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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: ]
    #1017456 -

Yes, it is equally wrong, we should be doing everything for free..."free"dom

I think you may have forgotten about mediocrity.
It's a big problem in socialism and communism.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Sclorch]
    #15107018 -

The reason is none of the stated explanations in the first post.

The reason is that while in the full mushroom-induced telepathic state you are extremely vulnerable. You cannot control it, you can't choose what goes out from your head. It's like the boundaries between your ego and those you are telepathically connected with disappear, it's like you're inside each others heads.

Just imagine what that feels like. At first when it happens you are amazed, but after a while you start thinking about your dirty innermost secrets, and you just can't help thinking about them. Thinking "Oh no, I mustn't think about this or that" only makes it worse. You are totally exposed. It's like having your mind raped.

Because of this, very few people that have experienced the full ramifications of this state care for repeating it (once they've repeated it enough times to establish that they are real, that is).

So, besides finding someone with the ability to go into the mushroom-induced telepathic state, which is rare enough as it is, that person also needs to be completely free from dirty secrets. Not to mention that the Randi test must be repeated several times. Would you let yourself get raped several times for $1000,000?

Edited by Pasco (09/20/11 03:05 PM)

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
    #15107813 -

The answer may lie with Uri Geller, know much of him Swami?


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: WScott]
    #15108207 -

I know he bends spoons with his hand. Real men bend railroad spikes or horseshoes with their hands. I am currently stuck at the paper clip level.


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Sclorch]
    #15108591 -

Sclorch said:
Yes, it is equally wrong, we should be doing everything for free..."free"dom

I think you may have forgotten about mediocrity.
It's a big problem in socialism and communism. 


I too had forgotten about this thread.

Then again it's been eight fucking years.

Five Years.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #15108761 -

I would totally get raped to prove telepathy to the world. I'd give my life screaming if I could advance society in such a manner. But, it's never gonna happen because it's an illusionary perception only.


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Namaste

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: RedNucleus]
    #15110308 -

First. read my signature for my telepathic experience.

telepathy and intuition go hand  in hand. if i am in my sober state i have more of a sharp intuition rather than mind reading capabilities.  i can just tell if i should talk to someone or not just by their vibes they put out but it comes at a price; i get anxiety around a group of people i dont know cause everyones vibes are too much and can get overwhelming. For telepathy to work successfully really all depends on the person because i believe some people are better senders or better receivers or good at both but when it happens it is so like “wtf am i crazy but did that just happen?!?!”… people who are good at both or senders are easier for me to read their thoughts and then some people i can i have a conversations with if the connection is right. you can really tell by peoples personalities also because most senders are really talkative and receivers are more kept to themselves. the most important part of the whole thing is to do it with someone you love and feel comfortable with.


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I'd much rather have a internal, telepathic escapade with my lover. It's like fiber-optic wires connect our brains into one conciseness and our imagination is our playground. It's the most beautiful thing i have ever experienced. -Me


"The only real valuable thing is intuition.”
-Albert Einstein
http://salamisticks.tumblr.com

Edited by KTexas (09/21/11 02:50 AM)

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Pasco]
    #15110799 -

You cannot control it, you can't choose what goes out from your head

You disregard the fact that many claimants insist they CAN control it and do it on demand every time they trip. Are you calling them liars? Cuz I am. :shrug:

the Randi test must be repeated several times

Perhaps you haven't bothered to read the JREF rules before critiquing them.

The Randi test (like numerous others around the world in case you don't like Randi) requires it be repeated exactly often enough to rule out a lucky win from random chance, not a single time more. Is that not a fair and reasonable standard?

Would you let yourself get raped several times for $1000,000?

Ah, this must be some strange new usage of the word "rape" I hadn't previously been aware of. An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway = rape. Got it. I'll forward this to Merriam-Webster.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15110835 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
I know he bends spoons with his hand. Real men bend railroad spikes or horseshoes with their hands. I am currently stuck at the paper clip level.


I meant what he talked about in regard to audience interaction, and how the collective intention of the audience played a roll in how successful his 'tricks' were. He failed that one time (but I know not the only time) on Johnny Carson, perhaps because the whole premise of the show was to test his ability, whilst being critical, perhaps unopened to Uri.

Would the stage of Randi's experiment not be proper grounds for certain abilities to be demonstrated for the reason of them being... unsupported by those observing? No man is an island, I've heard.


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: WScott]
    #15110872 -

I think;

A large group of people are frauding and out to make money (incl Uri Geller).

