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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms.
    #1890354 - 09/07/03 03:33 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I just thought of this idea about making pure 4-HO-DPT (a rare tryptamine) . From the tests in Germany I read about. That you can make the mushrooms convert the chemical DPT to pure 4-HO-DPT in the fruit bodies if you put a gram of DPT in the substrate.
Same to if you put DMT in the substrate It will increase 4-HO-DMT (like what the Germans did essays about).

So just put in DPT. So you can naturally convert DPT and create abundant 4-HO-DPT in the fruit bodies. A man made chemical that is converted with the 4-HO signature natural.
This will make your fruit bodies have high levels 4-HO-DPT and 4-HO-DMT.

Making the effects have a different twist. Adding a new chemical to the mushrooms.
4-HO-DPT is very hard to make. So doing this will make growing lots of 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms easy.

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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1890462 - 09/07/03 07:07 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

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Offlineorizon
shroomin bliss

Registered: 08/22/03
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1890567 - 09/07/03 09:05 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

ITs worth a shot for the sake of science. Post your results when you get around to it.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: orizon] * 1
    #1891607 - 09/07/03 06:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"There is quite a body of scientific literature that discusses the changes (increases and well as decreases) of psilocybin and psilocin content in mushrooms as a function of their nutrient diet. And, under the 4-HO-DET entry, I mentioned that the inclusion of an unnatural component into the diet just might produce an unnatural alkaloidal product, with an exploitation of the natural and available enzyme systems that are part of the mycelial structure."

"Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays."

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892090 - 09/07/03 08:43 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

This is a new method to convert any tryptamine to the 4-hydroxylate signature.

ex:
DPT = 4-HO-DPT
DiPT = 4-HO-DiPT
DET = 4-HO-DET
AMT = 4-HO-AMT
DMT = 4-HO-DMT

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Invisibleenacid
solid funk
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 183
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892156 - 09/07/03 09:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by enacid

Reason for deletion: abandoning account


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InvisibleZippoZM
Knomadic
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Posts: 13,227
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: enacid]
    #1892214 - 09/07/03 09:28 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

as a note the above quote in the shifting walls is a direct quotation from schulgin's book tihkal
everyone hwere should have that book


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: enacid]
    #1892226 - 09/07/03 09:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Well 4-HO-DPT was never tested that much because it was soooo hard to make. Usually making 25 mg each time made. But with growing mushrooms you can grow tons of 4-HO-DPT contained in the fruit body.

Usually each fruit body will have up to around 100-250 mg range of 4-HO-DPT. 4-HO-DPT has only been tested with 20 mg dose with minimum effects (but with some thing very wonderful nearby).

The fruit bodies will have both 4-HO-DMT and 4-HO-DPT.

But will this still be there when you clone with agar?

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Invisibleenacid
solid funk
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 183
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892264 - 09/07/03 09:43 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4-HO-DMT and 4-HO-DPT and psilocibin avcourse right?

or does it turn into those 2 diff chems?

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: enacid]
    #1892283 - 09/07/03 09:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4-HO-DMT is already in mushrooms. DPT turns into 4-HO-DPT.

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892376 - 09/07/03 10:13 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

As well as 4-phosphoryloxy-DPT.This has the potential of making the higher substituted butyl and others prospective additives also for the formation of their 4-HO and 4-Phosphoryloxy derivitves.SWIM says a 4-HO-DPT mushroom is roughly 2x potent with fewer somatic effects and less mental confusion.This work HAS been done and donating a 66$ gram of DPT to a bulk substrate yeilds many hundred times that weight in a very unique fungal product.
WR:rasta:


--------------------
To old for this place

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1892435 - 09/07/03 10:29 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

so would a mush grown on dpt and l-htp be 6x as potent?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1892458 - 09/07/03 10:41 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I am very curious about these 4-HO-DPT mushrooms.

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Invisibleenacid
solid funk
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892511 - 09/07/03 11:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

what about mushrooms grown with THC
yes what if you added honey oil to your substrate would you get somehting special in your mushies?

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: enacid]
    #1892518 - 09/07/03 11:07 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Nope THC will do nothing. You want a tryptamine of some kind..
Tryptamines will only work with converting to the 4-HO signature.

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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892660 - 09/07/03 11:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1892773 - 09/08/03 12:36 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Im sure it would convert only up to a gram of DPT to 4-HO-DPT. Its not worth growing 4-HO-DET mushrooms. Its the enzymes job to convert tryptamine into their 4-hydroxy counterparts. It just is...

Its the way for the mushrooms too evolve. They will make the direct 4-hydroxy counterparts of the tryptamine.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892842 - 09/08/03 01:18 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Growing with 4-HO-DET is a waste of time. 4-HO-DPT mushrooms are strong. The best part its %100 pure when it converts inside the enzymes. So you have strong pure 4-HO-DMT/4-HO-DPT in your fruit bodies.

I think people should seriously try this. It is worth have 2x the potency. Also your making a hard to make chemical (4-HO-DPT).

It is also done naturally. 4-HO-DPT never made it so big because it was really really hard to make and they only tested very small small doses. A high dose 4-HO-DPT trip is like a DPT trip with the waves of the 4-HO signature if you have 300 mg of pure 4-HO-DPT without 4-HO-DMT (just a guess).

I wonder what you happen if you did this with NMT? End up with 4-HO-NMT?

A combo of a 4-HO-DMT/4-HO-DPT mushrooms sound like a cool trip.
Plus your boosting the 4-HO-DMT when you add the DPT.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1892939 - 09/08/03 02:01 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Anno?

