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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
    #536727 -

I don't deny your story nor the results. However, if your results had been negative we would never hear your story. I postulate that many millions of people have played games similar to yours with negative results. These people would NOT post these events. The ones like yourself, that had hits, are convinced something magical just happened. Am I saying it didn't? No. But selective memory is a known psychological trait. This is where one would "forget" or find some reason to disregard the multitude of times when mental connection with another human being failed. Your personal experience is only a starting point and indicative of a possiblity, nothing more.

You and Amy should take the Swami Challenge or the Randi Challenge and take home the prize.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #536830 -

In reply to:

" if your results had been negative we would never hear your story. I postulate that many millions of people have played games similar to yours with negative results. These people would NOT post these events. The ones like yourself, that had hits, are convinced something magical just happened. Am I saying it didn't? No. But selective memory is a known psychological trait. This is where one would "forget" or find some reason to disregard the multitude of times when mental connection with another human being failed. Your personal experience is only a starting point and indicative of a possiblity, nothing more. "



...and you previously said:
In reply to:

"People would rather, talk, hyperbolize, postulate, theorize, blah, blah, blah,..."



You show the same pattern of thought, just on the oposite side.

THAT story stated the FACT that she explained the end result,also the FACT she knew the process of thought and also te FACT she was distant, still that's not enough for you to admit telepathy exists. The need for a scientific explanation is relative on this subject because science has a small understanding on how the brain works, to proove the existence OR non existence of telepathy, science has to be able to fully justify each synapse, each eat change etc inside our brain, it still can't. It's like a modern clock falling into the hands of a nerdenthal, he can see a bunch numbers, wich don't represent nothing to him, eventually he can realize that the numbers change constantly but can't relate it with time, then the battery goes off and his mind gets all messed up trying to understand why it doesn't work anymore.
What you want is the a "circus" having two guys facing each other and trying to find what they are thinking, people aplaud or people leave the building. That's not my idea of prooving the existence of telepathy, anyway i don't need that proof because telepathy happened before between me and my younger brother several times when we were young. We played a game a couple of times where one of us hide an object without the other one seeing, then we just concentrate on the object, and then the one not seeing went trying to find it without the presence of who hide it, we both managed to find the object right away many times. Other FACTS include my brother answering (loud) to questions i was thinking to my self or even start singing the same song at the same time without any aparent reason, this kind of situation happened many times but this skills fade away when we grew up.
So as you see i don't need a prize or challenge to proove what i allready know. Telepathy exists, maybe not in your world of "scientific explanation for everyting" or in Howard Stern show, but it exists.

Peace,
MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: MAIA]
    #536847 -

I understand. No one "needs" $10,000,000. People would rather work 60 hour weeks for 45 years and buy lotto tickets than "proove" what they already know.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #536862 -

Do you have a link with more info on that..


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MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #536863 -

Not everybody would like to be a guinea pig you know. Sometimes it's hard to be accepted just because your diferent and if you can, you would try not to show that diference, just like hiding a scar in your forehead with your hair, some prefer peace in their lives than peace in their pockets.
I'm just happy i don't have that skills anymore, it was fun when it happened and it will be remembered, nothing else.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
    #536874 -

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

Pardon my error - it is $1,000,000 not $10,000,000.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #536880 -

Cool I think I'll sign up for that, of course I need to work on my Telekenetic Electrical Storm before I take the challenge, but I will short out all of their equipment with mind power :laugh: 

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: ]
    #536893 -

Do it!

Note that Slyvia Browne (the famous "psychic") signed up then backed down - go figure. Didn't even attempt it.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: MAIA]
    #536943 -

That's very true. I'm of the opinion that anyone with real talent is not going to come forward. My friend often told me thereafter that she really didn't like the things that she could do and would never want to come forward in any way. Think about how strange it would be to have documented scientific proof of esp.. It would turn the world upside down. I don't think that anyone would like to be the focal point of something like that. If I could do that, I wouldn't say anthing to anyone either.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
    #537594 -

First off, Slyvia Browne voluntarily signed up. No one talked her into it. After realizing that she could not possibly dupe the panel of experts, she did not even make an attempt.

