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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6775457 -

I am still waiting to see proof of a species to species evolution and not mere adaptation. I am waiting to see the ideas in the Bible disproved.

Prove religions were formed to make us secure. You can't.

>>you said:
The people who realise people want an answer will often abuse this to create a position of power and wealth within the natural human heirarchy (scientology for example).
<<

The truth is most people that have abused positions of power are atheist. More people have been killed by peoples with atheistic beliefs than all religions combined. And scientologists are nutjobs who believe in a sci-fi writer as some kinda guru.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6775478 -

Quote:
Prove religions were formed to make us secure. You can't.


No, but that's only because they were made to control people.
Prove?
Look around you and see who's turning who.
See the "motivation" of wars.
See the history of slavery.
And the list could go on forever but that's a good start where you can start you research.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6775549 -

You can't take radicals or fundalmentalists and stereotype the whole. C'mon, you know your spinning things. Look at origins not perverions.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6775582 -

I am. And I see nowhere an all-mighty ready to control and destroy in anger. This is the human God.
People always felt there is more to life. And it is. But I don't know if you can name it God, since God in human conception implies so many... human attributes.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6778021 -

mikemushroom said:
It takes energy for two atoms to split, so who created the first two atoms? Where did they come from? Who created the energy? There MUST be a source.



Um why does there need to be a source? Nothing lasts but nothing is lost. There is no such thing as loss of energy just transfers and conversions.


--------------------

"The dream is dreaming itself"--Kalahari Bushmen

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6778409 -

> I am still waiting to see proof of a species to species evolution and not mere adaptation.

Unfortunately, this is not as cut and dry as it sounds. The definition of a species is a bit muddy... how much change must we see in a population of organisms before we decide that speciation has occurred? A far better criteria, in my mind at least, would be the creation of life in a test tube from completely inert (from a living standpoint) chemicals. In other words, life from raw chemicals rather than from bits and pieces of other things that have been alive in the past. As far as I know, nobody has been able to create life. (I'm not claiming that it can't or won't happen...)

> The truth is most people that have abused positions of power are atheist.

I donno about that one... my guess (guess, not a known fact!) is that there is very little correlation between abusing power and religious beliefs. People are people regardless of their faith.

> More people have been killed by peoples with atheistic beliefs than all religions combined.

Any references... I would love to follow the bibliographies to see where the numbers came from. I cannot believe that this is true... the majority of all conflicts throughout history can be traced back to religion in one for or another.

> There MUST be a source.

Only because we exist in a world dominated by duality. It is futile to anthropomorphize (not the best word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment) creation.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6778692 -

:rotfl:

Prove anything - you can't

I think therefore I am - thats about the best one we've come up with.

:rotfl:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #6778702 -

Salvia_Antics said:
mikemushroom said:
It takes energy for two atoms to split, so who created the first two atoms? Where did they come from? Who created the energy? There MUST be a source.



Um why does there need to be a source? Nothing lasts but nothing is lost. There is no such thing as loss of energy just transfers and conversions.


To say there is no source is to say that energy itself is infinite. Is it? What caused the big bang (which I believe created the universe, but not life)? Energy did of course, but if energy is infinite how can a beginning of the universe be possible? It must have always been? If you beleve in a god or not this is all subjective to speculation, and can only be theoretical. This is a arguement that I think is in "The Universe in a Nutshell" by Steven Hawking, but I would have to check.

Loss of energy? Dissipation of energy as light and heat can certainly be considered a loss as far as our technology is concerned because we cannot recycle/reharness it. That is just my opinion, and I am no physist.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Seuss]
    #6778750 -

Seuss said:
> I am still waiting to see proof of a species to species evolution and not mere adaptation.

Unfortunately, this is not as cut and dry as it sounds. The definition of a species is a bit muddy... how much change must we see in a population of organisms before we decide that speciation has occurred? A far better criteria, in my mind at least, would be the creation of life in a test tube from completely inert (from a living standpoint) chemicals. In other words, life from raw chemicals rather than from bits and pieces of other things that have been alive in the past. As far as I know, nobody has been able to create life. (I'm not claiming that it can't or won't happen...)

> The truth is most people that have abused positions of power are atheist.

I donno about that one... my guess (guess, not a known fact!) is that there is very little correlation between abusing power and religious beliefs. People are people regardless of their faith.

> More people have been killed by peoples with atheistic beliefs than all religions combined.

Any references... I would love to follow the bibliographies to see where the numbers came from. I cannot believe that this is true... the majority of all conflicts throughout history can be traced back to religion in one for or another.

> There MUST be a source.