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1894940 - 09/08/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

These 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms will have a totally different vibe out of the trip.

I think lots of people should try it and see for your self :wink:.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1894976 - 09/08/03 03:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Doing this with Azure would be insanely potent.

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Offlineacidhead1279
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895223 - 09/08/03 04:49 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

deleted


--------------------
Farewell FRSE!  We had such good times together.

Edited by acidhead1279 (09/08/03 05:34 PM)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: acidhead1279]
    #1895227 - 09/08/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

E** Chemical..

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895229 - 09/08/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

D

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895231 - 09/08/03 04:53 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

T

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Posts: 4,128
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895246 - 09/08/03 04:57 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

*

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Offlinepaddo
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895247 - 09/08/03 04:57 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: paddo]
    #1895288 - 09/08/03 05:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

For sure :smile:. Thats where I spawned the idea of using DPT.

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Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1895434 - 09/08/03 06:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I guess it may up to some extent, but I would think a good chunk of it might be degraded by extracellular and intracellular enzymes. In the case of a diethyl tryptamine, the sidechain would only have an extra (2) CH2's on the hydrocarbon part which shouldn't really do much. DPT has a much larger sidechain, so this serves as no *real evidence* that it would be transformed in the same manner. My guess would be, however, even if the sidechain did get broken apart it would be converted into psilocin, up to some extent. I guess my thoughts would be, then, that some (4-HO)DPT would be formed along with some extra psilocin, but without assays I can't tell you at all to which extent. It would really depend on how much of it is broken up. There is a chance (not a very small one, at that) that very, very little hydroxylated DPT would form.

Clever idea -- it would have to be tested, however. Thanks,

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1897279 - 09/09/03 05:28 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Would that DPT converted extra psilocin have a change in its effects?
I'm sure it has a limit up to extent. It is proably a gram of DPT that converts to a gram of 4-HO-DPT. A gram is a limit of convertion.

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1897578 - 09/09/03 09:08 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I would imagine it might depending on the amount of isomers produced. Someone claimed that adding 5-HTP to the substrate changed its effects so it would be reasonable that DPT might.... I would think that this is a likely reason why (enzymes can usually work on different isomers of things and likewise can produce different isomers.)

All in all, I don't know if it would just hydroxylate the DPT -- this would have to be tested.... I would imagine it would use it as a precursor for psilocin, though, if it didn't. If it did work, the limit to efficiency (how much you put it vs. how much you get out) would depend on enzymatic destruction of the compound and downregulation.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)

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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1897711 - 09/09/03 10:21 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I would imagine it would also depend a good bit on how much of the original dpt was actually absorbed. Is there any reason to think that a culture will simply ingest all the dpt it's offered? I guess what I'm getting at is practical estimation of yield.

Put x amount of dpt into a pf cake, yield 5 grams of shrooms containing Y amount of 4ho dpt. Well, if you put 2x of dpt into another cake, would the 5 grams of shrooms you yield be twice as potent? Surely there is a point of diminishing returns, but is that point within safety? It seems like you could possibly OD off a single mushroom given the efficiency with which this thread has hinted at for the process.

Anybody want to give an informed estimate for how much dpt to add to specific amounts of substrate? I would imagine that you would estimate it based not on substrate actually, but on yield expected from that substrate. Example, most people get around 5 grams from pf cakes. How much dpt for each pf cake?

Also, would this be reliable across flushes, or would the dpt be converted mostly in the first flush?

These are things that need to be worked out by experienced grower's, and tested by experienced chemists before the kiddy's start offing themselves....


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1897754 - 09/09/03 10:40 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

when are you trying?


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"

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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: comario2]
    #1897990 - 09/09/03 11:46 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Yes PLEASE do this.  I've seen practically NO experimentation into additives.  If you have access to the chems, then by all means, DO IT!  :grin:

If it works, you've created a whole new method of increasing potency of hallucinogenic fungi.  If not, you did a great job experimenting and furthering the knowledge tree.  Its a win win situation :wink:



--------------------
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Offlinepaddo
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: paddo]
    #1898634 - 09/09/03 03:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

In Thikal this is exactly in the same way explaind as you explain it now.
If you are realy interested in experiments like this , just read (p)Thikal, its a good source to start off with.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: paddo]
    #1899300 - 09/09/03 05:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The old little bird said I could dance if I could go to (EDT chemical) ranch. Then I could really be a cow boy.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1899551 - 09/09/03 06:23 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, I ever.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1899617 - 09/09/03 06:33 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Do it in the masses..... People..

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1899689 - 09/09/03 06:48 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I bet it converts lots of DPT to 4-HO-DPT. 4-HO-DPT is weak and you need a lot up to 300 mg to trip. No body has done DPT as an additive before.

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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1899794 - 09/09/03 07:20 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1899849 - 09/09/03 07:32 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Lets say this E enzyme has a limit of a gram.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1903636 - 09/10/03 11:43 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4-HO-DPT will form in the mushrooms fruit bodies just like Baeocystin forms also.

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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1904414 - 09/11/03 06:28 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1904971 - 09/11/03 11:04 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)


I have no idea really... But lots of people need to test with DPT.

Edited by theshiftingwalls (09/11/03 12:07 PM)

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1905071 - 09/11/03 11:35 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1905081 - 09/11/03 11:38 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Hush hush...

