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Re: Objectifying women *DELETED* [Re: aryah]
    #6714490 -

Post deleted by uber_aj

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Silversoul]
    #6714493 -

Ah, I actually recall the exact source of the statistics I was talking about, namely The Moral Animal by Robert Write. A brief summary of what he was speaking on is given by Steven Pinker:

Quote:
Mr. Wright believes that evolutionary psychology (as this mixture of cognition and updated sociobiology is called) has profound implications for the human condition, particularly for sexual politics. He suggests that Victorian sexual morals, including the sexual double standard for men and women, and the "madonna-whore" dichotomy (in which coy women are valued as potential wives and loose women are denigrated as short-term conquests), offer tactical advantages to women.

"The Moral Animal" turns other popular beliefs inside out. Monogamy, Mr. Wright says, does not favor the interests of most women, particularly lower-status women. Most human cultures throughout history have been mildly polygynous, with wealthier men attracting several wives. Though women in these cultures "are often less than eager to share a man," he writes, "typically, they would rather do that than live in poverty with the undivided attention of a ne'er-do-well." Monogamy instead favors lower-status men, who in a polygynous society would be frozen out of the marriage market by a wife-collecting elite. It is no coincidence that Christianity has advocated monogamy and pitched its message to poor and powerless men.

One of the worst options for women and children, according to Mr. Wright, is what we now have, a near-equivalent of polygyny: serial divorce and remarriage. With real polygyny, wealthy men must support their old families after acquiring new ones; with serial divorce, the old families are abandoned. Mr. Wright challenges us to think through the implications:

"Johnny Carson, like many wealthy, high-status males, spent his career monopolizing long stretches of the reproductive years of a series of young women. Somewhere out there is a man who wanted a family and a beautiful wife and, if it hadn't been for Johnny Carson, would have married one of these women. And if this man has managed to find another woman, she was similarly snatched from the jaws of some other man. And so on -- a domino effect: a scarcity of fertile females trickles down the social scale."

His argument is not just a thought exercise; he pursues the consequences of the arithmetic: "Whereas in 1960 the fraction of the population age 40 or older that had never married was about the same for men and women, by 1990 the fraction was markedly larger for men than for women.




http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Pinker_on_Wright_94.html


Included in the book, but not Pinker's summary is how the existence of the maddona-whore complex is verified by statistics/ethnographic studies and how an increase in non-maddonna behavior among some females tends to reinforce the behavior in other females-leading to an arms race by which females attempt to attract mates by displaying ever less maddonna behaviors. That is because a guy will go for a girl that is easier as opposed to one that takes more effort for obvious reasons, so to compete for a guy girls will have to require less resources/effort. Supply and demand. =)

Not sure if that's accurate but the book claimed and I agree that a lot of the stuff associated with that general behavior lowers a person's self-esteem and ability to form proper bonds.

Also while I generally agree with Robert Wright empirically I realize a good deal seems to rationalize violent/criminal male behavior to the point of being chauvinistic.

In any event, if a girl really wants treat themselves as an object its not like harassing her into stopping would be very constructive. I just think the process will work both ways.



--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (03/27/07 01:26 AM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: uber_aj]
    #6714515 -

uber_aj said:
i think women are viewed too personally. every hack-ass comedian who gets a sitcom brings up how, "guys, we married men know that women really run the house...hahahaha," but i think its bullshit. women for the most part really are dumb. they cry and then act like they're "bossy" b/c men are simple, and only want sex, so they flaunt it and pretend like they're in control. they think that their opinion has some kind of influence on anyone else b/c they're hot, but they really are just dumb. they believe in horoscopes and serendipity and all want to live out the movie "The Notebook." and they all cheat. every single one of them.

if anything, they should be more objectified. you think you're a goddess b/c you have a cooch and can shit out a kid? wow, how special. so can duck-billed platypi, and nobody worships them. oh and then they get mad about signing a prenup. how bout, "dont be a bitch and i won't divorce you?"



Ya women are dumb. That is until you compare them to men. Who fucking go to war over some dumb religions and such. Or sit in front of a TV, get drunk and fat and relive the one football they caught on the Junior high team. Or think the truck they drive says something about them. Ya women are dumb.:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Icelander]
    #6714535 -

Icelander said:
uber_aj said:
i think women are viewed too personally. every hack-ass comedian who gets a sitcom brings up how, "guys, we married men know that women really run the house...hahahaha," but i think its bullshit. women for the most part really are dumb. they cry and then act like they're "bossy" b/c men are simple, and only want sex, so they flaunt it and pretend like they're in control. they think that their opinion has some kind of influence on anyone else b/c they're hot, but they really are just dumb. they believe in horoscopes and serendipity and all want to live out the movie "The Notebook." and they all cheat. every single one of them.

if anything, they should be more objectified. you think you're a goddess b/c you have a cooch and can shit out a kid? wow, how special. so can duck-billed platypi, and nobody worships them. oh and then they get mad about signing a prenup. how bout, "dont be a bitch and i won't divorce you?"



