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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #710971 - 06/29/02 11:22 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

You assume too much for the information you have.

This is typical of the "believer" mindset. Take a small piece of data and extrapolate it into a much larger story, then accept your own story as fact.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/29/02 11:22 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #710997 - 06/29/02 11:35 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

every last culture...
Are you familiar with EVERY culture? Overstating your case only weakens it.

...and people since the cave men have written about or drawn UFOs and Aliens...even cave men from Asia to England scrolled UFOs on cave walls...
I have seen some of the cave paintings to which you are probably referring. Like all two-dimensional representations, the pictographs are subject to many possible interpretations. A mere disc symbol on a wall does not tell me that these people viewed spaceships or were visited by aliens; only that they painted a disc-shaped object on the wall.

(Less you think that I am being pedantic; note that no one saw these drawings as symbolic of aliens until a slew of pseudo-science books came out in the '70s.)

Please reference some of these many writings. Most that I have read are similar to the cave paintings - subject to a wide range of interpretations.

...great thinkers such as Plato and Socrates claim to have communicated with beings who came from the sky.
Please post a link or reference to these musings.

Also, Time magazine once did a search to find the most universally recognized symbol or character...#2 was Michael Jordan but #1 was UFOs...
Reinforcing my point that UFOs/aliens are a part of our pop culture, but meaningless otherwise. Large groups of people have frequently been wrong about "certainties".

I am not saying they do exsist but the truth is stories about them started LONG, LONG, LOOOOONG before mass communication...hell, they started before communication itself.
A story could not exist BEFORE communication.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711008 - 06/29/02 11:45 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)









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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711068 - 06/29/02 12:17 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Figure 1: Looks like a representation of a comet or meteor exploding.

Figure 2: The most interesting.

Figure 3: Could be anything.

Figure 4: No idea.

Not one of these pictures speaks of an alien intellgence visiting us from another star system. It is impossible to get that level of data from a few brushstrokes of pigment.

For further discussion, the artist, his country of origin, dates and backgrounds on these would be helpful.

Are they interesting? Yes. Do we know with certainty what they mean? No.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 688
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711137 - 06/29/02 01:07 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

VERY COOL POST!! It took me damn long to read all ther repies, and for NOTHING. Same old ying-yang battles.. Aliens do exist. The brain cannot imagine things that don't exist!


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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world

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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 688
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711159 - 06/29/02 01:19 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

As for you Swami, here is the proof:

Just kidding.. Sorry

HERE IS THE PROOF ACTUALLY:






--------------------
I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world

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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711373 - 06/29/02 03:35 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Are you familiar with EVERY culture? Overstating your case only weakens it.
Then you tell me a culture that did not report this.

I have seen some of the cave paintings to which you are probably referring. Like all two-dimensional representations, the pictographs are subject to many possible interpretations. A mere disc symbol on a wall does not tell me that these people viewed spaceships or were visited by aliens; only that they painted a disc-shaped object on the wall.

True, true. Good point.

(Less you think that I am being pedantic; note that no one saw these drawings as symbolic of aliens until a slew of pseudo-science books came out in the '70s.)
Like I said, I think these stories have exsisted long before the 70's. As far as "Mordern Culture" the first Decade of UFO novels and "Alien Hysteria" began in the 50's.

In Plato's Jornal (published in a few different titles) he spoke of visiting Atlantis' main city and as he was writing he said many (rough translation by Jo Vont Fleet) "Disc shaped objects with a buldge in the center. So many they filled the sky to the degree of blocking nearly all sunlight."

How can you say a story did not exsist before communication? Just because the story is not communicated does not mean that it doesn't exsist I think.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi

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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711451 - 06/29/02 04:08 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Doesn't sound plausible in that there is insufficient "information" in a single (or group of) DMT molecule(s) to code for a 3D play to be acted out in your head.

No. Something else is going on.


Swami-I've only done limited reading/research on DMT, could you refer me to any helpful books, articles, sites, etc. that might give me a better understanding on what the drug does/doesn't do to the brain/mind? As well, what do you think the something else is that could a)trigger alien abductions(paranoia, schizophrenia, other mental disorders seem possible(?)) and b)why DMT and alien abductions seem to be very similar? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Peace folks.

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711747 - 06/29/02 06:10 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Swami, my hat's off to you! What a wonderful job you did in exposing the logical errors in some of the posts. It is very noticeable that some of the posters accuse you having a "tone" when very little can be detected. It must be remembered that every person brings their own subjective interpretation to your words. Hence, the problem with detecting anything as subtle as "tone" in any electronic transmission. I enjoyed your rebuttals immensely (again, no lack of respect to your dissenters). You seem to rely on logic, if I may be so bold. If that is the case then why the name "Swami"?