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: poke smot!]
    #1905112 - 09/11/03 11:50 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1905142 - 09/11/03 12:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

But 4-HO-DPT effects are like psilocin. 4-HO tones down the effect and brings waves :wink:. 4-HO-DPT is very very different from DPT. (eg DMT to 4-HO-DMT psilocin)

Plus, I do not think any DPT will be left over in the mushrooms. So only 4-HO-DPT will be left.

The experts just need to figure out all the hard things.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1916424 - 09/14/03 07:33 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone test this idea yet? (bump)

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1917687 - 09/15/03 08:55 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The experts just need to figure out all the hard things.



There are no experts, that's the problem. Of the maybe 5 "experts", I bet all of them have many more things that they are personally more interested in than this.

We do have dedicated amateurs, but this is beyond the scope of all but maybe a couple.

1. Creating new drugs, in new ways, and testing them only via bio-assay is a good way to die, thus

2. Quantitative testing of controlled substances is illegal to the general public in the US

3. Person performing experiments would have to be non-US

4. Person perfoming experiments would need money to do have quantitative tests performed to work out yield and dosage.

I mean look how long it's taken for somebody to do a quantitative study of potency from various substrates. Anno has taken that under his wing, but it's still not done, and it's not even as scientifically rigorous as what you suggest.

In fact, Anno is about the only person I could see actually doing any of this. At that, he would need the funds to aquire the dpt, the time and effort to set up a decently scientific experiment (I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem), and the funds to have the resulting fruits tested from each experimental batch, and over several flushes to determine consistency of yield. That's a lot to ask of someone, but perhaps it may happen.....one day.


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OfflineAlbertHoffmann
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: mycofile]
    #1917887 - 09/15/03 10:59 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

What about using Mimosa Hostillis rootbark in your substrate? That stuff is LOADED w/ DMT, and you can buy it at a number of places on the web. Would that make the shroomies stronger? I may have to try it.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: AlbertHoffmann]
    #1919162 - 09/15/03 06:25 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

using tryptamine alone increases potency supposedly, i would just save your n.n dmt for smoking. this is rather interesting thread though shifting even though this is not a new idea. i think i would rather supplement my substrate with tryptamine than dpt. although 4ho dpt sounds interesting i think i would rather have ultra potent 4hodmt shrooms. ill just use my dpt for dosing not supplementation.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1919207 - 09/15/03 06:38 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Very cool :thumbup:.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1919325 - 09/15/03 07:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

hmmmmn. it seems that chemistry is a bit much for us simple farmers.
i say this: go to www.the-hive.ws
in the forum under "tryptamine chemistry" there is loads of information on the biosynthetic pathways of psilocin et al. prodution.
i have blown my mind to bits on 100mg DPT insufflated. why go to a reduced potency by 4-hydroxylating it?

https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.p...part=1&vc=1
(or, forum "enhanced pcilocybin production")

there is loads and loads of stuff there to answer your questions.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1919920 - 09/15/03 09:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I think that the most probable scenario would be brought fourth by using DMT as a substrate. This is the starting point. If something else works that's more complicated, so be it, but if DPT works, DMT will work better.

Like I said before, the limiting factor will be downregulation (on a certain enzyme) and also the enzymatic degredation of the sidechain precluding the possibility of even steric compounds produced on that pathway.

It's not going to be very efficient; I'll tell you that. If you were to try and maximize the psilocin content, however, that's a different story. I really believe growing mushrooms off of Phalaris grass will increase their potency by a noticable factor. When you add another compound, however, with a really big sidechain, you're jumping ahead of the gun. The orgainsm will have downregulation mechanisms which will apply to even the metabolites of the given precursor -- this is where equilibrium is established. Thus, the question of how pragmatic the biotransformation will be comes into play. Since it can't be near 1:1 it will not be that pragmatic, chemically. The other limiting factor, degredation, cannot be tested outside of a lab.

If anyone has any *conclusive* results, I will be happy to help with the quantitative data. These data can be based on subjective results, as long as they are conclusive.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1920055 - 09/15/03 10:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Using pure DMT is a waste. DPT is far much less costly. Im sure it works.

Trying a rare 4-HO-DPT with high content of 4-HO-DMT bio product would be a whole new type of trip.

The DPT (tryptamine) could would make more 4-HO-DMT alone. Also making a new product (4-HO-DPT) not of nature.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1921610 - 09/16/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

yea using dmt would be a waste, if you want more 4hodmt production just use tryptamine which would be far less expensive and time consuming as using dmt would be. my next batch im definately gonna use tryptamine additive, ill do a log when i recieve my spores.


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1923538 - 09/16/03 10:28 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Expensive?!?!

Grow some Phalaris grass, dry it, and use it as a bulk substrate. I was going to try this, but J** screwed me out of my order and I've been too busy to get back to them....

I'm not sure about the oral dosage of 4-HO-DPT, but if it's much more than a hundred mg I'd say you're wasting your time.

If it's really potent you may be onto something, but still, it has to be tested.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1923602 - 09/16/03 10:45 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Micro 4-HO-DPT has only been tested in the 20 mg with threshold results. Meaning that some thing wonderful was around the coner with a higher dosage.

4-HO-DPT starts to go beyond threshold effects at 40 mg.
So 100 mg of 4-HO-DPT would be a nice level 2 trip :smile:.

Phalaris grass sounds like a good idea as a bulk substrate.



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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1923663 - 09/16/03 11:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

If it's active at ~ 20 mg you *might possibly* be onto something! Of course, it needs to be tested, but since psilocin is active at ~ 50 mg (I'm guessing) it's impossible to say what the addition of DPT will do. This is a really interesting article!

