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 mm.
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 Telepathy for non-believers 
#535800 - 01/30/02 10:58 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.fastnet.co.uk/pms/real_x.htm
Here some science to show not only that telepathy is possible (through ELF or Extremely Low Frequncey radio waves emited by the brain) but also that ELF can be used to actually influence someones emotional state, and even make them hear voices. A lot of research has been done in this area by the US and Soviet scientists, and I suspect their motives might not be for the common good
here's some google searches for you:
woodpecker elf mind control
phone elf microwave
TV elf mind
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postanaldrip
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 Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#535845 - 01/30/02 11:46 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The ability to develop telepathic skills resides in each one of us. The majority of humanity is to quick to speculate and discredit telepathy. If the mind is closed to the possibilities of thought communication, no progress can possibly be made. For example, if my friend Pete says that he wants to see scientifically backed proof before he'll truly believe in telepathy, he will never be a believer. If Pete keeps this frame of mind he will never utilize telepathy. The only true proof of its existence is personal experience. First become a believer, then study the subject, and finally practice some techniques with a like minded friend in order to generate undeniable evidence. Have patients, it will take some practice, but the results are phenomenal. Create your own proof.
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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC
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 Ulysees
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#535984 - 01/30/02 01:50 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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PGF posted something about a treaty the US had to sign (I believe) saying that they couldn't utilize space (as in above our atmosphere) for weapons of any kind. On the list was ELF and ULF, and it said something about using them for "mind control" or population control or something to that effect. It's in Political Discussion I think, I'll try and find it. (Unless I forget or get lazy.)
These things seem to be real, I don't know much about them though. Very interesting.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: postanaldrip]
#536370 - 01/30/02 09:14 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The ability to develop telepathic skills resides in each one of us.
This has yet to be demonstrated.
The majority of humanity is to quick to speculate and discredit telepathy.
Um, because no one can do it?
If the mind is closed to the possibilities of thought communication, no progress can possibly be made.
And if one's mind is wide-open, he will see telepathy where there is none.
For example, if my friend Pete says that he wants to see scientifically backed proof before he'll truly believe in telepathy, he will never be a believer.
Valid processes work whether you believe in them or not. Don't believe in the gun that I am holding in my hand? It will wound or kill you anyway.
The only true proof of its existence is personal experience.
Which is why I suggested a valid test here with a grand prize that few want to participate in, knowing that they will fail.
First become a believer,
You don't make any sense. As you state above, one needs personal experience to become a believer, but you need to be a believer first in order to have the personal experience that will make you a believer... I am getting dizzy!
then study the subject, and finally practice some techniques with a like minded friend in order to generate undeniable evidence.
Yes, like minded, so that when your guesses are close you can say it works and when they are not you can find a reason why they don't.
Have patients, it will take some practice, but the results are phenomenal. Create your own proof.
Have tried on this board to get some undeniable evidence, but there is just the usual flapping of gums (or clicking of keys in this case) but negligible action.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Traveller
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#536386 - 01/30/02 09:35 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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interesting reading.
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postanaldrip
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536435 - 01/30/02 11:02 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Swami,
Have you ever tried or practiced telepathy?
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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC
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postanaldrip
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536441 - 01/30/02 11:14 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Are you trying to say telepathy is non existant?
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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: postanaldrip]
#536464 - 01/30/02 11:51 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you outright deny the existance of something, then it will surely not exist..for you.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#536468 - 01/30/02 11:55 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
A lot of research has been done in this area by the US and Soviet scientists, and I suspect their motives might not be for the common good
Ahh...you should be used to it by now. The government has been manipulating brain wave patterns for a good 50 years now, and the Nephilim thousands before that. I blame TV for the zombies.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: ]
#536472 - 01/30/02 11:58 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have covered this extensively. External reality does exist. Deny the existence of gravity and jump out of a high-rise to see what happens...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Traveller]
#536476 - 01/31/02 12:00 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Interesting, but note that the CIA abandoned remote-viewing research. That is because it did not bear fruit.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536478 - 01/31/02 12:03 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Exactly.