One parting thought, from one sage to another:

Whenever I find myself in the peculiar circumstance to reply to someone that I disagree with, I stop and ask myself why. I have absolutely no need to rebut anyone on anything. I do not need to prove I am more intelligent. I do not need to show my intellectual prowess. Most of all, I do not desire to argue with others that see things differently than I do. I have found it to be a waste of time.

Again, great job!

Respectfully submitted,

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711794 - 06/29/02 06:33 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Swami, my hat's off to you! What a wonderful job you did in exposing the logical errors in some of the posts.
You enjoy my posts because you agree with some aspect of them. I often wonder how many people find a post praiseworthy that speak of a diametrical point of view.

It is very noticeable that some of the posters accuse you having a "tone" when very little can be detected. It must be remembered that every person brings their own subjective interpretation to your words.
Everyman sees exactly what he expects to see - good observation.

You seem to rely on logic, if I may be so bold. If that is the case then why the name "Swami"?
First off, I find it interesting to people's reaction when I print poetry or photography or music; as if I am a one-dimensional being. Every person is worth exploring - we all have unrecognized talents.

I used to be called Swami because of my expertise behind the backgammon board. Many thought me to be a mystic.

Also, I frequently seem to be able to "read minds". Am not sure quite what to believe. For example: the first time I met my best friend, I said, "You remind me of that '60s TV western star", though they looked nothing at all alike. He replied,"Yeah, who's that?" To which I responded,"Clint Walker." Startled, he blurted out, "My name is Clint Walker!" Have many anecdotes like that, yet don't believe I am performing any magic.

Whenever I find myself in the peculiar circumstance to reply to someone that I disagree with, I stop and ask myself why. I have absolutely no need to rebut anyone on anything. I do not need to prove I am more intelligent. I do not need to show my intellectual prowess. Most of all, I do not desire to argue with others that see things differently than I do. I have found it to be a waste of time.
I write as a practice in expressing myself as clearly and as unambiguosly as possible. My writings are primarily for me. If someone finds some humor or gleams some tidbit of wisdom in them, then all the better. If not, that is OK too.

As every soul out there is struggling to find a place in this universe, we are all one in that. Everyone is worth replying to even if they are banal and immature (perhaps most especially).

Would be most interested in hearing your thoughts being added to the chorus...



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/29/02 08:01 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #711808 - 06/29/02 06:36 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

In Plato's Jornal (published in a few different titles) he spoke of visiting Atlantis' main city and as he was writing he said many (rough translation by Jo Vont Fleet) "Disc shaped objects with a buldge in the center. So many they filled the sky to the degree of blocking nearly all sunlight."




Would you be so kind as to correct the misspellings so that I can do a search to find this mysterious section that I didn't write? Multiple searches under Plato and Ufo's, disc shaped object, and "Jo Vont Fleet" produced nothing. I am a tad familiar with the writings and do not remember any references that could have been properly translated as "disc-shaped objects".

In reply to:

How can you say a story did not exsist before communication? Just because the story is not communicated does not mean that it doesn't exsist I think.




Well said, but what does it mean?

Argumentum ad misericordiam.

As Jack Nicholson said, "Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here."

ROTF!!!!!!

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Offlinegroingrinder
mycophiliac

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 271
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711845 - 06/29/02 06:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Woohoo! Damn good thread. It's nice to see that the good Swami is familiar with Zeta Talk. I for one am a believer. I cannot give a logical argument why this is so. I have seen UFO's. Where they piloted by et's? I cannot say because I did not see who the pilots were. Funny how some people do not believe in aliens, but are sure that others have been anally probed by them.


--------------------
Let's not confuse truth with reality.

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711847 - 06/29/02 06:47 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

You enjoy my posts because you agree with some aspect of them. I often wonder how many people find a post praiseowrthy that speak of a diametrical point of view.




What I enjoy about your posts is the scintillating logic that you deftly perform. I do think that UFO's are extant outside the mind. And that includes their beings as well.

In reply to:

Everyman sees exactly what he expects to see - good observation.




Francis Bacon said it best, "That which a man had rather were true he more readily believes."


In reply to:

Also, I frequently seem to be able to "read minds".




I have also experienced the same phenomenon. Fascinating about the backgammon!