The only problem is who knows how it will be broken down? Fungi has a lot of enzymes so these things are only known through testing. No matter what, however, by experimenting, you're learning things. I've been really busy, but if some conclusive data is present, I'll be happy to help with quantitative results (still as an anonymous person, of course.)

Only through the promotion of science will technology evolve. Since people certainly aren't evolving, what else is there?

Thanks for the insight,

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1923709 - 09/16/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Just mix the DPT with the casing layer. So all DPT is not wasted then. So all enzymes covert the DPT to full potential.

A whole new way to make potent psychoactive (4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT) mushroom :smile:.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1923726 - 09/16/03 11:25 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Why the casing layer? Is DPT that water soluble? I wouldn't think so, but I could most certainly be wrong....

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1923764 - 09/16/03 11:33 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Because the mushrooms/myc come up out of the casing layer and DPT is water soluble.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1925231 - 09/17/03 01:27 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1925686 - 09/17/03 03:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4hodipt and 4acodipt are suppose to have the same effects. just like psilocin and psilocybian.


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1925699 - 09/17/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

oh yea, and phalaris has many other chemicals in it besides n,n dmt. i believe 5meodmt, 5hodmt, gramine. i wouldnt want any of those to be transferred into my mushies. 5-htp would be the best option, as its legal, cheap and works really well for increased production of psilocin.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1925774 - 09/17/03 03:55 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

So I guess DiPT would do the same as DPT and convert into 4-HO-DiPT :smile:.
Is 4-HO-DiPT any good?

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1925829 - 09/17/03 04:16 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4-HO-DiPT has a much more sensitive dose then 4-HO-DPT. 4-HO-DiPT is  active at 10 mg :smile:.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. *DELETED* [Re: Infrared]
    #1925838 - 09/17/03 04:20 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: poke smot!]
    #1925889 - 09/17/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I think we just found something magic...

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1926088 - 09/17/03 05:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

ill be trying some 4hodipt this weekend so ill be able to report on some of the effects.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1926108 - 09/17/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Killer :thumbup:.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1926342 - 09/17/03 07:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1926359 - 09/17/03 07:19 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

hmmmm, yea you might be on to something. I wonder if anyone knows why exactly it is so hard to synthesis. But since no effects of it are know it would be almost impossible to distingush its effects because it will be combined with 4-ho-dmt. You need to find someone who can do column chromotagraphy and seperate the chemicals from that specific batch of mushrooms, to even know for sure if they do contain 4-ho-dpt. And even if they did produce it, if its such an unstable chemical it might just degrade within a few hours. Hmmmm theories, theories, theroies so many of them, so little time to test them all out.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1926416 - 09/17/03 07:38 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Nah... Just do it the easy way. Eat em!

Then you can know for sure :smirk:. Do not wait for the experts to test it out... Or we will be waiting years...

People always wanna make every thing so complex these days and shit. When an amateur could pull it off just as easy right now. I say every one look into this now...

Like we can all talk about it and shit. But when you do this, it actually becomes a reality (steps to success thinking, planing and doing).

5 easy steps to find out if it works. 1.Get DPT 2.Cover casing layer in DPT. 3.Harvest mushrooms. 4.Eat em! 5.Trip out...

Sorry about my stoner rambling...

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Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1926458 - 09/17/03 07:53 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I am by no means a chemist, i merely have a high school education in chemistry (and a fairly low quality one at that).  That said, this is all theory.  i just saw some connections and decide to post them.  I know that my reasoning and conclusion could be and, most likely are, incorrect.  So for all those shaking your heads, prove me wrong and come up with some hard evidence :wink:.

1. according to TIHKAL it seems that the german studies were done with det and not dpt.  or have they done multiple studies?  det makes more sense than dpt, as 4-ace-det is active on a much lower dose than i would imagine 4-ho-dpt has. the former on doses similar to psilocin and psilocybin and the latter going on a supposed threshold dose of 20mg.

2.  given a proper amount of nutrients, i would think the mushrooms would only make as much of enzyme E as would be necessary to process the dmt enzyme D creates.  who knows if it would make more of the enzyme for the dpt or not.  if not, perhaps it could be possible to find some dmt in dpt-laced mushrooms.

3. the average psiloc(yb)in (combined) content of P. Cubensis is 1.23% by dry weight.  for me, and i think most others, .5g for threshold (let me know if lower) and 3.5 grams gives a good trip.  therefore average psiloc(yb)in dose for threshold is ~3mg and a good trip is ~43.5mg.  Now, if there is only a certain amount of enzyme E created to convert what enzyme D made, that means that the end result wont exceed the total content of psilocin and psilocybin.  therefore that 43.5mg would be divided into three parts, not necessarily equal, for 4-ho-dmt, 4-opo4-dmt and the 4-ho-xxx*.

4. This is somewhat of a follow up to 3.  If mere threshold effects were felt with 20mg of 4-ho-dpt, that would mean (on the same average ratio of 4-ho-(dmt,dipt)** and 4-ace-(det,dipt)**) the mushrooms would need to produce ~10 times as much 4-ho-dpt per dose (ie 435 mg) for a high level 4-ho-dpt trip.  Now i realize this number is not scientifically accurate, but if you compare  dmt***, det, and dipt, their doses are all quite similar again.  therefore it would seem that, unless there was more 4-ho-dpt created than 4-ho-dmt and the phosphate ester combined, the shrooming experience would only be slightly effected by the 4-ho-dpt.  going by what i concluded earlier, the dpt probably wouldnt even be much of a factor seeing as how there is probably only around 15mg max (if there are indeed limited enzymes).  more research is obviously needed.