Deny that telepathy exists and don't act surprised when everyone stops talking.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: postanaldrip]
#536479 - 01/31/02 12:04 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes to your previous question.
I am not "trying" to say anything. I AM saying it. No one is able to demonstrate telepathy.
No more talk! Take the Swami challenge and win the prize. Words mean nothing, action means everything.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536482 - 01/31/02 12:06 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Swami challenge is a clairvoyancy test not telepathy, different mind senses altogether.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: ]
#536505 - 01/31/02 12:30 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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If as I amended, that a believer come here and transmit a picture of the object to another believer, is that not telepathy? And a perfectly valid test?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536520 - 01/31/02 12:52 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes that would indeed be telepathy. I would think the test would best be conducted if the receiving party and the sending party knew each other and had a connection.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: ]
#536531 - 01/31/02 01:16 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fine. I encourage it as long as I can witness to make sure no electronic communication is possible.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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mm.
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536626 - 01/31/02 04:17 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Interesting, but note that the CIA abandoned remote-viewing research. That is because it did not bear fruit.
You should get your facts right Swami. Go and read the unclassified DIA reports if you dont believe me. The Russians were always miles ahead in this area anyway.
Are you claiming that telepathy is not possible, or that it has not been repeated in the lab to your satisfaction.
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Edited by mm. (01/31/02 04:32 AM)
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#536686 - 01/31/02 07:54 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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You should get your facts right Swami. Go and read the unclassified DIA reports if you dont believe me. The Russians were always miles ahead in this area anyway.
Ah, pardon me. It worked so well that they abandoned the research.
Are you claiming that telepathy is not possible, or that it has not been repeated in the lab to your satisfaction.
I sincerely don't know if you have not read any other posts here regarding telepathy, have a very short attention span, or enjoy hearing the same thing over and over.
I have made my stance on this abundantly clear on about a dozen occasions. I make no claims that anything is impossible because a negative can never be proven. However, telepathy has not been repeated to my nor the vast majority of science's satisfaction.
Once again, note that James Randi's $10,000,000 still goes unclaimed and my v-e-r-y simple test proposed here (and amended as per suggestions from believers) is largely ignored. People would rather, talk, hyperbolize, postulate, theorize, blah, blah, blah, anything at all to avoid demonstration.
There is an age-old cliche that still holds up. "The proof is in the pudding."
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The proof is in the pudding.
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536703 - 01/31/02 08:20 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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For what it's worth, I'll share one of the strangest things that's ever happened to me. Of course, one could just dismiss my story as an outright lie but that's ok with me, I know what happened. In high school I had a friend named Amy.. We were both pretty disenchanted with all of our classes and spent our time talking and reading instead of listening in our english class. While talking on the phone one night we got on the subject of telepathy and she mentioned that she had some strange experiences and thought that she might have a real talent. So, being of an open scientific mind, I proposed a standard experiment where I would draw a picture and concentrate on it, and she would try and replicate what I drew. So, I picked up a piece of paper and something to write on.. First I thought I would draw a pentagram, but decided against it. Then, I thought I would draw a picture of a little house, but I decided not to do that as well. Finally I settled on an arrow. I drew the arrow and concentrated on it. She was quiet for a little while and then she says that she has a few things, but they're kind of strange.. I said ok, what did you get.. She then says well, the first thing that I got was an anarchy sign (I was shocked but remained silent), then she said she had a picture of four squares with a triangle on top (even more shocked, still silent), finally she says that she has an arrow drawn (but in the opposite direction as mine). I told her what my thought process was and she was less suprised than I was, she already knew that she had a talent. So.. I have still not had anyone come up with a plausible explanation for what happened. It still blows my mind to this day. Anyway, believe it or not, it's up to you. It's nice however to have personal proof of something that so many people deny the existence of.
