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Offlineradio879
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Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa
    #4491015 - 08/03/05 07:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I have a big pdf file about aeruginascin and fuckload of tryptamines and came across this about whats thought to be how the mushroom enzymes go about producing psilocin/etc, here's a pic from it:



I got an email from someone that carried out all kinds of experiments using different amounts of DMT added, checking to see how much of the DMT the mycellium would use before the limit was reached. I think he said anything above 50mg (pure) DMT didnt help any more, but extra DMT didnt hurt either. Depending on which flush, and how long after colonization you left them to sit before fruiting (couple weeks after it "looks" ready was better), some would be 3-5x as potent (the 50mg+ groups), pretty amazing.

Its "said" that adding DMT mostly results in just a lot more psilocin, but you can easily add some phosphoric acid, an equalmolar amount of phosphoric acid added for however much DMT you added wouldn't bring the ph down too low i'd guess (if your just adding some mimosa root bark you could use ph strips), well for psilocybin where's the phosphoric acid come from?

(I've made some solid crystal DMT phosphate before, for each 3 DMT molecules you need one phosphoric acid molecule to make a solid salt, and ph is neutral, but i'd assume for psilocybin you'd want one for one - does anyone know the acceptable ph range for the mushroom growing medium?)

I'm real curious about the addition of DiPT or MiPT also, would just some 4-HO-DiPT etc. come out? or would the 4-phosphoroloxy- versions come out too? 4-AcO-MiPT is quite a different drug than 4-HO-MiPT (similar with DiPT). Too bad I don't have the room to do the expermenting .

Also, in the picture, NMT - there is a kind of DMT containing bark that also has a good amount of NMT, this would be great to experiment with as hopefully you'd get shrooms with more 4-HO-NMT/baeocystin :smile:.

I see all these posts about adding tryptophan, or tryptamine, which are harder to obtain than DMT - shit, 100 grams of mimosa hostilis root bark costs like 15 bucks, put 10 grams ground up in a pint size jar and your set.. I do a lot of DMT extraction but nothing with mushrooms here, maybe I should start researching again and try some of this since I have access to LC/MS to analyse shit - and apparently I never see posts about people doing this... GET SOME DAMN CHEAP MIMOSA BARK!! Man, instead of arguing if it 'works' or not, its cheap, DIRT CHEAP!

This is such a huge forum, I see people talk about trying to boost the potency all the time, i'm suprised people spend all this time..experimenting/growing, but haven't explored much really with adding some mimosa bark, its cheap, easy, no hassles.. i'd love to see more posts about this! Just google mimosa root bark order or whatever, grab a cheap 100g, toss a lil in some jars and see what happens!

Man, i've got like, boxes of mimosa bark "laying around" here, a lot of it I consider too "shitty" for DMT extraction (i like pure DMT and i've got some of the shittiest bark for free, 86% DMT by LC/MS but that 14% is b-carbolines that suck IMO but would be a fine addition to mushroom substrate).

Has ANYONE on here experimented with addition of DMT, or anything else, or just a little mimosa root bark? I'm very curious of the results!

:cool:


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Offlinexburn
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4491178 - 08/03/05 08:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I dont know why you are saying that people never expirement with DMT or Mimosa. This topic was being disscused at length when i first joined. And even today the question gets asked once a week and a growlog comes out every once in a while.

Thant aside, this is an awesome post and i love you. I really like the picture as i am visual spacial and this make my life a lot easier when it comes to understanding.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4491194 - 08/03/05 08:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i'd like that .pdf file, please. Very interested.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4491414 - 08/03/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

here's the pdf:

http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/diss/2004/jensen/jensen.pdf

:smile:

Also forgot to add, also interesting would be to add a NMT containing plant (and possibly phosphoric acid?) also for possibly more baeocystin/4-ho-nmt production (adding NMT alone probably would give some -DMTs too), interesting.

Quote:

Acaica simplex( formerly A.simplicifolia)
In this Acacia tryptamine has been found in a concentration of 3.6%, of which 40% is NMT. 25%DMT in the stem-bark

Desmanthus illinoensis: The Illinois Bundleflower is a perennial herb,
The root bark contains a staggering 25% DMT and 8% NMT, plus minor amounts of N-hydroxy-NMT and 2-hydroxy-NMT . The whole root contains 2% DMT and 0.5% NMT, plus minor amounts of N-hydroxy-NMT and 2-hydroxy-NMT (quoted from TIHKAL, but I doubt the 25% reference).





Yeah uh, i just googled it but that 25% thing is BS don't know 'bout that, but there's a bunch of DMT containing plants that also contain NMT.

I had thought before, adding some HCl acid to make the DMT into a salt form, probably helps it be more water soluble and more useable by the mushie mycellium - but since psilocybin is more stable and well its gotta get phosphor from somewhere, why not add some phosphoric acid instead?  I bought a couple 4oz bottles of phosphoric acid 10% on the web at some "beer store" for like.. 2-3 bucks each.