A small group have experienced it and are shitting bricks.

I doubt it's consistently reproducible because that would need full knowledge of what induces telepathy. That's how you can always repeat a science experiment, your knowledge encompasses the experiment. We don't know jack shit about what telepathy is and all the fuckwits claiming to bend spoons do it a grave injustice.


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111192 -

Diploid said:
You cannot control it, you can't choose what goes out from your head

You disregard the fact that many claimants insist they CAN control it and do it on demand every time they trip. Are you calling them liars? Cuz I am. :shrug:

the Randi test must be repeated several times

Perhaps you haven't bothered to read the JREF rules before critiquing them.

The Randi test (like numerous others around the world in case you don't like Randi) requires it be repeated exactly often enough to rule out a lucky win from random chance, not a single time more. Is that not a fair and reasonable standard?

Would you let yourself get raped several times for $1000,000?

Ah, this must be some strange new usage of the word "rape" I hadn't previously been aware of. An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway = rape. Got it. I'll forward this to Merriam-Webster.


1. I cannot speak for others, I can only speak from personal experience. My personal experiences indicate that it cannot or is extremely difficult to control. I have never spoken to a person that has been able to control it, but I have spoken to several people that have had identical experiences to mine, detailing specifics that would be unknown to someone that hasn't had the experience.

It seems possible to me that many years of meditation practice would give you at least the control not to think anything when things go bad.

2. I have read the rules for the Randi test. Before you may actually enter the real test you must first perform an initial test in your own country. That is several times. It also seems very likely that more tests will be demanded.

3. I do not care for your quibbling, obviously there is a difference between the literal use of the word "rape" and when it's being used in a descriptive sense like "it feels like your mind is being raped" (see the last part in the third paragraph of my previous post).

As for the statement "An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway", I simply don't understand what you're talking about. When and where have I said that this is something I do all the time?

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: WScott]
    #15111259 -

Quote:
Would the stage of Randi's experiment not be proper grounds for certain abilities to be demonstrated for the reason of them being... unsupported by those observing? No man is an island, I've heard.


So you are promoting my much joked about S-Rays? (Skeptical Radiation)

If a person can do amazing stuff in front of a room full of believers, but not under close scrutiny, how is that a case for special ability and not a case for suggestion, gullibility and ignorance?

Did you know that I can do amazing stuff in front a room full of 3 year olds, but not adults?

Do not profesional athletes do nearly super human feats on front of an audience?


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Pasco]
    #15111515 -

My personal experiences indicate that it cannot or is extremely difficult to control

So be it. That doesn't change the fact that some people (many Shroomerites in fact) claim to do it on demand. Unless they're liars, they should be able to do it for the JREF and pocket a million bucks. But all they ever do is blab about doing it, and that's telling.

I have read the rules for the Randi test. Before you may actually enter the real test you must first perform an initial test in your own country. That is several times.

Correction: that is TWO times.

And for the record, the pre-test was created because whiny claimants complained that it wasn't fair to make them come all the way to the JREF in south Florida to take the test. In response to the whiners, the JREF created the pre-test. That saves them the expense and trouble of coming to Florida for the formal test if it turns out that they can't actually do what they say they can do.

So what we have is a bunch of mystic-heads complaining about something, then when they're accommodated, they complain about the accommodation. "It's not fair making me go all the way to Florida. Whaaaahhhhh! And it's not fair bringing the test to me either. Whaaaahhhhh!"

It also seems very likely that more tests will be demanded.

Bullshit. Show me where this appears in the rules. The truth is that the test protocol is PROPOSED BY THE CLAIMANT, not the JREF. The number of tests and format of the test is whatever the claimant wants it to be. The JREF only requires that it's statistically valid and there's no cheating. Period.

JREF is not out to fail people. It's out to find the truth, whatever it may be.

I do not care for your quibbling

Then don't use hyperbole. Being asked to demonstrate what you claim you can do is not "rape".

"An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway", I simply don't understand what you're talking about. When and where have I said that this is something I do all the time?

Nowhere. That's why I used the phrase "many claimants" and not "you".

If your magical powers are of a lessor sort, alright then. But many people claim superior powers demonstrable on demand (but refuse to demonstrate them to the JREF). :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111560 -

May I nominate a certain poster for 'The Reading Comprehension Alert of The Month' award?

And why does poor reading comprehension seem to go hand-in-hand with alleged telepathic abilities?


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111571 -

Quote:
Being asked to demonstrate what you claim you can do is not "rape".



What if you are nekked and covered in oil and in a men's prison shower while performing the ESP test?