Ya women are dumb. That is until you compare them to men. Who fucking go to war over some dumb religions and such. Or sit in front of a TV, get drunk and fat and relive the one football they caught on the Junior high team. Or think the truck they drive says something about them. Ya women are dumb.:crazy2:



I believe one statement to that effect is that men are more likely to be idiots then women, but also are more likely to be geniuses. (since the bell curves of genetic variability and IQ have different ranges).


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (03/27/07 02:37 AM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6715893 -

Corporal Kielbasa said:
Silversoul said:
I see women paraded around like pieces of meat



Whe are exactly that. Pieces of meat. So i don't get what your saying.




wtf is wrong with you? A women is a human fucking being with the same rights as any man... wow a females self honesty must be really fucked up by todays world


--------------------

Edited by shizznit (03/27/07 08:50 AM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: shizznit]
    #6716000 -

shizznit said:
Corporal Kielbasa said:
Silversoul said:
I see women paraded around like pieces of meat



Whe are exactly that. Pieces of meat. So i don't get what your saying.




wtf is wrong with you? A women is a human fucking being with the same rights as any man... wow a females self honesty must be really fucked up by todays world



I am just stating the fact that every animal every human is a peace of meat. Not saying you drool over them and use them and fuck them then throw them away. Nothing of the sort. I don't even like eating meat. I am stating that we are all just walking talking bags of meat. Yes we have feelings and thoughts. But we objectify everything. The world is made up of thoughts and forms. We all have an equal right. We are all sacred.

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6716245 -

We are what we think we are. We are what we believe we are. If we think to ourselves hey I'm nothing more then a piece of meat, that what you become. If you think you are made of thoughts, feelings and ideas, that's also what you are.
So why would one chose to be just a piece of meat?
We are only scared when we think we're less then what we are.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6716278 -

When we look at women we have to look at them from beyond the eyes of our cultural lense (television especially) and see them for that which we actually are.

Generally people have very very very large amounts of programs readily reinforced on a daily basis that make them view women in a certain way that is harmful to their health (1st noble truth) and that is harmful to all women in America and America's visceral influence....

I find it hard when people talk about how a girl is "hot" or whatever..... that's just not the right word. You can't use those words at all, hot, slut, bitch, cunt, tits, boobs..... you name it... you can't use them because the words are charged a certain color and they are the words of the programmers that exist to keep us enslaved to suffering via desire....... it's like looking at a black person and having "nigger" being the only LENSE you can see him with...... the social programmers invented the word nigger to harm, and they gave it to you like a guy handing out pamphlets on the street corner

you have to reject that portion of reality

deal with sexual impulses however you will, and the asthetics of womahood however you will, but try to realize it is objectively loaded into your brain as long as you are a media consumer, and that the only reasons you are taught to see them this way is to manipulate you and take your money.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (03/27/07 12:22 PM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6716319 -

I know we are more then pieces of meat. Yet in the end we are pieces of meat rotting in the woods. Or we can call it bodies, or real people. Or the dearly remembered and departed. I honor all meat. Yes we have feelings yes we all deserve to live. But we are just a part of it, all doing what we are here to do. As i said before we all have the right to do what we please. We all have our own sets of morals and codes. We all learn new ones as we grow. Well i hope. For me at this point in my life i look at people as meat. A heard rolling through the hills on designated paths. I see the stampede at rush hour. I see the flocks on the summer shores. I see, I moo, I do.
I have compassion, i have a heart and soul. I have two arms and two legs. We all do. Or maybe i should say "most" do or "some" do.

We do paint our own reality with our thoughts and ideas. But to me i rather not set myself apart or above anything else here on this world. I am a part of it.

I have no clue what i am even talking about. I just talk, sometimes without thought.
We give power to any object we behold.

one love

Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (03/27/07 12:29 PM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: leery11]
    #6716321 -

leery11 said:
When we look at women we have to look at them from beyond the eyes of our cultural lense (television especially) and see them for that which we actually are.

Generally people have very very very large amounts of programs readily reinforced on a daily basis that make them view women in a certain way that is harmful to their health (1st noble truth) and that is harmful to all women in America and America's visceral influence....

I find it hard when people talk about how a girl is "hot" or whatever..... that's just not the right word. You can't use those words at all, hot, slut, bitch, cunt, tits, boobs..... you name it... you can't use them because the words are charged a certain color and they are the words of the programmers that exist to keep us enslaved to suffering via desire....... it's like looking at a black person and having "nigger" being the only LENSE you can see him with...... the social programmers invented the word nigger to harm, and they gave it to you like a guy handing out pamphlets on the street corner

you have to reject that portion of reality

deal with sexual impulses however you will, and the asthetics of womahood however you will, but try to realize it is objectively loaded into your brain as long as you are a media consumer, and that the only reasons you are taught to see them this way is to manipulate you and take your money.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6716338 -

We are not above anything in the world even if we see ourselves more then just some pieces of meat, simply because the rest of the world is also much more a piece o meat or wood or soil or whatever else :smile:.
Remember that the way we treat the others only reflects the way we feel about ourselves :heart:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: leery11]
    #6716352 -

I agree looking at a woman as a piece of meat in the sense of looking at a steak in the deli is wrong, and i by no means meant to say anything like that that would convey that thought.

