faith tangible or understood personally if it is not personal? I am not murky by any means. Show me what you mean.

Yes it can and has been and will continue to be abused, but if you look at the abuse in the Bible, you can see the judgement on those that do (i.e. Saul-OT, David, Solomon and simpleton abuse such as Annanias and Sapphria.

It is this abuse that leaves a bad taste in mouths all over the world. If these people really believed in God, they would be too afraid to abuse their 'religion' of choice.

Why believe in one you ask (which I have answered in a ton of posts)? Why believe in many? Why believe in none?

I never said any of this is simple or so black and white. Everyone will reach their own conclusion and base their decision on what they feel is right.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

Edited by mikemushroom (04/16/07 10:34 AM)

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6795170 -

Why believe in none?

Because they were all written by man.

I don't NEED to believe in a creator. I see the force of life itself which has created every being on this planet and throughout our universe - that I believe in because I am a part of that.

I believe in the afterlife because my grandad returned from the dead in spirit form and imparted information to my grandmother that she couldn't of possibly known.

But believe in the bible? No, to many bibles all with different answers, much like ancient forms of law.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6795181 -

This will go nowhere... he obviously think a different thing and from what I see there's no way of showing him the contrary...


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6795184 -

I can understand different when its backed up!?

Maybe I should make some random religion with a poo god and see how many people join it and give me their money :mad2:

Look at what religion has done to the human race, WAR and SEGREGATION.

Its time we ended human segregation and worked together before we kill ourselves and our planet :sad:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6795190 -

I know

Obviously... the Bible has some weird effect :justdontknow:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6795214 -

Fuck it I am the messiah,

I will start the new age.

Our new God will be everything - Earth, animals, humans all equally part of god. The rules are to maintain the balance - work in harmony with all parts of god.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #6798712 -

.:.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

Edited by blewmeanie (01/23/10 12:37 PM)

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6798985 -

MushroomTrip said:
This will go nowhere... he obviously think a different thing and from what I see there's no way of showing him the contrary...


If you mean convince me by bashing my beliefs when I have respected yours, then no.

I have hung in with you guys, answered questions (pratically all of them), and have never been proven wrong. I am probably the most opened minded believer you will ever find. My replies are simply answers that are doctrinal, historical, and cultural. I have been proven wrong 2 times. Both times I apologized, and they were objects of debate (i.e. definition of evolution- which appears to be blurred).

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6799135 -

Quote:
If you mean convince me by bashing my beliefs when I have respected yours, then no.


No I'm not saying that because none here wants to change your opinion.
I was saying that this discussion reached the point where it's standing still.
We all made our points and now all we do is repeat them.

Peace


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6799203 -

new thread? :smile:


--------------------

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6799211 -

AlteredAgain said:
new thread? :smile:


Eh what the heck, there are already three that have the same subject :rofl2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #6829209 -

Everything that exisits had to have been created by a creator (I will refer to as God) that was and has always been. It is the only thing that makes sense. Having said that, Man does not have the capacity to understand God's ways, and all religions that I know of are just poor attempts by men to pretend they understand things they do not. Some points to ponder...
In the bible, God changes from vengeful to forgiving. If he knows the entire past and future already, he would have all the information needed to form a complete opinion on everything, so his mood would not ever be swayed.
God is referred to in the singular in 99%+ of the bible, and in the plural only a few times. I know the whole "Trinity" thing can explain this but c'mon, the extreme imbalance sticks out like a sore thumb.
If someone made fun of, or talked bad about me, I would not wish them to burn in hell for all eternity. If God is forgiving like I am (and I would assume so b/c I was created in his image), then he would not want someone to suffer for all eternity because they disrespected him.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Igor]
    #6830727 -

Quote:
What do you exactly mean by raw chemicals? I mean you probably know about many experiments where amino acids were formed spontaniously in simulated primordial soup conditions.

Perhaps you may not have heard about this one. Eigen experimented with the four bases that make up RNA (the bases are simple "raw chemicals"). When combined with salts and a replication enzyme from a virus, virus RNA was made, which then started replicating. RNA contains the genetic information of the virus and therefore could be argued to be life.


By raw chemicals, I mean nothing that came from something 'living' such as "a replication enzyme from a virus" ... as far as I know, life has never been created in a test tube without using an enzyme, protein, dna sequence, or something that was created by a living organism. I'm not claiming that it cannot be done, only that I haven't heard of it being done...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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