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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Deviate]
#5601326 - 05/07/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
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Icelander said: Can you throw out 6 names to me?
just off the top of my head i can recall the following users describing themselves as atheist:
diploid itstarssaddam ravus SkorpivoMusterion bellylard MikeOLogical Redstorm
oops that's more than six.
and veritas, i'm well aware of the term agnostic which is why i only listed users who specifically described themselves as atheist, however i suggest you review skorpvio's thread on agnosticism vs atheism <a href="mhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5266178/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1" target="_blank">mhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5266178/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1</a> in which he explains why he is a proud atheist, both hard and soft and how agnosticism gives credit to beliefs which deserve none.
Ok, Ravus is no longer here so he doesn't count. I would like to hear from these folks and see how many actually are. Chime in here guys.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Icelander]
#5601354 - 05/07/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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ravus is still here, he just doesn't post often anymore. his last post date was april 29th, just 8 days ago. and do you want me to provide you quotes from previous threads where those users professed to be atheist? would that be proof enough for you?
Edited by Deviate (05/07/06 03:12 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Deviate]
#5601402 - 05/07/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No I'll take your word for it except maybe Diploid.
But lets say you can find 12. Lets counterpoint that to all the people that believe in god. I bet I can find quite a few. So all in all at least we can say that atheists are far from the majority here. They definately don't rule the boards. By nature they want to see evidence for claims made. That may be why they are perceived as radical and noisy here. But of course we do have another forum for those who don't what beliefs challenged.
Hi Ravus! I was just telling Diploid that I missed you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Icelander]
#5601421 - 05/07/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So all in all at least we can say that atheists are far from the majority here.
No one's denying that. The thing about them is that they tend to be more evangelical about their beliefs than most of the theists here. I haven't made one iota of effort to convince people here that they should believe in God, but several people here have attacked me for believing in God. My case is certainly far from unique on this forum.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601762 - 05/07/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could be, and I'm not here to defend them. I've been harshly challenged for some of my beliefs and called a liar by some idiot just recently. Guess when you put people together in a forum sometimes we lose our cool. It's almost always because we aren't really very sure of position IMO. Otherwise we can just let it go.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601786 - 05/07/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Attacked you, or questioned the validity of your beliefs? Has any atheist said that you, personally, are flawed and unbelievable, or have they merely said this about the idea of faith?
I have been away for a few months, so I might have missed it, but I have not seen anyone attack you personally on these boards.
Is it possible that you are not comfortable with the debate format of this forum? Here's what the P&S rules state:
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If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.
As I said, I may have missed the incident(s) in which atheists attacked you, personally, for believing in God. If this is the case, then they were certainly out of line, and disregarding the rule against flaming.
But if they were, in fact, attacking your ideas, then they were participating in this forum as is intended. If these challenges make you uncomfortable, and you choose to take them personally, you might be more at ease in the MR&P forum.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601795 - 05/07/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have used the word 'atheist' to describe myself, but only to point out that atheism is a withholding of belief in a deity, not active disbelief, which is the belief a deity does not exist. I do not believe a deity does not exist. I feel the same way about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and for the same reasons.
My beliefs currently fall right smack dab in the middle of:
Quote:
agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
pending any new discovery or argument that would change my mind.
Every time I say "there is no God", it is not intended as a statement of fact. My purpose is to test that statement in debate to see if it needs revision. So far, I've never found a reason to revise it.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
#5601803 - 05/07/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm well aware of the forum rules, and fully support free speech. That doesn't mean I can't call people out for being hypocrites. I know fully well the difference between questioning someone's beliefs and belittling them, and I've seen plenty of both happen in this forum.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
#5601813 - 05/07/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Every time I say "there is no God", it is not intended as a statement of fact. My purpose is to test that statement in debate to see if it needs revision. So far, I've never found a reason to revise it.
You zealous propagator of your cause! 

 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
#5601816 - 05/07/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
atheism: 2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity.
I'd say that you are definitely not an atheist, Diploid. I'm not, either. In fact, my guess is that there is much more to all of this than meets the eye. My disagreement with religious explanations lies in their implausibility, not in disbelief in all that is mystical.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601821 - 05/07/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So you are saying that you have been subjected to personal attacks because of your beliefs? Or that you inferred that the challenges of your beliefs were meant to belittle you?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
#5601833 - 05/07/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not saying that they're belittling me, at least not specifically. They belittle my beliefs and others like me. I am not accusing anyone of breaking the forum rules, but I am saying that it is no better than the Christian on the street corner telling you that you're going to hell for what you believe.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
#5601848 - 05/07/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: My beliefs currently fall right smack dab in the middle of:
Quote:
agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
pending any new discovery or argument that would change my mind.
I have no intention of pushing my ideas on to you, nor do I want to change your mind. But I would like to suggest that perhaps instead of approaching God as something to be known objectively, in the manner that one can know a cup or a piece of paper, one should approach God as something to be known unitively.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601852 - 05/07/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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They belittle my beliefs
Dood, your beliefs are not you. Why is that so difficult?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
#5601860 - 05/07/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: They belittle my beliefs
Dood, your beliefs are not you. Why is that so difficult?
Where did I say they were?
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601865 - 05/07/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I know fully well the difference between questioning someone's beliefs and belittling them, and I've seen plenty of both happen in this forum.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601871 - 05/07/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, personally, I don't care what Christians tell me is going to happen to me if I don't believe as they do. I don't choose my beliefs based upon supernatural blackmail. Since I do not believe in hell, or an all-powerful and vengeful deity, they might as well tell me that the Easter Bunny will break my kneecaps unless I change my sinful ways.
What I object to is the forcing of these beliefs upon others through censorship, educational "reform" tactics, killing doctors who perform abortions, morality legislation, discrimination, etc...etc...
Who the fuck do they think they are? I say they are free to worship in their church, garden, living room, street corner, wherever you like, but keep their nose and Bible and judgmental pious attitudes out of everyone else's bed, textbook, law book, employment practices, library, clinic, hospital & marriage.
I grew up being told I was going to Hell by strangers...it doesn't mean much to me anymore.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Diploid]
#5601872 - 05/07/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Them" referring to the beliefs in this context.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Veritas]
#5601881 - 05/07/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: What I object to is the forcing of these beliefs upon others through censorship, educational "reform" tactics, killing doctors who perform abortions, morality legislation, discrimination, etc...etc...
Who the fuck do they think they are? I say they are free to worship in their church, garden, living room, street corner, wherever you like, but keep their nose and Bible and judgmental pious attitudes out of everyone else's bed, textbook, law book, employment practices, library, clinic, hospital & marriage.

-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Will you accept ----- as your personal.... [Re: Silversoul]
#5601889 - 05/07/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Them" referring to the beliefs in this context.
Exactly. Belittling beliefs IS NOT belittling believers. Attacking beliefs is part of philosophy. It's how good ideas are separated from bad ones.
If you can't handle that, MRP.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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