In reply to:

I write as a practice in expressing myself as clearly and as unambiguosly as possible. My writings are primarily for me. If someone finds some humor or gleams some tidbit of wisdom in them, then all the better. If not, that is OK too.




Not only a clear thinker, but a good attitude. I take it you are not 21. I appreciate the invitation to discuss this. I will participate.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711859 - 06/29/02 06:50 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

As Jack Nicholson said, "Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here."



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Swami]
    #711921 - 06/29/02 07:12 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Did Maria Sabina or Dr. Wasson speak of aliens? No. They were not a part of the local culture. Did Tim Leary and Ken Keysey report aliens? No. Still too early in the time line.

Well, check out "Food of the Gods" where there is a cave drawing from a few thousand years ago of a bee headed "alien". Certainly doesn't look too far from the insectoids that are a common experience of psilocybin. And remember the word "aliens" wasn't current for primitive man, they would have called them "Gods" and "Spirits". There is a massive amount of evidence that primitive man encountered "spirits" in the same way we encounter "aliens", there is just the obvious difference in language. Maria Sabina encountered talking with "spirits" and visiting lost worlds.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Catalysis]
    #711928 - 06/29/02 07:14 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

This type of vision was very uncharecteristic of the visions that i usually get on hallucinogens because it was so real and detailed. The difference between this and the "usual" alien encounters that you read about was that i had an overwhelming feeling that the alien was really me with all of my human factors stripped away. It was as if this alien was my true self and the perfection of my being.

Same here Catalyst - had this experience many times on mushrooms.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #711945 - 06/29/02 07:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

With over 400 billion estimated stars in the Milky Way alone, and an unknown number of Galaxies in the Universe..(there are likely billions of galaxies) it would be rediculous (and selfish) for one to think we are the only intelligent evolved life in this Universe.

While there's no doubt there is "life" on other planets, "intelligent life" is a whole other matter. The number of variables that go into creating intelligent life is so unlikely that there are grave doubts that it could happen twice. Another problem of "intelligent life" is that intelligence doesn't seem to be a good indicator of how long your species will last. The dinosaurs lasted 140 million years. After a mere 200 years of human "industrial civilisation" the planet is on the brink of destruction. Are you confident that the human race will survive for another 138 million years?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Xlea321]
    #713534 - 06/30/02 03:49 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

The difference between this and the "usual" alien encounters that you read about was that i had an overwhelming feeling that the alien was really me with all of my human factors stripped away. It was as if this alien was my true self and the perfection of my being.


This type of thing is quite common actually.. when one mistakes their higher self for an alien being, as it can be quite foreign to some. The higher self is a part of you that never entered the physical plane, but remained attached to you as a multidimensional aspect of yourself without the binds of the physical. It resides completely in the spiritual.. without the ego or personality of conscious waking state... only life experience and collective knowledge and memories.

As the higher self vibrates at a higher frequency than ones physical body, it can sometimes be mistaken as an "alien".. my definition of an alien is a being that resides at or higher than 4th density.. even a human or spirit form at 4d. It can be especially difficult to distinguish who is who in the spiritual world when you are living in the physical. But every conscious being carries with them their life experience and life orientation.. and at higher vibrations it is easily recognized just by sight. The sight we use to distinguish such characters is that of our third eye, or pineal gland. All beings in the 4th density or above carry their life orientation that is recognized by anyone just as easy as it is to see what color hair someone has. They are recognized as either benevolent or malevolent, first, and then more information about them comes through pertaining to who they are.

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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: ]
    #714496 - 06/30/02 09:31 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting...

You say, "my definition of an alien is a being that resides at or higher than 4th density".

Does that mean my higher self does not reside at or higher than this particular density?

If my higher self does in fact reside at this density, can my higher self then be considered an "alien" accorrding to your definition?

Are the "aliens" that we supposedly interact with actually the higher conciousnesses of beings that exist in the lower three vibrational levels?


--------------------
:egyptian:

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Anonymous

Re: Alien/Human Relations v2.0 [Re: Catalysis]
    #714866 - 07/01/02 02:14 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Allow me to explain

If you want to get technical.. one could say the higher self exists on the 10th density or above. A plane of consciousness that is connected with All That Is, and is always in touch with its true self.

If my higher self does in fact reside at this density, can my higher self then be considered an "alien" accorrding to your definition?

Yes it could. If we are speaking of aliens as higher states of consciousness in higher densities.

Are the "aliens" that we supposedly interact with actually the higher conciousnesses of beings that exist in the lower three vibrational levels?

This could very well be. But again, I must reiterate the fact that with the third eye, one can always see an entity for who are what it is.

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