Edited by NeonBlack (01/31/02 08:22 AM)
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#536727 - 01/31/02 09:11 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't deny your story nor the results. However, if your results had been negative we would never hear your story. I postulate that many millions of people have played games similar to yours with negative results. These people would NOT post these events. The ones like yourself, that had hits, are convinced something magical just happened. Am I saying it didn't? No. But selective memory is a known psychological trait. This is where one would "forget" or find some reason to disregard the multitude of times when mental connection with another human being failed. Your personal experience is only a starting point and indicative of a possiblity, nothing more.
You and Amy should take the Swami Challenge or the Randi Challenge and take home the prize.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MAIA
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536830 - 01/31/02 11:11 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In reply to:
" if your results had been negative we would never hear your story. I postulate that many millions of people have played games similar to yours with negative results. These people would NOT post these events. The ones like yourself, that had hits, are convinced something magical just happened. Am I saying it didn't? No. But selective memory is a known psychological trait. This is where one would "forget" or find some reason to disregard the multitude of times when mental connection with another human being failed. Your personal experience is only a starting point and indicative of a possiblity, nothing more. "
...and you previously said:
In reply to:
"People would rather, talk, hyperbolize, postulate, theorize, blah, blah, blah,..."
You show the same pattern of thought, just on the oposite side.
THAT story stated the FACT that she explained the end result,also the FACT she knew the process of thought and also te FACT she was distant, still that's not enough for you to admit telepathy exists. The need for a scientific explanation is relative on this subject because science has a small understanding on how the brain works, to proove the existence OR non existence of telepathy, science has to be able to fully justify each synapse, each eat change etc inside our brain, it still can't. It's like a modern clock falling into the hands of a nerdenthal, he can see a bunch numbers, wich don't represent nothing to him, eventually he can realize that the numbers change constantly but can't relate it with time, then the battery goes off and his mind gets all messed up trying to understand why it doesn't work anymore.
What you want is the a "circus" having two guys facing each other and trying to find what they are thinking, people aplaud or people leave the building. That's not my idea of prooving the existence of telepathy, anyway i don't need that proof because telepathy happened before between me and my younger brother several times when we were young. We played a game a couple of times where one of us hide an object without the other one seeing, then we just concentrate on the object, and then the one not seeing went trying to find it without the presence of who hide it, we both managed to find the object right away many times. Other FACTS include my brother answering (loud) to questions i was thinking to my self or even start singing the same song at the same time without any aparent reason, this kind of situation happened many times but this skills fade away when we grew up.
So as you see i don't need a prize or challenge to proove what i allready know. Telepathy exists, maybe not in your world of "scientific explanation for everyting" or in Howard Stern show, but it exists.
Peace,
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: MAIA]
#536847 - 01/31/02 11:28 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I understand. No one "needs" $10,000,000. People would rather work 60 hour weeks for 45 years and buy lotto tickets than "proove" what they already know.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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mm.
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536862 - 01/31/02 11:42 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you have a link with more info on that..
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MAIA
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536863 - 01/31/02 11:45 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not everybody would like to be a guinea pig you know. Sometimes it's hard to be accepted just because your diferent and if you can, you would try not to show that diference, just like hiding a scar in your forehead with your hair, some prefer peace in their lives than peace in their pockets.
I'm just happy i don't have that skills anymore, it was fun when it happened and it will be remembered, nothing else.
Peace,
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#536874 - 01/31/02 11:59 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
Pardon my error - it is $1,000,000 not $10,000,000.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#536880 - 01/31/02 12:15 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cool I think I'll sign up for that, of course I need to work on my Telekenetic Electrical Storm before I take the challenge, but I will short out all of their equipment with mind power 
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: ]
#536893 - 01/31/02 12:34 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do it!
Note that Slyvia Browne (the famous "psychic") signed up then backed down - go figure. Didn't even attempt it.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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NeonBlack
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 Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: MAIA]
#536943 - 01/31/02 01:39 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's very true. I'm of the opinion that anyone with real talent is not going to come forward. My friend often told me thereafter that she really didn't like the things that she could do and would never want to come forward in any way. Think about how strange it would be to have documented scientific proof of esp.. It would turn the world upside down. I don't think that anyone would like to be the focal point of something like that. If I could do that, I wouldn't say anthing to anyone either.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#537594 - 02/01/02 07:51 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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First off, Slyvia Browne voluntarily signed up. No one talked her into it. After realizing that she could not possibly dupe the panel of experts, she did not even make an attempt.
