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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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I don't beleive anything I don't see
#5727568 - 06/08/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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and if I don't see it, it don't exist.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727572 - 06/08/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727639 - 06/08/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schwammel said: and if I don't see it, it don't exist.
I don't see you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Springs
Mine(d)


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 330
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Icelander]
#5727648 - 06/08/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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what if everything existed even if you never see it 
[not directed directly at icelander]
Edited by Springs (06/08/06 05:14 PM)
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Springs]
#5727656 - 06/08/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Schopenhauer begins by saying that the world is an idea insofar as it is an object in the mind of a subject. To be a subject is to be a perceiver, and is not to be a perceived object. Insofar as a subject becomes a perceived object, the subject no longer exists. Subject and object are not a continuum, but have an either-or relationship. An object begins where a subject ends."
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/schopenhauer.html
Edited by Schwammel (06/08/06 05:38 PM)
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727681 - 06/08/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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So many things are going to conceal themselves from you with that attitude.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Basilides]
#5727692 - 06/08/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"The idea of a table or chair is an act of will, and the will is ultimate reality. However, according to Plato, a table or a chair expresses the idea of a table or chair, and the idea of the table or chair is ultimate reality."
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Springs
Mine(d)


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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727697 - 06/08/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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so would the chair still not be the "ultimate reality" like everything, even if you didnt see it or were aware?
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 293
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727700 - 06/08/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Check out the movie, "What the bleep do we know". According to that movie, Quantum Physics agrees with you. Until we experience it, it is just possibility.
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727704 - 06/08/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Plato didn't confine his philosophies to sense data.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Basilides]
#5727722 - 06/08/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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""Schopenhauer concludes The World as Will and Idea by arguing that suffering is caused by unfulfilled or frustrated volition. The only way to overcome suffering is by denial of the will. The will resists its own negation, but if it is completely negated, then the world of representation is also completely negated. Thus, nothing is left of the world after the will has been negated. However, this nothingness of the world of representation can only be in the relation to the being of the world of representation.""
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727728 - 06/08/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Did you know that a bean is a bean but a pee is relief?"
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 293
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Basilides]
#5727733 - 06/08/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It seems to me that thoughts are sensory. You are sensing distinctions between concepts. I know what you meant, but I think our entire existence is sensory. We are articulating one experience from another, whether that is sight, smell, cognition, or maybe some subtle sense we are not fully aware of but still integrate into our daily life. If we had no sense how could we define anything relative to anything else?
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Basilides]
#5727749 - 06/08/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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sounds pretty good; but, i think i'll take a pee too...
just another twist on the stick.
I don't beleive anything I don't see
"and if I don't see it, it don't exist"
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727752 - 06/08/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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You really deserve better ratings, dear Schwammel. 
Your posts are great.
"I do believe you are what you perceive."
Lou Reed said that.
Edited by dr_mandelbrot (06/08/06 06:03 PM)
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727762 - 06/08/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schwammel said: "Schopenhauer begins by saying that the world is an idea insofar as it is an object in the mind of a subject. To be a subject is to be a perceiver, and is not to be a perceived object. Insofar as a subject becomes a perceived object, the subject no longer exists. Subject and object are not a continuum, but have an either-or relationship. An object begins where a subject ends."
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/schopenhauer.html
What if Person A is staring at Person B, while Person B is staring at Person A? Would Person A not be both a subject (perceiving Person B) AND an object (being perceived by Person B)?
Furthermore, there has to be a base state of consciousness in order to perceive anything. To this consciousness, everything, even the body and mental processes are objects of knowledge. In order to perceive ANY objects, there must be a subject. You can't have a subject without a perceived object, and you can't have a perceived object without a subject. Thus subject and perceived object are completely interdependent. They do not have an either/or relationship.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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avapxia
Stranger


Registered: 04/26/06
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727837 - 06/08/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schwammel said: and if I don't see it, it don't exist.
I guess your emotions don't exist.
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: dblaney]
#5727854 - 06/08/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think Schopenhauer answered that by defining the rules as he went along.
In order to have a game you have to define the rules. It was easier when everything was in Latin. It's like all those operas that where sung in italian played in vienna. you think anybody would of came if they knew what it was about? its pure horseshit.
Edited by Schwammel (06/08/06 07:22 PM)
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Schwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727877 - 06/08/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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think i'll listen to some rou leed
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: I don't beleive anything I don't see [Re: Schwammel]
#5727934 - 06/08/06 06:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schwammel said: i think Schopenhauer answered that by defining that rules as he went along.
In order to have a game you have to define the rules. It was easier when everything was in Latin. It's like all those operas that where sung in italian played in vienna. you think anybody would of came if they knew what it was about? its pure horseshit.
Wait...what?
What's pure horseshit?
And what rules are you talking about?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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