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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Everyone is becoming archetypes.
#5821571 - 07/04/06 09:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Because of our media lense.
Do you know what I mean?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Schwammel
Auk

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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5821638 - 07/04/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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yah, kinda I got a BA in film and another one in computer science...
the media (medium) is the message
Edited by Schwammel (07/04/06 10:21 PM)
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.


Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: Schwammel]
#5821732 - 07/04/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i understand, and i for one say hurrah. the old archetypes are repetitive and dull, let the boredom and search for pleasure lead us ever faster into more evolved forms.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5821829 - 07/04/06 11:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by "archetypes" in that context, would you elaborate?
Do you mean that people are tending towards extremes or...?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5821836 - 07/04/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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YES TOTALLY. I had an idea that this would start to occur more and more as we reach a "end."
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plexus
holding thelight of athousand candles

Registered: 04/24/03
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: MOTH]
#5821860 - 07/04/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
EllemyshShade said: YES TOTALLY. I had an idea that this would start to occur more and more as we reach a "end."
woah, me too. everything seems to be turning into the ultimate metaphor for everything else.
if that makes sense.
-------------------- that there, thats not me. i go where i please. im not here. this isnt happening.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: dblaney]
#5821889 - 07/04/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i understand, and i for one say hurrah. the old archetypes are repetitive and dull, let the boredom and search for pleasure lead us ever faster into more evolved forms.
well that is an interesting angle.
i was looking at the negatives. the nextdoor neighbors are communists because they talk a certain way like they do in the movies kind of thing.
Quote:
dblaney said:
Do you mean that people are tending towards extremes or...?
yes.
I chose not to elaborate just yet.
Everyone is clearly defined not by who they are, but by who they resemble. There is a huge mesh to choose from, hippy, anarchist, redneck, christian.... so many.
You've got a black man. Dress him in a jersey and he's a gangster, and people view him as a gangster, and treat him as a gangster, and are afraid of him.
Dress him in a business suit and he's a respectable, good, moral black man. No racism involved. (or is it?).
Take a white guy with a bald head. Put him in jeans and a vaguely masculine t-shirt and he's a good old boy. Put him in a robe and he's a monk.
If he's a good old boy you are going to be afraid of getting into fights with him, assume he may be a racist, that he likes to fish, might enjoy talking to you about NASCAR.... if he's in a robe?
But what if he's not a monk and he's not a hillbilly. What if he is a beatnik with no views on Buddhism or fishing..... but he deresses like a Buddhist, or dresses like a hillbilly?
The media is a lense for which we see the world, it is intimately shaping who we are.
Archetypes can be replaced perhaps more accurately with stereotypes. It's just that everyone is everyone else through the limitations of what the mass-media can present us with.
perhaps that is my elaboration.
If it's wearing a soldier's uniform...... is it racism to call it a soldier? Where does the process of choice allow us to choose what our mask is? Conformity denotes that for some people there is NO other choice, they have to dress like a soldier even if they are a pacifist......
it's confusing.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/04/06 11:22 PM)
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bobjones
...


Registered: 10/12/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5822051 - 07/05/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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great topic. really got the brain juices flowing.
it reminds me of middle school. i was always envious of the schools that had uniforms, as no one could define themselves by what they wore. and in turn no one could judge you by your appearance. i always found it hard to 'commit' to any individual sterotype, so i pretty much did my own thing.
and as i think any level of society can be dumbed down to who we were earlier in life (we are pretty much who we are once we reach puberty more or less), it makes things much easier to think about it in these terms.
looking back...on the surface it seemed like a way to make friends and avoid enemies. a social lubricant. if you see someone dressed in stereotypical attire, you treat them as that stereotype...just as they wanted you to. it would be easier to predict actions when you know people are assuming certain things about you.
but a level deeper...a deep seeded need to belong? if you are dressed a certain way, and act the part, you can instantly connect with people who are doing the same. its a way of surrounding yourself with people who wont criticize you. you are quickly accepted for who you are (in most cases). it also puts forth easy targets for your displaced anger. as we all know certain stereotypes cant stand each other.
i see most of these themes echoed later in life. the attire might change, but the concepts stay the same.
...my 2 cents
-------------------- "Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx
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evolprim
human


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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5822258 - 07/05/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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precisely why i walk around my city naked
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bobjones
...