I'm of the opinion that anyone with real talent is not going to come forward.
Yes, if I could do a triple flyaway dismount from the high bars, I most certainly would NOT go to the Olympics to show the world my extraordinary gymnastic talent.
If I practiced 5 hours a day on the piano for 10 years, I most certainly would NOT give a public concert, but would just play for myself at home.
Your opinion on this matter goes against the nature of every single human being on this planet. We all have egos and love to be appreciated for our uniqueness.
A more plausible stance is : It JUST doesn't work!
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/01/02 09:03 AM)
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mm.
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537624 - 02/01/02 08:32 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Imagine being the first person to demonstrate telepathy. The attention such a person would get from the public, media and government might not be for everyone. In fact the most egotistical people who would jump at such an opportunity might be the very people who are least able to utilise paranormal abilities.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: mm.]
#537656 - 02/01/02 09:14 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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In fact the most egotistical people who would jump at such an opportunity might be the very people who are least able to utilise paranormal abilities.
And you base this on what? Absolutely nothing at all. This is just more lame excuses.
If I were so spiritually advanced that I had strong telepathic ability, but no longer needed an ego-stroking, I would STILLwin the million dollars and give it to the charity of my choice to do some good.
I put the weak arguments postulated on this thread right along side the weak arguments I hear for maintaining the War on Drugs. I see the same lack of critical thinking and examination.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/01/02 09:16 AM)
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537737 - 02/01/02 11:10 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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You still seem to be ignoring the fact that not everyone would want all of that attention. I'm sure that it would not be at all pleasant. A million dollars wouldn't be enough to warrant the kind of hassle a person would go through if they demonstrated their ability. Think about it, these people have nothing to prove to anyone, what do they care if someone believes them or not? They don't, because they know the truth. As for the "weak arguments," the fact that what happened to me actually occured is proof enough for me that there is indeed something to extra sensory perception. I have tried and tried to debunk what happened, but I just can't. If that had happened in laboratory conditions, you have to admit that it would constitute solid proof (upon repitition). Repitition of what happened would have been nice but the probability of someone getting not one but three completely random objects out of thin air, and in the right order no less, is impossibly astronomical. As far as I'm concerned, I have my proof.
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#537753 - 02/01/02 11:41 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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You still seem to be ignoring the fact that not everyone would want all of that attention.
Forget everyone. How about 1 out of 6,600,000,000? Yes, if I were a psychic, I would rather set up a little cottage on some back street with a funky sign outside and make $30 per reading off of some rube.
If that had happened in laboratory conditions, you have to admit that it would constitute solid proof (upon repitition).
Agreed.
As I previously stated, your story is interesting and obviously has emotional meaning for you (are we soulmates connected on same mystic level?) and may be indicative of something. However, would you have reported it if she failed? No.
So millions of non-incidences (misses) don't get reported and a story like yours does. I have guessed 3 cards randomly pulled from a deck. The odds of that are 1/140608, well beyond chance it seems. Of course everyone was totally amazed and convinced that I am indeed a Swami. Having played that game untold times and having missed guessing even the first card on most occasions, well you get the picture...
Shifting gears to another subject for a moment was the infamous Phoenix Lights. Some 10,000 people were totally certain that they had witnessed UFOs when it turned out to be military flares. Feelings of certainty do not equal truth and reality.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ulysees
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537786 - 02/01/02 12:23 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can bake a kick ass mother fucker weed brownie, maybe the best in North America, but I'm not coming forward to demonstrate this talent. I can gut a man and hang his carcass in my closet without getting queezy, but I'm not coming forward to demonstrate this either. I can also hack the governments most encrypted files, but guess what? I'm not going to make a spectacle of myself for that either.
Having actual psychic abilities would not be like doing a triple whatever the hell you were talking about on the uneven bars.
By the way, I don't do any of those things above, not even the brownie. 