If anyone's in the mood to experiment, well mimosa root bark is easy to find, but phosphoric acid is easy too if ya find the right store, "BEER" hehe. 

I'm definitely interested in any results.. i know people have added DiPT and other things with success but can't really find much anymore.  If i get a sample, either from me or a friend, addition of AMT/DiPT/whatever, i'd love to analyse it LC/MS to see exactly whats in there and at what percentages.

I do have some old spores in a small jar from years ago.. I should do a little research and inoculate a few jars, add some root bark and/or DMT / phosphoric acid let them sit for a long time and when I get some room ready figure out how to fruit them and everything (done it once..years ago though).


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4492924 - 08/04/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Problem is, even with experiments, no ones got any machines to analyze to get concrete results.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4493463 - 08/04/05 02:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think that people would be able to tell a 3-5x increase in potency. That would mean that 2 grams would equal 6-10grams of regular mushrooms.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4494630 - 08/04/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

OK, well its been experimented with, and no one noticed that sort of potency..look at the bottom of the reply box on this page, under "Related Threads". And anyone can claim something...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4495386 - 08/04/05 03:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I totally agree. I think that my experience relating to potency is summed up by saying that properly made compost gets my favorite strain/isolates as potent as I've ever heard shrooms to get. I've gotten to about 1.5g being a heady dose and 3.5+ being a very strong dose. A three or five-fold potency increase over this type of potency seems like bullshit. It doesn't really give a starting line or cultivation techniques for the control group here. I personally think that adding DMT to a substrate would allow for 4-indolehydroxylation, as stated in the article. How much of this would happen is unknown. I seem to think that their would be some potency increase, maybe not one noticable by human bioassaying.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4497164 - 08/04/05 11:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Thats my thoughts...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4498994 - 08/05/05 08:46 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Oh guess i didnt really mention i DO have access to LC/MS and can have any sample analysed :smile:.

Thats another reason i'd like to do this myself or a friend etc, addition of DMT - can find out how much more psilocin is produced and percentages etc, also i'm VERY curious, because I know it works (adding DET, DiPT, etc) - to see what comes out of mushrooms grown with DiPT added, if its mostly just 4-HO-DiPT or maybe also some 4-phosphoroloxy-DiPT.  Also curious what would happen with the addition of some AMT.

Also it looks like adding DMT (or DiPT etc) there's still the possibility of the enzymes turning the 4-ho-whatever into 4-phosphoroloxy-whatever, but the phosphoric part has to come from somewhere i guess?  Wonder if you could just make some sodium phosphate or something neutral and add that some form that the enzymes would use, dunno.

Yeah i've been looking through those threads but can't find much where someone actually tried it and posted results, i got info from someone who didn't post about doing experiments with many jars, differing amounts of DMT in each etc.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4499616 - 08/05/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Thats what I'm saying YOU have the machine, everyone else has the mushrooms...unless you can find someone who can get together willing to try this out. Personally my mushrooms are strong enough, I have other species if I want stronger..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedumbsnake34
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4500363 - 08/05/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

adding sodium phosphate would be no good because it would negatively effect the mycelium. I would say you should try potassium phosphate instead or even calcium phosphate. I thought something like gypsum was that, but I don't remember for sure off the top of my head and I don't really feel like looking it up. You can buy KHPO4 and Ca(HPO4)2 I know. Certainly if you are adding phosphates, you would want to add crushed oyster shell or some slow acting pH raiser to counteract it as it is converted in phosphoric acid. If your theory is correct though about mycelium converting more of the alkoloids' hydroxyls to phosphates if there is a higher concentration of phosphate then adding crushed oyster shells wouldn't be as necessary, but stamets says to do that in his books which are for all types of mushrooms. Psylocybes could be different because they make psilocybin. Infact, Psilocybin could be a way that they control pH now that I think about it. That would be an interesting explanation for its existence. Anyway, I am done rambling.


--------------------
mmmm, daydreaming


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4509721 - 08/08/05 07:52 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah the message I got from someone set up non-added dmt control jars, then a bunch of other jars with varying amounts of DMT.

Anyway someone just posted this report on bluelight, said they added some DiPT to the substrate but after it was colonised i think..(trip report)

http://www.bluelight.nu/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215910&r=4

Yeah I suppose I should do a little research and see what I could set up here, inoculate a few jars etc. I'd add some ground root bark to one (well i dont know how many jars i'd end up doing don't have much room to work with), DMT phosphate, etc. I'd be real curious to try adding DiPT, maybe AMT etc also.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: radio879]
    #4509831 - 08/08/05 09:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

AMT would be interesting as well,i dont know if you have access to it.That alpha methylation it has looks quite promising as far as MAO degradation is concerned....


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Psilocybe biosynthesis image / addition of DMT/mimosa [Re: Psiloman]
    #4511157 - 08/08/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

radio, check your pm's


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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