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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
    #5602002 -

:lol:  What a clever parting shot!

Situation:
Someone does not agree with your religious beliefs

Interpretation:
They are judgmental and close-minded

Situation:
We disagree with your claim of being personally attacked by atheists on this board.  We ask you to back up your claim with some evidence.  You back-pedal and say that you were not personally attacked, but the intention was to belittle your ideas.

Interpretation:
Your point went over our heads

Situation:
You claim a double-standard, yet cannot back up your claim.

Interpretation:
You are outta here.  :smirk:

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
    #5602005 -

When you use the word "mystic" in the context I've seen you use it, I generally assume that it is meant to refer to people who hold mystical beliefs

When I participate in a debate about mysticism, mystics have to figure into the argument. This is a necessity of language. I'm only human and far from perfect, so I make mistakes, but I try to make it a point not to say something along the lines of "you're stupid for believing X", though I may say "it's stupid for mystics to hold X belief". There's a difference.

SS, you seem to be looking for some way to make this personal when it's not. That's your problem, not mine as I do not intend any debate here personally. I don't know what else I can tell ya.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
    #5602010 -

A lot of times I think the arguments 'round these parts stem from semantics. When you say "mystics" you may mean one thing, but when the reader sees "mystics", he thinks something different. Same with many other terms. That's why I think it's really important to define terms that even have the potential for ambiguity.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
    #5602018 -

To be honest, whether it's personal or not is irrelevant to my point. Is a Christian preacher being personal when he says that those who don't believe will be condemned to hell? All I'm saying is that you guys preach your point of view with the same kind of zeal, and the same "holier than thou" attitude. Now, I'm not here to stop you from doing that. I was just making an observation.


--------------------

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: dblaney]
    #5602021 -

That's why I think it's really important to define terms that even have the potential for ambiguity.

See, one of the core issues I hammer on constantly is that mystics don't have fixed definitions for anything. Ask 100 mystics what God is, and you'll get 100 different answers. Mystics are about things that can't be seen, have multiple definitions, no specific location, and have never been observed outside a mystic's head.

Given that general state of things, there is no way to settle on a definition for the word 'mystic' or anything at all to do with mysticism, and that's mysticism single biggest flaw.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
    #5602066 -

"Mystic" is a broad grouping.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602069 -

And, by broad, I'm not implying they're feminine. Although I'd have no problem with that. Honest.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602073 -

Faith-based? Subjectivist? What sort of group-title would be less inclusive?

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
    #5602115 -

100 different mystics?

How do you define a mystic? When I use the word "mystic" I am thinking of intuitive spiritual types who have evolved beyond judgemental exotericism that is present in psychological spirituality. Other people seem to regard it is a one-word definition, referring to everyone from Pat Robertson to Benny Hinn as a "mystic".

Just look at the "mystics" here - most agree on most things spiritually philosophical (the perennial philosophy) despite the cultural divide between West and East.

You say 100 mystics will have 100 different ideas of God. How is this any different than 100 "somatics" who have 100 different ideas pertaining to existence?

We need to debate without letting our heads inflate. We have a group of intellectuals here who believe Existence precedes Consciousness, and another group of intellectuals here who believe Consciousness precedes Existence.

Really, no one is being dishonest or subversive in debate other than those who accuse others of being so.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Basilides]
    #5602127 -

You say 100 mystics will have 100 different ideas of God. How is this any different than 100 "somatics" who have 100 different ideas pertaining to existence?

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
    #5602139 -

Gnostic, Hindu ascetic, Sufi, occultist, pantheist, etc

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602154 -

Quote:
mys·ti·cism

1 : the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics

2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)

3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power


How are any of the sub-groups you mentioned not included in the defition of mysticism, though? What is the purpose of being more specific, if the basic premise is the same throughout?

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
    #5602160 -

Diploid said:
That's why I think it's really important to define terms that even have the potential for ambiguity.

See, one of the core issues I hammer on constantly is that mystics don't have fixed definitions for anything. Ask 100 mystics what God is, and you'll get 100 different answers. Mystics are about things that can't be seen, have multiple definitions, no specific location, and have never been observed outside a mystic's head.

Given that general state of things, there is no way to settle on a definition for the word 'mystic' or anything at all to do with mysticism, and that's mysticism single biggest flaw.


you say those things have not been observed outside their heads, yet most religions (certainly christianity, judaism and islam) claim to be based on eye witnessed events and creatures.
So, you can't blaim, say, christians for starting a religion on something that is invisible, because the whole idea behind christianity is a god that interacts phisically with humans


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
    #5602169 -

What is the purpose of being more specific

To help Diploid avoid confusion.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5602176 -

Quote:
claim to be based on eye witnessed events and creatures.


:shrug:  I could make any number of outrageous claims, write them down, have others accept them on faith for centuries, but that would not make them more true or fact-based.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602188 -

MushmanTheManic said:
What is the purpose of being more specific

To help Diploid avoid confusion.


Was he confused? I believe he said that mystics were difficult to define, not confusing.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
    #5602267 -

The essense of confusion in its totality is the inability to define that which must be defined... or some shit.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602276 -

What about that which refuses definition?  :grin:

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
    #5602419 -

We take it out back and shoot it in the head.

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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5602485 -

:lol:  To put it out of its' misery?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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