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Edited by Ulysees (02/01/02 12:25 PM)
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Swami
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537800 - 02/01/02 12:42 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thank you for your relevance.
To anyone who wins the Swami Challenge, I will send you my power object in a plain, brown wrapper and will NOT alert the media so as to keep your super-hero secret identity intact.
So far I have satisfied every counter-argument and still there are no takers only talkers. *Yawn*
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/01/02 01:41 PM)
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537806 - 02/01/02 01:00 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well I sincerely hope that someone does come forward to claim that prize. I still think that any true psychic would not " rather set up a little cottage on some back street with a funky sign outside and make $30 per reading off of some rube. " A person with real esp ability would rather do nothing and go about their lives as a normal person. After that experience I felt differerntly about my friend, we were still friends and she was one of the nicest people I've ever met but I still always felt a little strange around her. How would you like people to feel differently about you and treat you differently because they thought you were psychic? You wouldn't, and nobody else would want that to happen to them either.
About guessing the cards, I have a harder time believing that is possible anyway, although it's no less interesting. What I experienced is a totally different phenomenon, not seeing into the future but some kind of mental connection between two people.
Here's an interesting thing to ponder, quantum entanglement. You've got two quantum particles, one spin up, the other spin down. You move one particle clear across the universe and change the spin, the other instantly changes it's spin to opposite the spin of the other. Also, researchers have recently been able to generate entanglement of macroscopic objects (samples of caesium gas of 10^12 atoms), although it only lasts for .5 milliseconds. So, how do we account for this? There are two schools of thought now, one is that there's some kind of faster than light communication going on (violating the theory of relativity), the other states that all particles in the universe are connected in some way that we don't currently understand to form a seamless whole. I lean towards the seamless whole view of the universe myself. If we can already demonstrate some kind of communication between distant macroscopic objects, why couldn't there be communication between the minds of two distant people? Time will tell I suppose.
I'm not even sure that if there were evidence for esp that it would be accepted. ESP violates all of the physical laws that we are accustomed to, evidence would be met with violent opposition and accusations of doctoring the results. If you told a child that there were evidence of esp, they would probably just reply "Cool." Adults on the other hand have a hard time accepting things that go against their long held beliefs. If anyone has ever read the book IT by Stephen King, then you'll remember how one of the adults died instantly after laying eyes on the creature's true self, because his brain just simply couldn't handle the fact that something that violated everything that he held to be true, was right in front of him. In the book, children were the only ones able to actually gaze upon the creature without dying, because they didn't have the years and years of experience screaming to them that it just couldn't be true. Anyway, we'll have an answer one day I suppose.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537809 - 02/01/02 01:03 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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If my post wasn't relevant, how was yours about gymnasts and whatnot relevant? My post was entirely relevent.
Lets say I proved to the world that I could astro-project, read minds, whatever. I proved it to a panel of judges recognized by the US government, there's no denying I'm psychic.
How long would it take before I was in Cuba reading prisoners minds? In Afghanistan probing caves? That's not where it ends of course, there's plenty of work to be done.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537816 - 02/01/02 01:11 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thank you for your relevance.
To anyone who wins the Swami Challenge, I will send you my power object in a plain, brown wrapper and will NOT alert the media so as to keep your super-hero secret identitiy intact.
So far I have satisfied every counter-argument and still there are no takers only talkers. *Yawn*
Pardon me, but what makes you so think anyone gives a shit about you or your challenge? I don't have any psychic abilities, and I too doubt that anyone here could win your challenge, but if I could I wouldn't be too concerned with the likes of you.
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537817 - 02/01/02 01:13 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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You still haven't proved to my satisfaction that what happened could have occured by pure chance. I could have picked any object in the world to draw, endless possibilities. The chance that someone would get three hits in a row out of countless possibilities like that is unfathomable. That's nothing like picking three cards out of a deck and naming them beforehand. Of course there are millions and millions of untold failed experiments, but that still gets nowhere near the amount of experiments that would have to be performed in order to expect three hits in a row like that to arise from pure chance. It is just so unlikely that it almost isn't even worth considering.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
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Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537822 - 02/01/02 01:20 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Example: I see the Swami Challenge. I look into the future and see what happens when I prove to Swami that I am psychic. It's really not that exciting, definately not worth my valuable time.