4. i believe mycofile said it best: "1. Creating new drugs, in new ways, and testing them only via bio-assay is a good way to die, thus"

*assuming the fungus would convert tryptamine xxx to the 4-ho analog of said tryptamine
**each dose range is very similar according to erowid (although erowid says 20mg is 'heavy' psiloc(yb)in, i believe most would disagree).
***with dmt orally an maoi must be used to obtain effects

edit: fixed a few minor things, also adding somethings i thought of:

a. if the fungus makes 4-ho-dmt and 4-opo4-dmt from dmt, then would it make 4-ho-xxx and 4-opo4-xxx?
b. are 4-ho-dmt and 4-opo4-dmt created by different enzymes in the mushroom?

Edited by iamhimheisme (09/17/03 09:34 PM)

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1926480 - 09/17/03 08:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty good for DEA :wink:.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930209 - 09/18/03 06:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Look at this :eek: , 4-acetoxy-DiPT ressembles psilocybin and 4-HO-DiPT ressembles psilocin :smile:.

 




   

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Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930213 - 09/18/03 06:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

the only part thats the same is the 4-ho :wink:

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1930264 - 09/18/03 07:15 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

No, I mean its like the same kind of difference.

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Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930325 - 09/18/03 07:42 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)



psilocin and iprocin (4-ho-dipt) have the same general chemical structure as they're both 4-hydroxy analogs of tryptamines.  look at the pictures of each, the hydroxy, phosphorloxy and acetoxy (all 3 in the pic above) sections dont change from chem to chem aside from some facing different directions in some, but its still the same basic structure.  that big part on the left (the two hexagons mainly, but theres an arm that comes off too) of dpt and dmt is the basic tryptamine structure (couldnt find a pic :mad:), that too maintains the same basic structure from chem to chem.  if you look at baeocystin, its got a similar structure to psilocybin.  theyre both tryptamine based and have the same phosphorloxy structure.  Aside from the basic 4-XXX-XXT structure, i dont see your point with psilocybin and 4-ace-dipt.  that said, whats your point?  :confused: 

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1930377 - 09/18/03 08:06 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

4-HO-DiPT acts like psilocin (speeded fast thoughts trip). 4-ace-DiPT acts like psilocybin (mellow thinking trip).

See my point?

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930537 - 09/18/03 08:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

i dont know about that, im pretty sure the acetoxy and phosphorloxy groups get broken down to hydroxy when they enter the stomach and go through all the enzymes. At least thats my understanding of psilocin and psilocybian. So i assume the same would happen with 4hodipt and 4acedipt.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1930549 - 09/18/03 08:59 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

There is no proof of that...

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930583 - 09/18/03 09:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

straight from thikal
"There are two generalizations implicit here, one of which I am quite at peace with, but the other is both complex and disturbing. The OK item is the casual equation between the hydroxy compound psilocin, the acetate ester, and the phosphate ester, psilocybin. As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties"

so while there is no technical proof, both of the different compounds have nearly identical effects, and its is widely believed that they break down to the same compound in the human body. enough proof?


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1930607 - 09/18/03 09:22 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

_shifting_ you should not make posts like this unless you truly know what your talking about, and all the info you have provided is pulled directly from things you read, which explains why your dodging any questions people ask, when the anwser isn't in the info you've read. Sorry but I wouldn't believe a word you said here, I do think this is intersting, but it's not your idea like you claim. I see your posts and the PM you sent me, and it dosn't seem like you know very much about chemistry or cultivation for that matter, this is just a warning to all those who read this.


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: John]
    #1930783 - 09/18/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

In theory...The upper limits of uptake are established by liquid culture.Alkyltryptamine x is incorporated into liquid media ph stabilized until the upper limit on concentration is reached w/o harming mycelial growth.a culture is grown to complete maturity in vitro and the mycelial mass filtered and weighed the liquid faction is then subjected to a rigorous A/B extraction and the remaining alkaloid weighed.There is now a baseline rough coefficient of uptake.Applied to a P/F style procedure fruits with the maximum opo4,and oh derivitives are produced.Chromatography yeilds relatively pure opo4 and oh derivitives of most alkyl tryptamines,and like psilocin and psilocybin the opo4 derivitives are consistantly more stable.A phosphorus ehanced substrate maximizes the production of the more stable substances.To whoever was considering adding the acetoxy alkyl tryptamine save the step of the fungi cleaving the acetoxy group to add an oh or opo4,there is the possibility of unknown side reactions with the free acetoxy group free in vivo.
More work needs done to give more exact assay of resulting tryptamines,but using the fungal ezymatic systems via targeted substrate enhancement, is without doubt an easily accessed method of creating novel substances.Chromatography and discreet bioassay should reveal a number of unique and interesting substances using biosynthetic methods.Liqid culture of fungal biomass could lead to a new industry of recreational quasi-natural substances
Good Luck to the new gen who may investigate this!
WR:rasta:


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1930982 - 09/18/03 11:18 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

nicely put whiterasta.


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Infrared]
    #1931243 - 09/19/03 12:31 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

agreed, ^5 for that wr

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1931270 - 09/19/03 12:45 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Very nice whiterasta.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1931454 - 09/19/03 02:13 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:whiterasta :thumbup: :smile:

Your liquid culture idea gives me an idea.  I've seen it said numerous times that the standard liquid culture that is used by the OMC, namely dextrose/glucose/karo/honey, does not supply the nutrition required to produce the tryptamines.  For example, if some newbie mentions adam gottlieb's old "5000 doses..." tek, people explain that it wouldn't work.