Only because we exist in a world dominated by duality. It is futile to anthropomorphize (not the best word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment) creation.


Point 1:

Pehaps not cut and dry, but this is my point: its theory. Unfortunatly is has been accepted as scientific law. Its not. The only possible jumps that would not be considered adaptation are mutations, which have never been proved to be beneficial, and a lot of the time is a disability of whatever animal species.

Point 2:

We agree that people are people- little has to do with faith. I totally am with you here. Saddam was an evil man that pretended to be a true Muslim (at least according to what I have read). I don't think Saddam did what he did because he was muslim (genocide). I tend to generalize with atheism. Perhaps the best way to put it is non-religious. Sorry.

Point 3:

This figure came from a college history class. I no longer have that textbook, but I have put in a call to my former professor and when/if he gets back to me I will post the documentation. This is not a figment of my imagination. I hope my previous posts indicate I am not a smuck making up shit.

Point 4:

Big word...lol. To look at things from an astrophysist POV the universe does indeed have a beginning and will have an end (of course this is theoretical, I will admit). I must disagree that- ONLY because we exist in a world dominated by duality.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6778854 -

Quote:
We agree that people are people- little has to do with faith. I totally am with you here. Saddam was an evil man that pretended to be a true Muslim (at least according to what I have read). I don't think Saddam did what he did because he was muslim (genocide). I tend to generalize with atheism. Perhaps the best way to put it is non-religious. Sorry.


Religion has NOTHING to do with spirituality.
Can't you see that?
That in most cases, not only that they don't resemble, but are totally opposed?
Why do people try to hold on to "old" stuff, old customs?
Does that give us the safety we need?
I think that's the reason why.
A man does murders or any other bullshit alike because he lacks spirituality, he lacks profoundness.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6779156 -

The question is -
why do you WANT to believe in god and creationism??? (from what you've said, I'm assuming you do)

Why not leave it unanswered as nobody knows.

I believe in the force of life itself, because I see it and I am a part of it.

If you don't believe in evolution - why do humans have a tail bone?

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6779171 -

Ego Death said:
The question is -
why do you WANT to believe in god and creationism???  (from what you've said, I'm assuming you do)

Why not leave it unanswered as nobody knows.

I believe in the force of life itself, because I see it and I am a part of it.

If you don't believe in evolution - why do humans have a tail bone?



That would sum it all up :thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6779222 -

some people call the force of life god some call it other things...

to most people god is seen as above everyone like the father or king but to others god is seen as everything that is me you a piece of grass everything...

its all on your idea of what god is to you

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #6779608 -

I to as a follower of christ have found myself before questioning the origin of me and the things he has done for me. But i am with milkmushrooms on this one the only way to tuly understand they reason why we think this and the reason why thousands of people become marytars. Is to get the bible and hope that you understand that you will have the least bit of empathy for our stand point. Iempathsize for your sistuation i hpe that you find an answer i really do. Ihope that someone finds you and tells you what is up. I respect your views and i hoep you respect mine.

Godbless

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6779881 -

mikemushroom said:
To say there is no source is to say that energy itself is infinite. Is it? What caused the big bang (which I believe created the universe, but not life)? Energy did of course, but if energy is infinite how can a beginning of the universe be possible? It must have always been? If you beleve in a god or not this is all subjective to speculation, and can only be theoretical. This is a arguement that I think is in "The Universe in a Nutshell" by Steven Hawking, but I would have to check.

Loss of energy? Dissipation of energy as light and heat can certainly be considered a loss as far as our technology is concerned because we cannot recycle/reharness it. That is just my opinion, and I am no physist.

MM


Ok below is just a theory to make sense of infinite energy and the big bang.

Well the big bang is just a fluctuation in the "wave-of-life". It would be just like the weather. It has high pressure systems and low pressure systems all trying to balance themselves out. But it cant because of all the different types of energy being put into the system and taken out. So you would have to visualize the big bang as a point in a wave. You could say it was a peak or a troff in the wave.

Energy can be infinite in the sense it never runs out but also never dissapears. Your looking at our current science that is unable to recycle energy, thats just a limitation. We are very inefficient at trying to recycle energy because it goes into to many different places to recover it all.


--------------------

"The dream is dreaming itself"--Kalahari Bushmen

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6780294 -

mikemushroom: If you're really open-minded about the topic(and you seem to be more open-minded than most people I've met who question evolution), I suggest reading this article on speciation:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html


--------------------

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Silversoul]
    #6781510 -

Salvia_Antics:

I really appreciate your theories. I have done some reading as far as the Big Bang. I must say Steven Hawking makes a great case for it. I couldn't begin to explain it, but I think everyone who finds the cosmos interesting should check it out. I am a little biased here, I admit. But it is because I haven't seen anything else I could make sense of.