I look into the future again at my life after winning the lottery or the real psychic challenge prize. I live out my life in annoyance like a gypsy. I see that the money hasn't made me happy at all. I see that all it has got me is the title "Freak", a bunch of paper and perhaps even secret agents trying to recruit me to stop terrorism.
I see a life filled with pain, and I decide not to follow that path. Instead, I move to a remote area, perhaps become a buddhist monk, and live out my life in harmony with all that is. Why would I be concerned with crap like money and taxes and looking good on TV? People often say they wish they had never won the lottery, or got that big (stressful) promotion. Their lives usually suffer. Why would I choose that path if I could see it?
I'm not psychic, but I can see that path very clearly, and I avoid it. Hell, maybe I am psychic, just not the glorified movie type... 
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#537852 - 02/01/02 02:00 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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A person with real esp ability would rather do nothing and go about their lives as a normal person.
And you know this how? You know all the "real" psychics in the world and their motivations? NO! So your point has no validity whatsoever in a discussion of this nature.
Here's an interesting thing to ponder, quantum entanglement. You've got two quantum particles, one spin up, the other spin down. You move one particle clear across the universe and change the spin, the other instantly changes it's spin to opposite the spin of the other.
1. To date no information has been exchanged via this method nor do theorists believe it to be possible.
2. Human beings are not quantum particles.
I'm not even sure that if there were evidence for esp that it would be accepted.
This a common and very weak dodge. You can read the minds of millions and know how they will respond? No! This is similar to your previous point. Please speak for yourself and what you know, don't pretend to know other minds.
evidence would be met with violent opposition and accusations of doctoring the results.
First there has to be evidence!
You are making a horrendously false assumption that ALL scientific researchers have the same mindset. There are Christian scientists that believe in Creationsism and agnostic scientists that believe in Evolution. The same with paranormal abilities and researchers. This is the same falsehood as your other two points stated yet again!
A Stephen King (the king of plageurizers) book?! Do I really need to respond to that?
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/01/02 02:05 PM)
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
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Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537859 - 02/01/02 02:12 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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A Stephen King (the king of plageurizers) book?! Do I really need to respond to that?
He was just using it as an example of the fact that children are more open to strange possibilities, things that adults cannot handle simply because of years of conditioning. We see the same thing every day, in blind patriotism for instance.
If anyone has ever read the book IT by Stephen King, then you'll remember how one of the adults died instantly after laying eyes on the creature's true self, because his brain just simply couldn't handle the fact that something that violated everything that he held to be true, was right in front of him. In the book, children were the only ones able to actually gaze upon the creature without dying, because they didn't have the years and years of experience screaming to them that it just couldn't be true.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537864 - 02/01/02 02:14 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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If my post wasn't relevant, how was yours about gymnasts and whatnot relevant? My post was entirely relevent.
Uh huh. Are you serious?
You state talents that you have, such as the ability to gut someone, that people would most certainly not want others to know about.
I gave other examples of people who developed themselves in some field and were eager to demonstrate their prowess. It is called pride in accomplishment.
If you do something cool at work (like cooking two burgers at once), you certainly want your boss to know about it. One does not hide their talents.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537868 - 02/01/02 02:21 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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You gave only positive examples, which is a flawed method.
I portrayed it in varying degrees. The first was about the brownies. The reason was this: It's a perfectly acceptable thing that isn't accepted by mainstream society.
The second was the gutting: The reason for that was to show the other side, the negative possibility. If I had actual psychic abilities, what makes you think I'd even be interested in something as mundane as guessing lotto numbers and being on TV?
The third was the hacking of government files: This was again to show a broader range of possibilites, and show that one might exhibit fear from Big Brother if Big Brother knew one could look into his secrets.