I was once in a gay bar in SF.  I found a new respect for women after that.  To be eyed up as a piece of "meat".   

Sometimes i have a tint of negativity. Sometimes an outlook like we are a virus on the planet.  Dividing and replicating and infecting the system.  Sometimes i have that grim feeling.  Not all the time, i still have happiness, love, and sunshine.  But sometimes i have that dark outlook on life.

I should go outside and enjoy the day!:cool:

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Re: Objectifying women *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #6716706 -

Post deleted by uber_aj

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Objectifying women [Re: uber_aj]
    #6716923 -

Forgot: no flaming

Edited

Edited by MOTH (03/27/07 03:52 PM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: MOTH]
    #6716945 -

Not every woman is how you say.  If that's the type of women you attract AJ, then I feel deeply sorry for you.  Maybe you need to look deeper at yourself and see why you are attracting these undesirable women.  :shrug:


Edited by MOTH (03/27/07 03:53 PM)

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: uber_aj]
    #6717000 -

Do you spend much time with [real] women?

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: uber_aj]
    #6717024 -

uber_aj said:
Icelander said:
uber_aj said:
i think women are viewed too personally. every hack-ass comedian who gets a sitcom brings up how, "guys, we married men know that women really run the house...hahahaha," but i think its bullshit. women for the most part really are dumb. they cry and then act like they're "bossy" b/c men are simple, and only want sex, so they flaunt it and pretend like they're in control. they think that their opinion has some kind of influence on anyone else b/c they're hot, but they really are just dumb. they believe in horoscopes and serendipity and all want to live out the movie "The Notebook." and they all cheat. every single one of them.

if anything, they should be more objectified. you think you're a goddess b/c you have a cooch and can shit out a kid? wow, how special. so can duck-billed platypi, and nobody worships them. oh and then they get mad about signing a prenup. how bout, "dont be a bitch and i won't divorce you?"



Ya women are dumb. That is until you compare them to men. Who fucking go to war over some dumb religions and such. Or sit in front of a TV, get drunk and fat and relive the one football they caught on the Junior high team. Or think the truck they drive says something about them. Ya women are dumb.:crazy2:



women don't go to war, they cry about how cruel UFC is and then fuck each other over behind their backs. they sit in front of the TV watching Lifetime and Oxygen eating tubs of Ben & Jerry's getting fat, hoping to relive that time that a guy wanted them at a club, even though they call him an asshole now for not putting up w/ their shit. They don't think their truck says something about them, they think their VW Beetle w/ a "Good girls never make history" bumper sticker says something about them. Women are like condoms, you use them once, wipe your remaining cum off your dick, and discard/



Quote:
I believe one statement to that effect is that men are more likely to be idiots then women, but also are more likely to be geniuses. (since the bell curves of genetic variability and IQ have different ranges).




--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Silversoul]
    #6718113 -

Women ARE objects, objects of the most complex and wondrous sort. Life is not complete without women. You can experience them in a multitude of ways, that's what makes them so interesting. I love women... can't really figure them out. Have never met one who wasn't nuts on some level, and they can drive me nuts on several different levels. I welcome women objectifying me from time to time... but then, I'm a guy.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Re: Objectifying women [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6718139 -

lol


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Objectifying women [Re: uber_aj]
    #6718207 -

uber_aj said:
Icelander said:
uber_aj said:
i think women are viewed too personally. every hack-ass comedian who gets a sitcom brings up how, "guys, we married men know that women really run the house...hahahaha," but i think its bullshit. women for the most part really are dumb. they cry and then act like they're "bossy" b/c men are simple, and only want sex, so they flaunt it and pretend like they're in control. they think that their opinion has some kind of influence on anyone else b/c they're hot, but they really are just dumb. they believe in horoscopes and serendipity and all want to live out the movie "The Notebook." and they all cheat. every single one of them.

if anything, they should be more objectified. you think you're a goddess b/c you have a cooch and can shit out a kid? wow, how special. so can duck-billed platypi, and nobody worships them. oh and then they get mad about signing a prenup. how bout, "dont be a bitch and i won't divorce you?"



Ya women are dumb. That is until you compare them to men. Who fucking go to war over some dumb religions and such. Or sit in front of a TV, get drunk and fat and relive the one football they caught on the Junior high team. Or think the truck they drive says something about them. Ya women are dumb.:crazy2:



women don't go to war, they cry about how cruel UFC is and then fuck each other over behind their backs. they sit in front of the TV watching Lifetime and Oxygen eating tubs of Ben & Jerry's getting fat, hoping to relive that time that a guy wanted them at a club, even though they call him an asshole now for not putting up w/ their shit. They don't think their truck says something about them, they think their VW Beetle w/ a "Good girls never make history" bumper sticker says something about them. Women are like condoms, you use them once, wipe your remaining cum off your dick, and discard/



LOL!!!

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