I belive we can use this to our advantage.  One cool thing I see about liquid culture is the ability to completely control the nutrients used.  So we provide the culture with all the nutrients required for healthy mycelium; dextrose, carbs, proteins, some minerals, phosphorous, oxygen, maybe some lignin, but we specifically deprive the mycelium of anything that it could use to make tryptamines, except for the dpt or whatever we are experimenting with.  Perhaps a solid culture formula could be developed as well, as long as it is properly lacking, will colonize, and isn't too contaminate prone.

I supposed we'd have to be careful when deciding what proteins are provided as some may allow for the creation of the psilo's.  This causes me to think of a couple of questions though.  Does the organism actually have a natural inclination to make psiloc(yb)in, or does it just go tryptophan->tryptamine->dimethyltryptamine->psilo because methyl groups are the simplest?  (and is this the correct and only pathway?)  Perhaps the simplicity of methyl groups is the only natural inclination.  They just work with what they're given.  Since the shrooms don't come across exotic tryptamines in nature, the 4-HO analogs of exotics aren't found in the fruitbodies.  But if we give them only DPT, skipping some of the enzymatic steps, we should get only dpt or its analogs in the fruits. 

Then you have the choice of taking dpt analogs, or dmt analogs or combining them in the desired doses.  Grow some regular and some not and take however much of each you want.  You could even take two non-dmt analogs depending on what you put in.

Another question, where is the DMT in shrooms and why doesn't it cause effects from smoked shrooms?  Is it a salt?  Has anyone ever tried doing an a/b and smoking the extract?  This could be interesting...would it be possible to inhibit the enzymes that go beyond DMT, without inhibiting the ones leading to it?

Sorry for all the rambling and getting slightly off topic, all this biochemistry is quite interesting.  I hope there's some good chunks somewhere in there.  Since we're in this realm and in case anyone knows, here's an off topic yet related question: Does anyone know about the possible presence of tryptophan decarboxylase (as I assume it is called) in the organisms that survive pasteurization?  Thanks for any info, and thanks to everyone contributing to this thread, its become quite interesting.

oh..one more thing... "The track record is pretty well established with the oxygen-free analogue DPT, and it would be hard to imagine a loss of potency by incorporating the "psilocin signature", the 4-hydroxy group."  - Shulgin 


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: psyphon]
    #1932081 - 09/19/03 10:37 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psyphon said:
oh..one more thing... "The track record is pretty well established with the oxygen-free analogue DPT, and it would be hard to imagine a loss of potency by incorporating the "psilocin signature", the 4-hydroxy group." - Shulgin




well, even if there was no potency loss between dpt and 4-ho-dpt, it would still require ~75mg for a threshold dose and somwhere around 250 for a high level trip*. so youd still need more 4-ho-dpt to be produced than the amounts of psilocin and psilocybin combined in naturally growing mushrooms.

*according to shulgin, use of a 1.3mg/kg versus 1mg/kg IV simply prolonged the trip. unfortunately there was nothing on dose/response plateus with oral doses.

all information was found in tihkal

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1933496 - 09/19/03 07:01 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Then you would need to buy more DPT.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1933503 - 09/19/03 07:05 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

It might covert or not. DPT or 4-HO-DPT. This is the big question.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1936017 - 09/20/03 05:00 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

most strains of phalaris grass have been breeded to reduce the content of DMT, first under the assumption that it was the DMT which caused the 'staggers' symptome in grasing sheep when they ate it. once that theory had been discredited they continue to breed low-DMT phalaris grass for the purposes of making DMT harder to obtain. you would want to extract and quantify the concentration of DMT in your phalaris(which grows globally) before you put the grass in your substrate. however, phalaris has a very low conc. of DMT in aqny case (.10-.57% or so by dry weight)

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: psyphon]
    #1947049 - 09/24/03 05:24 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

bump?


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1947419 - 09/24/03 09:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

This is indeed an interesting post. However, I would like to add that the activity of 4-HO-DPT is not known, regardless of what theshiftingwalls says. And if 20 milligrams is maybe a threshold then I doubt this would be an appropriate method for testing out this new compound. (If something is reported as maybe a threshold dose this does not mean that magic is neccessarily around the corner.) If you have DPT, use it as DPT.

DiPT may be a more suitable project and it is just as available. The activity of 4-HO-DiPT is known and the dosage is close to 4-HO-DMT. I cannot say that it would be converted the same way as DET, but it certainly might. I would imagine that you would still be dealing with a primarily 4-HO-DMT trip coupled with some 4-HO-DiPT activity, but probably not that much. You might also get some residual unconverted DiPT activity, so you would be dealing with a psychedelic hodgepodge.

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1948258 - 09/24/03 02:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Psychedelic hodgepodge can be crazy :wink:.

Residual unconverted pure DiPT would not form in the fruit bodies. Maybe only in the myc, I guess.

So the mushrooms would contain 4-HO-DMT/4-HO-DiPT.

I think we all need to find out the activity of 4-HO-DPT before experimenting happens with DPT.


Also, DiPT would be great for this fruiting experiment.





Has anyone ever made 4-AcO-DMT? I guess the body would convert it to 4-HO-DMT when ingested :smile:.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1948369 - 09/24/03 03:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

theshiftingwalls said:
Residual unconverted pure DiPT would not form in the fruit bodies. Maybe only in the myc, I guess.