Registered: 10/12/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: evolprim]
#5822292 - 07/05/06 01:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
evolprim said: precisely why i walk around my city naked
i wish we'd all walk around naked...although puberty would be a bit awkward
-------------------- "Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: bobjones]
#5822558 - 07/05/06 03:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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google Promostyl, it's what we think we are or should be because they ask us and can tell us what we should think - it repeats indefinitely, 2009 is currently being developed out of what we are today. It may actually be a political force.
http://www.mirrormirrorinc.com/trend-reports.html
but following another related tack: we are each like our own little tv shows and stations broadcasting at eachother and being watched - conveying little sponsored messages to eachother - making impressions, it is so sublime.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5824135 - 07/05/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: Do you know what I mean?
heh.. as usual, no.

archetypes transcend egos. i dont understand your comment.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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thirdeyetruth
Stranger
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: kotik]
#5826889 - 07/06/06 08:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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the world's a business, complete in itself, it's an uphill battle to break free of that
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: kotik]
#5826909 - 07/06/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said:
Quote:
leery11 said: Do you know what I mean?
heh.. as usual, no.

archetypes transcend egos. i dont understand your comment.
because everything we see is a hyper exageration..... we begin to view each other as though we were television characters.
free association: airplane! what comes to mind? 9/11 should be at the top of most people's lists.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5826918 - 07/06/06 08:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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your reply had no less than 3 speculations.
1 - not everything we see is hyper exaggeration. on the contrary, just as many issues are downplayed as they are sensationalized.
2 - i dont believe "we" see each other as TV characters. perhaps you do, which would go along with many of your posts, as well as your avatar.
3 - airplane! - I think of the national lampoon movie first, then i think of flying, my favorite thing to do.
not being argumentative, just giving you a different perspective. if anything, people have ALWAYS taken on the attributes of an archetype, thats what archetypes are... they are like mythological stereotypes.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: kotik]
#5826944 - 07/06/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: your reply had no less than 3 speculations.
1 - not everything we see is hyper exaggeration. on the contrary, just as many issues are downplayed as they are sensationalized.
do people pay attention to what is downplayed? Don't we like to model ourselves after the extreme and fanciful figures that we encounter? Ever played Power Rangers when you were little (or whatever the craze was)? Pretended you were a cop? But maybe #3 is right, maybe people always do this:
Quote:
2 - i dont believe "we" see each other as TV characters. perhaps you do, which would go along with many of your posts, as well as your avatar.
interesting note on the avatar. It's not relevant though. It started as a spinoff on an inside joke when I found a picture of Kirk and Spock riding a dragon and found it to be insanely hilarious.... so I decided to try to turn them into psychedelic lovers to suit my humor..... and well I don't feel like changing it.
I mean, you have to understand that I am exagerating. But this is what I see.
Child molestation/kidnapping. This is one of the medias favorite topics.
Now, my observation is that women and old ladies have gotten hysterical with "stranger danger" since I've been alive (which isn't a long time) My grandmother always used to say "we used to be able to let people go out and do whatever they want without having to worry about them.... but it's not like that anymore."
But according to my grandfather, my grandmother CONSTANTLY gets off on all the tragic stories of murders, kidnappings, and is very obsessed with them.
Because she chooses to expose herself to this view of reality (i.e. that kids are in constant jeapordy, the world is unsafe, and every stranger wants to touch you in the pantal region) it's no wonder she says things like "you just can't let your kids play outside anymore."
But if she is saying this, every single other old lady who watches the same forms of media is saying it too.
Now what I pose is this...... are child molestations, kidnappings, and things like that, REALLY worse than they were in the 50s? Are the streets of quiet and quaint little towns REALLY seeming with pedophiles? Is the nextdoor neighbor, despite being very friendly and polite, REALLY a sociopath?
Or is this just how we VIEW our neighbors, because every single time you hear a story about a friendly old guy raping a kid.... you don't hear one about a friendly old guy saving a kids life, or helping a lost child find his parents.....