I'm of the opinion that anyone with real talent is not going to come forward.
Yes, if I could do a triple flyaway dismount from the high bars, I most certainly would NOT go to the Olympics to show the world my extraordinary gymnastic talent.

If I practiced 5 hours a day on the piano for 10 years, I most certainly would NOT give a public concert, but would just play for myself at home.

Your opinion on this matter goes against the nature of every single human being on this planet. We all have egos and love to be appreciated for our uniqueness.

A more plausible stance is : It JUST doesn't work!



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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (02/01/02 09:03 AM)

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537624 -

Imagine being the first person to demonstrate telepathy. The attention such a person would get from the public, media and government might not be for everyone. In fact the most egotistical people who would jump at such an opportunity might be the very people who are least able to utilise paranormal abilities.


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MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
    #537656 -

In fact the most egotistical people who would jump at such an opportunity might be the very people who are least able to utilise paranormal abilities.
And you base this on what? Absolutely nothing at all. This is just more lame excuses.

If I were so spiritually advanced that I had strong telepathic ability, but no longer needed an ego-stroking, I would STILLwin the million dollars and give it to the charity of my choice to do some good.

I put the weak arguments postulated on this thread right along side the weak arguments I hear for maintaining the War on Drugs. I see the same lack of critical thinking and examination.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (02/01/02 09:16 AM)

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537737 -

You still seem to be ignoring the fact that not everyone would want all of that attention. I'm sure that it would not be at all pleasant. A million dollars wouldn't be enough to warrant the kind of hassle a person would go through if they demonstrated their ability. Think about it, these people have nothing to prove to anyone, what do they care if someone believes them or not? They don't, because they know the truth. As for the "weak arguments," the fact that what happened to me actually occured is proof enough for me that there is indeed something to extra sensory perception. I have tried and tried to debunk what happened, but I just can't. If that had happened in laboratory conditions, you have to admit that it would constitute solid proof (upon repitition). Repitition of what happened would have been nice but the probability of someone getting not one but three completely random objects out of thin air, and in the right order no less, is impossibly astronomical. As far as I'm concerned, I have my proof.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
    #537753 -

You still seem to be ignoring the fact that not everyone would want all of that attention.
Forget everyone. How about 1 out of 6,600,000,000? Yes, if I were a psychic, I would rather set up a little cottage on some back street with a funky sign outside and make $30 per reading off of some rube.

If that had happened in laboratory conditions, you have to admit that it would constitute solid proof (upon repitition).
Agreed.

As I previously stated, your story is interesting and obviously has emotional meaning for you (are we soulmates connected on same mystic level?) and may be indicative of something. However, would you have reported it if she failed? No.

So millions of non-incidences (misses) don't get reported and a story like yours does. I have guessed 3 cards randomly pulled from a deck. The odds of that are 1/140608, well beyond chance it seems. Of course everyone was totally amazed and convinced that I am indeed a Swami. Having played that game untold times and having missed guessing even the first card on most occasions, well you get the picture...

Shifting gears to another subject for a moment was the infamous Phoenix Lights. Some 10,000 people were totally certain that they had witnessed UFOs when it turned out to be military flares. Feelings of certainty do not equal truth and reality.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537786 -

I can bake a kick ass mother fucker weed brownie, maybe the best in North America, but I'm not coming forward to demonstrate this talent. I can gut a man and hang his carcass in my closet without getting queezy, but I'm not coming forward to demonstrate this either. I can also hack the governments most encrypted files, but guess what? I'm not going to make a spectacle of myself for that either.

Having actual psychic abilities would not be like doing a triple whatever the hell you were talking about on the uneven bars.

By the way, I don't do any of those things above, not even the brownie. :sad: 


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Edited by Ulysees (02/01/02 12:25 PM)

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
    #537800 -

Thank you for your relevance.