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15111691 -

Uh... yeah well, you got  me there. :razz:

But generally, when in a debate someone resorts to drastic hyperbole (test of magical powers = rape), it's a sure sign that they know their position is lacking, and they're being intellectually dishonest, seeking to win the debate rather then converge on the truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111698 -

I did not know that.

:themoreyouknow:


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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111772 -

Quote:
Diploid said:So be it. That doesn't change the fact that some people (many Shroomerites in fact) claim to do it on demand. Unless they're liars, they should be able to do it for the JREF and pocket a million bucks. But all they ever do is blab about doing it, and that's telling.

I am not familiar with shroomery culture. However, I have seen many posts by people on other forums, and the vast majority are obviously imagining things, seeing connections where they want to see them. So what makes me different than any other random person posting on forums? Nothing, from your perspective, and that is perfectly reasonable. I would be lying if I said that doesn't frustrate me, but there is nothing I can do about that. Still, knowing I won't be believed has rarely stopped me from speaking my mind of things such as these anyway.

Correction: that is TWO times.

I am Swedish, english is my second language. To a swede the natural interpretation of "several" would be "more than one", but I see now that it actually means "more than two". Peculiar.

And for the record, the pre-test was created because whiny claimants complained that it wasn't fair to make them come all the way to the JREF in south Florida to take the test. In response to the whiners, the JREF created the pre-test. That saves them the expense and trouble of coming to Florida for the formal test if it turns out that they can't actually do what they say they can do.

So what we have is a bunch of mystic-heads complaining about something, then when they're accommodated, they complain about the accommodation. "It's not fair making me go all the way to Florida... and it's not fair bringing the test to me either. Whaaaahhhhh!"

The pre-test is of course necessary. I am simply pointing out that you would have to go through a traumatizing event that I would compare to being raped more than ONE time if you wanted to prove genuine mushroom-induced telepathy to Randi.

Bullshit. Show me where this appears in the rules. The truth is that the test protocol is PROPOSED BY THE CLAIMANT, not the JREF. The number of tests and format of the test is whatever the claimant wants it to be. The JREF only requires that it's statistically valid and there's no cheating. Period.

JREF is not out to fail people. It's out to find the truth, whatever it may be.

Do you not think it is likely that JREF would, beforehand, demand more than one test in order to rule out cheating?

Then don't use hyperbole. Being asked to demonstrate what you claim you can do is not "rape".

I am not familiar with the word "hyperbole", however a search generated the result "overstatement or understatement", is this correct? Then I do not believe I have done this, I would definitely compare the genuine telepathy experience to being psychologically raped.

Nowhere. That's why I used the phrase "many claimants" and not "you".

Actually you said "many claimants" in a different context, at the beginning of your post, and the full quote of you would be "An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway = rape", suggesting you were talking about me.

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Pasco]
    #15111817 -

Do you not think it is likely that JREF would, beforehand, demand more than one test in order to rule out cheating?

The claimant proposes how many tests. The JREF will demand only enough to ensure that a lucky win due to random chance will almost-certainly not occur.

Why would you expect any less? It's a test of magical powers, not a test of how lucky someone is on random chance.

Actually you said "many claimants" in a different context, at the beginning of your post, and the full quote of you would be "An offer to make you rich for simply doing what you say you do all the time anyway = rape", suggesting you were talking about me.

I was careful not to refer to you specifically, but OK, maybe I wasn't clear enough. To clarify, I'm referring to the many people who claim to do this all the time, easily, and on demand. In the years I've been here, many Shroomerites have claimed this ability.

When they're pressed on why they don't go get rich at JREF, they make assorted excuses along the lines that money is not important to them, and they feel no need to prove anything to the world. Then they proceed for many pages trying to convince Shroomery members of their powers and complain about having to go to work the next day.

EVERY SINGLE CLAIM of magical powers that is amenable to testing has fallen flat on its face when tested. Can you see how that would make me highly skeptical of these claims?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Diploid]
    #15111858 -

BTW, understand that telepathy COULD be tested with statistical near-certainty with a single test.

For example, the transmitter is given a large random number, say a 30-digit random number, then the receiver must state that number with no more than two digits in error. The probability of that happening by chance is practically zero, and so anyone passing that test would win the money, rock the scientific world to its core, and forever change the world and the course of human events.

This is a test the RJEF would find acceptable. It seems simple enough if telepathy is real. Very hard if telepathy is bullshit. No one has ever done it. Does that tell you something? It tells ME something.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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