Your method was biased and flawed. Mine was not. Yes, I am serious.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537874 - 02/01/02 02:28 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, if I could do a triple flyaway dismount from the high bars, I most certainly would NOT go to the Olympics to show the world my extraordinary gymnastic talent.
If I practiced 5 hours a day on the piano for 10 years, I most certainly would NOT give a public concert, but would just play for myself at home.
Your opinion on this matter goes against the nature of every single human being on this planet. We all have egos and love to be appreciated for our uniqueness.
You aren't acknowledging the utter seriousness of the matter. Having true psychic abilities is not the same as being able to cook two burgers at once, do a flip, or play the piano.
I'm not a true believer yet either, just in case you forgot.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537882 - 02/01/02 02:36 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmmmm, let's see...
It's a perfectly acceptable thing that isn't accepted...
This is a template of Ulysees' logic in action. (Hey folks, I don't make this stuff up!)
The first was about the brownies.
The second was the gutting:
The third was the hacking of government files:
Ah, three illegal activities that could get you serious jail time are on an equal footing with a perfectly legal activity that could net you fame and fortune.
Your method was biased and flawed. Mine was not. Yes, I am serious.
*the light finally dawns on poor, feeble-minded Swami*
Yes, my bad. You win Ulysees, your debating skills dwarf mine and I step down from the dias as I hand my mantle over to you.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537898 - 02/01/02 02:54 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmmm, lets see...
It's a perfectly acceptable thing that isn't accepted by mainstream society.
This is a template of Ulysees' logic in action. (Hey folks, I don't make this stuff up!)
There are many perfectly acceptable things that aren't accepted by mainstream society. Anal sex for example. I won't list any more, as there is no point, I think you should understand the statement now.
Ah, three illegal activities that could get you serious jail time are on an equal footing with a perfectly legal activity that could net you fame and fortune.
The point goes sailing past Swami, never to be seen again... Here's a hint: The "legality" had little, if anything to do with it. It might be an abstract concept, but it's not that abstract. (Think more along the lines of "acceptibility", though you'll have to do the rest on your own. I'd chew it for you too, but I'd rather not.)
Your method was biased and flawed. Mine was not. Yes, I am serious.
*the light finally dawns on poor, feeble-minded Swami*
Ah yes, another of the pathetic dodges you people are famous for.
Yes, my bad. You win Ulysees, your debating skills dwarf mine and I step down from the dias as I hand my mantle over to you.
Thanks, but no thanks.
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Edited by Ulysees (02/01/02 02:57 PM)
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cxz
enthusiast
Registered: 01/10/01
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537906 - 02/01/02 03:06 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Double Post
Edited by cxz (02/01/02 03:11 PM)
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cxz
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#537909 - 02/01/02 03:11 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I bet you guys could spend all day trying to push your thoughts on to each other.
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MentalHygene
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#537927 - 02/01/02 03:29 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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-HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT QUANTUM PARTICLES.
Could you explain, in your own words, what human being actually consist of? Keep in mind that the atom might not be the absolute starting point of everything.
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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: cxz]
#538122 - 02/01/02 08:33 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Got another 50 pages to go to win the "Longest Thread on the Shroomery Contest", so sometimes you just need some filler.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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NeonBlack
enthusiast
Registered: 11/23/00
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#538422 - 02/02/02 08:06 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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1. To date no information has been exchanged via this method nor do theorists believe it to be possible.
Wrong. It is accepted that information could be exchanged this way. That's the driving theory behind quantum computing, and quantum transport. Sure, someone probably doesn't believe it could happen, but thousands do. Plus, information has been exchanged, the quantum state of the particles has been transmitted. If that's not information then what is it? As for the comment about Stephen King, he's certainly not the most widely respected author but he did make an interesting observation which I felt was relevant, and that was my point.
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#538427 - 02/02/02 08:20 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The statement about human beings not being quantum particles is ludicrous. MentalHygene makes that point above.. Human beings are built from quantum particles, if not then what are we built from? Not to mention the fact that they generated entanglement between two macroscopic samples of caesium gas, as I mentioned. it doesn't just happen on a small scale.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#538454 - 02/02/02 09:14 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The statement about human beings not being quantum particles is ludicrous.