Why not? If the DiPT would have to get into the fruit bodies to be converted, wouldn't it make sense that some of it might make it into the fruitbody and not be converted. (Vermiculite can make it into the fruitbody.)

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1948387 - 09/24/03 03:18 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

i have read that DiPT is converted quantitatively to its 4-OH analogue im myc, however, as i have no refrence for this, you might aswell take it as it is: a rumor.

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InvisibleSolarFlare
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1948862 - 09/24/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

and then the sldr.-3-2.x3.s analogue into the sls5.2cl3/3c-3#2.x wich converts to the C.3z03.x/4dlkj4-3-3-3


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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: SolarFlare]
    #1949230 - 09/24/03 07:03 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

what the fuck are you talking about?

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1950392 - 09/25/03 04:12 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

look at the pictures of each, the hydroxy, phosphorloxy and acetoxy (all 3 in the pic above) sections dont change from chem to chem




Lol!  What phosphorloxy groups are in the pictures?  Those compounds don't even have phosphorus in them....

I think the person was discussing DPT, anyway.  It doesn't matter how different you think they look; even if they have the same binding site the drugs may have very different effects once they reach your brain; the sidechain can really effect the way the compound is broken down, for example (let alone binding efficiency,) which can have a really large impact on its mental effect.  The person who started this thread wanted to know if you could hydroxylate the DPT in vivo to make the more potent form of the drug.  I can't answer that question, and I don't think anyone else can, for sure, until some tests are done.

BTW -- tryptamine is the same as psilocin up to the N on the sidechain, except for the phenol group; tryptamine doesn't have a carbonyl on the bezene ring.

I'm sure I've read that psiocybin dephosphorylizes in vivo, but it might be in the liver; I don't know.  We'd be more concerned with the enzymes that the fungus produces, however.  BTW -- what is the blood-brain barrier, exactly?  Noone has ever been able to tell me :wink:

WR -- I don't know what you mean by liquid culture -- the mushroom's enzymes (for psiloc-) don't really kick in until it fruits.  If you mean establishing maximum potential for yield through a minimal media it might just break the stuff down further.  I can see where you're going but I don't think psilocin is really used as source of nutrition -- it's produced on the Shikimic acid pathway which almost always produces byproducts not essential for vitile (and ideally sterile) life functions (except in some parasites where it is.)

Basically mushrooms convert chorismate -> tryptophan -> tryptamine, and most of the downregulation is at the step where tryptophan gets decarboxylized into tryptamine.  This is why adding a trypt*amine* should increase potency by a good factor; if it has tryptamine already there is no need for decarboxylation since tryptamine is the finished product of that reaction.  If it does get downregulated it should be at a step before the tryptamine.  As far as how (and to what extent) it metabolizes other tryptamines, however, I don't know.  I would imagine a good chunk of the DPT should get broken down somewhere.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1950540 - 09/25/03 07:24 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WR -- I don't know what you mean by liquid culture -- the mushroom's enzymes (for psiloc-) don't really kick in until it fruits. If you mean establishing maximum potential for yield through a minimal media it might just break the stuff down further. I can see where you're going but I don't think psilocin is really used as source of nutrition -- it's produced on the Shikimic acid pathway which almost always produces byproducts not essential for vitile (and ideally sterile) life functions (except in some parasites where it is.)





I see your point but the jist of the experiment is to determine the highest concentration of the dialkylamine w/o harming mycelial growth.This concentration is then used as a P/F style additive and will produce fruits which are around 2x more potent,whether the 4-HO or 4-OPO derivitive is responsible is a conjecture in the abscence of proper analysis.
As for the alkyl ligands anything below the butyl group apears active with only the higher substituions being oraly active via the blood brain barrier and lesser substitutions being parenteraly injected or vaporized and inhaled.
The sole purpose of the liquid culture is to determine if and how much of a dialkyltryptamine Can be tolerated by the Myc.
Much of this is based on feild observations of Ps.semmilanceata which when growing in aquatic phalaris are several X more potent than those found in timothy hay.Phalaris is a producer of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT along with several other alkaloids, some process in the fungi is utilizing the tryptamines for extra potency.It is reasonable to assume they will react to similar tryptamines accordingly
WR


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1950932 - 09/25/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I agree, in those respects.

The fungi has enzymes to convert tryptamine -> psilocybin. The way it controls this is downregulation, or the "switching off" of an enzyme in the metabolic pathway when there is too much product. This is why tryptamine works so well -- usually, first, it'll simply stop making tryptamine, but it's in the substrate so that doesn't really matter. As for DMT, if I remember correctly there is only an addition of a 5-HO on the C ring to make psilocin; it's even more similar than tryptamine, itself, so this is almost a sure hit.

The toxicity is a good point -- never even thought of it. I don't know if it would be toxic in reasonable amounts, but it's something to think about....

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1951264 - 09/25/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
Quote:

look at the pictures of each, the hydroxy, phosphorloxy and acetoxy (all 3 in the pic above) sections dont change from chem to chem




Lol!  What phosphorloxy groups are in the pictures?  Those compounds don't even have phosphorus in them....





all i was trying to do with the pic was explain to shifting that the structures arent all that similar after he said whats below.  as for the other two compounds, i know they dont contain any phosphorous, i was talking about the other three structures in the picture.  although i didnt use the word "sidechain" im sure you could have figured out what i was getting at if you thought about it for a second instead of finding a good way to give me shit.  i dont really have any chemistry background so give me a break, you could at least correct me without being a dick about it.
Quote:

theshiftingwalls said:
Look at this :eek: , 4-acetoxy-DiPT ressembles psilocybin and 4-HO-DiPT ressembles psilocin :smile:.