To anyone who wins the Swami Challenge, I will send you my power object in a plain, brown wrapper and will NOT alert the media so as to keep your super-hero secret identity intact.

So far I have satisfied every counter-argument and still there are no takers only talkers. *Yawn*


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (02/01/02 01:41 PM)

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537806 -

Well I sincerely hope that someone does come forward to claim that prize. I still think that any true psychic would not " rather set up a little cottage on some back street with a funky sign outside and make $30 per reading off of some rube. " A person with real esp ability would rather do nothing and go about their lives as a normal person. After that experience I felt differerntly about my friend, we were still friends and she was one of the nicest people I've ever met but I still always felt a little strange around her. How would you like people to feel differently about you and treat you differently because they thought you were psychic? You wouldn't, and nobody else would want that to happen to them either.
About guessing the cards, I have a harder time believing that is possible anyway, although it's no less interesting. What I experienced is a totally different phenomenon, not seeing into the future but some kind of mental connection between two people.
Here's an interesting thing to ponder, quantum entanglement. You've got two quantum particles, one spin up, the other spin down. You move one particle clear across the universe and change the spin, the other instantly changes it's spin to opposite the spin of the other. Also, researchers have recently been able to generate entanglement of macroscopic objects (samples of caesium gas of 10^12 atoms), although it only lasts for .5 milliseconds. So, how do we account for this? There are two schools of thought now, one is that there's some kind of faster than light communication going on (violating the theory of relativity), the other states that all particles in the universe are connected in some way that we don't currently understand to form a seamless whole. I lean towards the seamless whole view of the universe myself. If we can already demonstrate some kind of communication between distant macroscopic objects, why couldn't there be communication between the minds of two distant people? Time will tell I suppose.
I'm not even sure that if there were evidence for esp that it would be accepted. ESP violates all of the physical laws that we are accustomed to, evidence would be met with violent opposition and accusations of doctoring the results. If you told a child that there were evidence of esp, they would probably just reply "Cool." Adults on the other hand have a hard time accepting things that go against their long held beliefs. If anyone has ever read the book IT by Stephen King, then you'll remember how one of the adults died instantly after laying eyes on the creature's true self, because his brain just simply couldn't handle the fact that something that violated everything that he held to be true, was right in front of him. In the book, children were the only ones able to actually gaze upon the creature without dying, because they didn't have the years and years of experience screaming to them that it just couldn't be true. Anyway, we'll have an answer one day I suppose.

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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537809 -

If my post wasn't relevant, how was yours about gymnasts and whatnot relevant? My post was entirely relevent.

Lets say I proved to the world that I could astro-project, read minds, whatever. I proved it to a panel of judges recognized by the US government, there's no denying I'm psychic.
How long would it take before I was in Cuba reading prisoners minds? In Afghanistan probing caves? That's not where it ends of course, there's plenty of work to be done.


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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537816 -

Thank you for your relevance.

To anyone who wins the Swami Challenge, I will send you my power object in a plain, brown wrapper and will NOT alert the media so as to keep your super-hero secret identitiy intact.

So far I have satisfied every counter-argument and still there are no takers only talkers. *Yawn*

Pardon me, but what makes you so think anyone gives a shit about you or your challenge? I don't have any psychic abilities, and I too doubt that anyone here could win your challenge, but if I could I wouldn't be too concerned with the likes of you.


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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
    #537817 -

You still haven't proved to my satisfaction that what happened could have occured by pure chance. I could have picked any object in the world to draw, endless possibilities. The chance that someone would get three hits in a row out of countless possibilities like that is unfathomable. That's nothing like picking three cards out of a deck and naming them beforehand. Of course there are millions and millions of untold failed experiments, but that still gets nowhere near the amount of experiments that would have to be performed in order to expect three hits in a row like that to arise from pure chance. It is just so unlikely that it almost isn't even worth considering.

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