We aren't supposed to trust our neighbors........ and I think it's largely in part because of the media coverage.
Look at the fucking news dude.... everyone is a sociopathic pedophiles..... no one is trustable. Sure now and then they might air a good story, but good news doesn't sell.
Not only this, but I theorize that because we assume everyone is not worth trusting, people on the whole become less trustworthy... not because people are inherently less trustworthy, but because the media INSISTS that society MUST be depraved, so society sighs and agrees to conform to the medias exagerated standards.
Unfortunately, this creates a feedback loop. The media then realizes "oh my goodness society is declining" so they exagerate that. And then society is like "oh shit we are getting so much worse!" so they trust each other less and less.
Think about it.
You used to be able to pick up hitchikers without fear. Now they are all supposedly killers. Why? Is it that things are more dangerous, or is that we just think they are? And in so thinking they are, aren't we more likely to make them more dangeorus?
this is the best I can do.
and what's wrong with giving candy to kids? If you have spare candy you don't want, wouldn't it make a child much happier than you? But no it must be laced with LSD, right?
Of course I'm responsible for breaking these kinds of things (and I wouldn't give candy away that would be way too risky) but you know... sometimes I'd like to be able to take my extra food that I'm about to throw away and just go "hey would you like this?" to random people.
But that's crazy right? No it isn't. It's not normal though... but if you lived in tribes you would always be sharing your leftovers......
homeless people would accept it though if I could find them.
But I mean, imagine you're at a pizza place and some dude you don't know walks up and is like "hey i'm not hungry enough to finish these last 2 slices, do you want them?"
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/06/06 08:51 AM)
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5826969 - 07/06/06 09:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: do people pay attention to what is downplayed? Don't we like to model ourselves after the extreme and fanciful figures that we encounter? Ever played Power Rangers when you were little (or whatever the craze was)? Pretended you were a cop?
no, no, no and no. ok i lied about #3, everytime i saw ninja turtles or 3 ninjas (showing my age...) i was convinced i was a ninja. until i fell asleep after too much activity. but when you say "everyone" as in the topic, that goes beyong my experiences and your experiences. such a general statement is just void of logic.
Quote:
Child molestation/kidnapping. This is one of the medias favorite topics.
well i can agree that the media exaggerates everything, but the media is not the same as "everyone." personally, i believe that the obsession with missing children is a precursor to the national id card, and technology such as verichip, focused on putting gps implants in children at young ages. but maybe thats just me exaggerating... lol
Quote:
We aren't supposed to trust our neighbors........ and I think it's largely in part because of the media coverage.
again, i agree.. but to those who understand the nature of media, and the nature of sensationalism, its unfair to think they are affected in the same ways as those who are unaware of the affects upon the unconcious.
Quote:
You used to be able to pick up hitchikers without fear.
off topic, and inaccurate. whether or not you fear a hitchhiker, that has no bearing on whether or not they will kill you. in fact, most sociopaths are very agreeable, and would not come off as killers. but again, off-topic.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5826971 - 07/06/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't want to dredg in the shadows too much here... it's not good for me and it has a tendency to make me judgemental... which I have only recently realized.... and am sincerely sorry for...
But in Memoirs of a Geisha there is a scene (this isn't really a spoiler) where a man buys the little girl, very disraught and upset, an ice cream cone. He walks up to her. Gets right in her face. Smiles at her. Treats her very nicely. Takes her to get an ice cream, then leaves.
Now. This man was completely benevolent. But to me it seems like in our culture right now, it is unorthodox to buy little children, especially a man buying a girl, ice cream. Now if you wanted to do it and you had benevolent intentions... it seems to me as if (and I know this is only relevent to how I feel but I would wager others agree) you would be hesitant, because you would be fearful that the child's parents would do a number of things to you.... perhaps even report you to the police.
This does not mean you can't do it. And I think if you DID do it.... and you did it out of love, that there probably wouldn't be ill consequences...
But I think most people would probably not end up buying a child ice cream. Because if they had good intentions they would be afraid of being judged illy.... BUT! Do you know who WOULD buy the child ice cream? Those with bad intentions would hesitate a second to do so.
It's like we reserve them a place.... you know? We set it up so that anyone who buys a child ice cream may be a predator, and this makes it so that the number of predators who buy children ice cream far exceedes the number of caring souls, because the caring souls are afraid of doing something very taboo.