Not at all Mr. Black. We are built from carbon, but are neither graphite nor diamond. We are built from stardust, but are not suns. Is the Empire State Building a brick?
How many human beings disappear and then instantaneously reappear elsewhere?
The macro has a completetly different set of properties than the quanta.
The thrust of your argument escapes me entirely.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (02/02/02 09:20 AM)
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#538471 - 02/02/02 09:54 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Once again.. Human beings are made up of atoms. Atoms consist of quantum particles. Perhaps I should clarify, human beings are not quantum particles, but we are made up of them. I keep pointing out that researchers have recently demonstrated entanglement between macroscopic objects. The rules governing quantum particles (according to the most recent research anyway) have some bearing on macroscopic objects as well.
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mm.
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#538480 - 02/02/02 10:06 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ever heard of Schrodingers Cat? The idea being that if a cat was put in a box, and was either gassed to death or not, depending on a single quantum event to trigger the mechanism... then that cat would be both alive and dead until someone opened the box to observe either way. The cat would have the same properties as the single particle that determined it's fate.
According to quantum physics, it is perfectly possible for a person to spontaneously disppear and reappear elsewhere, or for your coffee mug to fall right through the table. Such events would be extremely unlikely, but given the number of object interactions occuring, the surprising fact is that we dont observe such things more often.
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MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986
Edited by mm. (02/02/02 10:07 AM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: NeonBlack]
#538482 - 02/02/02 10:09 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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1. To date no information has been exchanged via this method nor do theorists believe it to be possible.
Wrong. It is accepted that information could be exchanged this way. That's the driving theory behind quantum computing, and quantum transport.
I stand corrected. Some theorists believe it possible and some don't. There are other theories behind quantuum computing, not just entanglement.
Plus, information has been exchanged, the quantum state of the particles has been transmitted. If that's not information then what is it?
Your statement is not accurate. When the state of entangled particle A is discovered, the state of particle B is known. The experimenter has no control over the state of particle A thus no data is transmitted.
Let me rephrase this so we don't get bogged down in semantics. To reiterate: No message (a la Marconi's trans-Atlantic radio greeting) has been sent at a distance using the principles of quantuum entanglement at this date.
If you evidence to the contrary, please post the link. No theories or possibilities please, but a bonafide message transmission that has taken place.
As to your unspoken, but intimated comparison that male/female lovers are entangled and thus able to transmit messages; to that I can only say that lovers cheat on each other all the time without getting caught. If they do get caught it is because of a behavioral change, not because the partner sensed it at-a-distance WHILE the infidelity was happening.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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NeonBlack
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Swami]
#538511 - 02/02/02 10:55 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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"As to your unspoken, but intimated comparison that male/female lovers are entangled and thus able to transmit messages; to that I can only say that lovers cheat on each other all the time without getting caught. If they do get caught it is because of a behavioral change, not because the partner sensed it at-a-distance WHILE the infidelity was happening."
Man.. That was so unspoken even I didn't know I was saying that. I really did not mean to make any claim about male/female lovers being able to communicate. That girl and I were never "lovers" in any way in the first place, just good friends (I had a girlfriend at the time). I only mean to state that some kind of link between macroscopic objects has been described, and that maybe it's not too far fetched to imagine people being able to utilize that property somehow. As for the statement that no message has been transmitted, you're absolutely right. Transmission of that kind of data is totally theoretical at this point, but it's completely possible (in theory anyway). Until it's actually done, postulating like this is pretty useless I'll admit. However, it's still an interesting thing to toss around.
Edited by NeonBlack (02/02/02 10:59 AM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Telepathy for non-believers [Re: Ulysees]
#538560 - 02/02/02 11:55 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Example: I see the Swami Challenge. I look into the future and see what happens when I prove to Swami that I am psychic. It's really not that exciting, definately not worth my valuable time.
You wrote 13 lines of text in this one post alone. The Swami Challenge requires a single line of text not running a marathon. How is it wasting more time to write less?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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