Ego Death:

Because I am not Gnostic nor do I wish to be ignorant on any religious/spiritual ideas. I want to make my own determintion as to my beliefs instead of, as I have stated before, being a space monkey or drinking Kool Aid with Jim Jones. As far as nobody knows, I disagree. Proof is debatable, I agree, but faith can only be understood once it is achieved. Oh yeah, tailbones...lol.

MushroomTrip:

Religion and tradition are not the same thing nor is spirituality as you stated. I believe all human are spiritual beings by nature. It is our spirituality that drives us to our beliefs which is the same as doctrine, and through our own ideas of doctrine do we find a palatable religion. This is why, in part, I do not bash people for their beliefs. You should really try and read up on how people with M.Div degrees (+/-) use those terms.

Mastamike1118:

I understand you totally, but I do not believe in pluralistic sprituality. Some religions cannot work in concert with others. I know that isn't what you are saying, but I just wanted to add.

mrc:

I am glad that you think the way you do about others beliefs. It is unfortunate of all the poor examples that I see all the time. Many so called Christians want to force feed people with their beliefs and don't even have the common courteousy to here other people out. They just add to the stereotype.
The Big Bang in no way conflicts with the Bible, but evolution does. Some christians believe in theistic evolution, but this is flawed because God spoke everything into existance except man whom he created out of dirt. I can't find the verse, but the Bible tells us everything was made into its own kind.
Speaking of martyrs: more people (Christians) have been martyred in the last 100 years, than all of Christian history combined. And these are the people trying to help disadvantaged people out (mostly). Besides the Jews, Christians are hated the most. Funny huh?

Silversoul:

It does appear the lines of micro and macro evolution have become blurred. Point well taken.

Seuss:

My old professor has yet to get back with me. I will post something as soon as he does. I have done some thinking about this, and I am not sure if he was generalizing or not. Hopefully I will find out tomorrow..well later today (1:22 am right now).

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6782021 -

> I must disagree that- ONLY because we exist in a world dominated by duality.

:smile:  It is possible to experience our world outside of duality... I know, I have done so... however, it is difficult to know if the experiences are indicative of reality (duality and oneness coexist), or simply the mind trying to categorize/understand an altered state.

> I hope my previous posts indicate I am not a smuck making up shit.

No worries there... I have caught myself taking a standpoint based upon faulty data... It isn't you that I doubt, but rather, the sources that formed your opinion... and if your sources are correct, then I need to change my opinion.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: mikemushroom]
    #6782126 -

mikemushroom said:
Ego Death:

Because I am not Gnostic nor do I wish to be ignorant on any religious/spiritual ideas. I want to make my own determintion as to my beliefs instead of, as I have stated before, being a space monkey or drinking Kool Aid with Jim Jones. As far as nobody knows, I disagree. Proof is debatable, I agree, but faith can only be understood once it is achieved. Oh yeah, tailbones...lol.



That just about somes it up too!

Why do people avoid any questions that would suggest as to disprove their beliefs? Because they exist within the boundaries of their own reality tunnel - as do we all.

I'd like to say I respect your beliefs but I find it hard respect something that cannot be backed up by logic. Logic is all we have. If I let blind faith rule me then I would hate to of lived in Nazi Germany...

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Re: how and why would anyone want to believe in a god, a creator, a judge of character and life..... [Re: Ego Death]
    #6789370 -

Ego Death said:
mikemushroom said:
Ego Death:

Because I am not Gnostic nor do I wish to be ignorant on any religious/spiritual ideas. I want to make my own determintion as to my beliefs instead of, as I have stated before, being a space monkey or drinking Kool Aid with Jim Jones. As far as nobody knows, I disagree. Proof is debatable, I agree, but faith can only be understood once it is achieved. Oh yeah, tailbones...lol.



That just about somes it up too!

Why do people avoid any questions that would suggest as to disprove their beliefs? Because they exist within the boundaries of their own reality tunnel - as do we all.

I'd like to say I respect your beliefs but I find it hard respect something that cannot be backed up by logic. Logic is all we have. If I let blind faith rule me then I would hate to of lived in Nazi Germany...


People avoid questions because they usually don't have a clue as how to back up their statements with any real facts. Speaking blindly is usually a bad idea.

Blind faith, of any sort, is for the foolish. As far as logic- I can find complete logic. The scientific data of OT history can be backed up, the pholosophys of Christ are good, OT prophecies were largely filled in the NT. But faith is logical and if you really sit down and study instead of being closed minded, you might suprise yourself.

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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