I mean. It extends to so many other things. Like if I were to give someone I didn't know a ride around town.... it's something I might do... but then both of us are afraid that the other person is a psycho.
Quote:
kotik said: well i can agree that the media exaggerates everything, but the media is not the same as "everyone." personally, i believe that the obsession with missing children is a precursor to the national id card, and technology such as verichip, focused on putting gps implants in children at young ages. but maybe thats just me exaggerating... lol
that could be. I would think illegal immigration or "terrorism" would be a better front for ID-ing.... unless the motives to ID are in fact altruistic and not about control.
Quote:
again, i agree.. but to those who understand the nature of media, and the nature of sensationalism, its unfair to think they are affected in the same ways as those who are unaware of the affects upon the unconcious.
yes, but if 2 people understand the media's influence and 100 don't.... who is going to have more impact upon the world? I use everyone a bit carelessly but we are all connected to each other.... plus even those who realize the media's impact are still intimately connected to it and influenced by it. and if they stop interacting with it it still shaped who they were when they were younger and more naive.
everyone to me is like saying "the population" the population is changing because of the media in ways i was trying to illustrate (and i chose the term archetype but stereotype may be more fitting) regardless of those who refuse to conform to such measures.
Quote:
off topic, and inaccurate. whether or not you fear a hitchhiker, that has no bearing on whether or not they will kill you. in fact, most sociopaths are very agreeable, and would not come off as killers. but again, off-topic.
off topic? It was precisely in relation to what I was saying. Hitchikers have been demonized and therefore moral people (in line with my Geisha illustration) are less likely to hitchike because they think "no one would ever pick me up they must think i'm a loon" whereas in the older times before people made fusses over hitchiking all sorts of "decent" folk did it, and wouldn't be afraid to lend a ride to a stranger. But I'm not sure what I base this off of... maybe the TV makes me think this from the movies of the old days?
I think I've heard real people telling stories of how you could hitchike with ease in older times.
you are right about the fear thing.... sort of. It depends on if you want go existential, in that carrying fear vibrations leads you to fear scenarios whereas carrying love vibrations shields you from those who do not also carry the same vibrations.
We only have our own personal experiences to work with here so saying "well that didn't work for so and so" doesn't work.... but that could be up for debate too (if you get what I mean... I kind of get what I mean.)
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/06/06 09:08 AM)
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: leery11]
#5826984 - 07/06/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you constantly reference movies and tv shows to explain emotions and etc. then of course you are relating to archetypes and exaggerated characters. but that does not mean the same goes for the rest of society.
im not trying to pick at you in any way, just perhaps show why you may have come to this conclusion, being 100% subjective.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Everyone is becoming archetypes. [Re: kotik]
#5826997 - 07/06/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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do you mean "you" as in me... me referncing that film?
I'm not sure where your point stands.
I have never seen a stranger buy a young child ice cream..... I am simply trying to illustrate my points. I will illustrate them with media (which I am not completely divorced from), fiction, parable, fantasy, exageration, real life observation.... whatever I see fit.
I haven't seen an act of altruism that requires stranger to child intimacy, in real life.... but I am illustrating the taboo of such interactions (which I don't think you disagree with?) and how our media lense shuts the benevolence out of stranger-child interactions (and I won't say that stranger-child interactions are good, because it makes sense from a survival point of view to shield your childrem from that which is anything even remotely dangerous.... makes very much sense....) and ensures that any benevolent strangers will decide "you know what I don't want people thinking I'm weird" and keep to themselves, which leaves an open door for malevolent strangers to feign altruism to suit their agendas.
i.e.
if we didn't have such a hyped up stranger danger thing...... i don't think strangers would be as "dangerous" as they are now.
the other issue would be altruism itself.... which seems to be discouraged by the spectator notion of "i should mind my own business" or "they can take care of it on their own" ...... "i won't go whisk that kid out of the middle of the street because surely his parents are around" ( i think someone on the shroomery said something like this, they eventually took the kid off the street to keep him from getting run over )
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/06/06 09:15 AM)
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