 

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1951844 - 09/25/03 05:07 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

psilocin/psilocybin is produced by mycelium in liquid culture.

the phosphoryl group is hydrolysed quatitatively, which makes *cin and *cybin equally active by molar quantity.


what is chorismate? i have never heard of this before. all the research i have read on mushroom enzyme sequences is that psilocin starts with trytophan. do you have a refrence for this?

a background in chemistry is usually kind of requisite for discussing chemistry, IMHO.

the blood-brain barrier is a really comprehensive screening aparatus that makes sure no baddies get into the blood that the brain uses.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1952678 - 09/25/03 09:53 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

This is cool. When i eat drugs i trip. When mushrooms eat drugs they spit out new ones.


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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: tak]
    #1953720 - 09/26/03 07:45 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

No offence,but: Why doesnt someone just try it and test it. If he's fucked more than usual we know the answer!
Unless of course you wanna keep on the hypothetical discourse...
:wink:


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Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954095 - 09/26/03 11:12 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

doktor_alternate said:
a background in chemistry is usually kind of requisite for discussing chemistry, IMHO.





FINE well if you just want me to stop posting here i will!! maybe i'll go cut myself too!! YOU JUST MADE ME SNAP!!!!!!*


*note:  the phrase that describes the previous is "to pull a shiftingwalls"

anyways, you're probably right, i just find this stuff interesting so i like to participate, i'll just keep to myself and observe until i know more of what im talking about :grin: 

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954166 - 09/26/03 11:42 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

what is chorismate? i have never heard of this before. all the research i have read on mushroom enzyme sequences is that psilocin starts with trytophan. do you have a refrence for this?




Tryptophan is synthesized in vivo from chorismate -- I could find you journal articles if you want, but you should be able to do a web search and find it, like:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?x=wrt&...p;n=20&fl=0

Hope that helped!

--
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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1954778 - 09/26/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

oh, neat. thanks! i guess tryptamine, or other amines are still the best precursors to spike one's substrate with what with the downregulation of tryptophan decarboxylase.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954957 - 09/26/03 03:59 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

What about LSA?

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1956298 - 09/27/03 01:09 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

whatabout LSA? the 4 position is already bound, and the bulk of the molecule is like right in the way!

but maybe there is a diethylamidease enzyme somewhere that would be neat for that.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1956316 - 09/27/03 01:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Oh so many wonders :wink:.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1956797 - 09/27/03 08:58 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

General enzyme knowledge: For an enzyme to work it needs the substrate (DPT,or LSA that was mentioned) to be able to enter the enzymes ctive site.The mushrooms 4-oh enzyme hasnt got that great specificity (some enzymes can only operate on a single substrate) but LSA looks too big forthe enzyme to handle

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Psiloman]
    #1958002 - 09/27/03 07:01 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

But it will break down the tryptamine base...

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1961693 - 09/29/03 01:07 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

mushroom enzymes will 4-hydroxylate tryptamine bases. LSA is a tryptamine analogue (of sorts, it does contain an indole ring, but its pretty well a big multicyclic monster of its own), but the spot that you would hydroxylate on the indole ring of a tryptamine using the mushroom enzymes is already bound really well. there is no way you could hydroxylate LSA in mushrooms, especially because the way the tryptamines fit into the 4-hydroxylase active site, LSA has this huge freakin conjugated double bond muticyclic aparatus right in the way. translation: LSA wont be processed by mushroom enzymes.

P. cubensis's tryptamine 4-hydroxylase is a pretty non-specific enzyme, in that many different n-alkyl analogues of DMT can be hydroxylated. some enzymes are so specific that only one chiral configuration of one molecule will be processed.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1975162 - 10/03/03 05:18 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

my Swiss friend has 1g DPT HCL and a nice GT isolate.
he has a tight setup and a control group.

should he mix the DPT w/ ALL of the compost? how much per Kg?
or should he just add it to a 1" layer on top? or the casing?

he wants to add it to distilled water (100mg / L) and spray the fruits,
but i don't think that would be the best way to go about it...

thanx for advice.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Middleman]
    #1977256 - 10/03/03 06:38 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

put 250mg into the casing for a *small* terrarium (maybe even in a largish mason jar).
have another *small* terrarium, identically shaped, identically processed, identical in every way except for the DPT.

then: take 50mg of DPT and rail it.
then: wait for your mush to grow, extract appropriately, do a
thin layer chromatograph analysis, and look for one extra band on the DPT line.
for instructions on how to do extractions and TLC, pm me.

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Invisiblechris_kelvin
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1979310 - 10/04/03 03:31 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

This thread is full of wild speculation and guesses. There is no need, after all a whole lot of information can be accessed on the internet by anoyne, and even more information can be found in university libraries. Why speculate on things that have been looked into? Here is the abstract of the reference behind what Shulgin wrote in TIHKAL:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Abstract:

J. Basic Microbiol. 1989;29(6):347-52.
Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe.
Gartz J.
Institut fur Biotechnologie der AdW, Leipzig.

Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis capable of forming psilocybin and psilocin de novo display a high capacity for hydroxylation of tryptamine derivatives at the 4-position. A specific biotransformation of added synthetic N,N-diethyl-tryptamine was found. Thus high amounts of 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (up to 3.3%) and a minor quantity of 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (0.01-0.8%) were isolated from fruiting bodies of Psilocybe cubensis in corresponding experiments. This is the first example of a directed biosynthesis of tryptamine substances by fungi. An effective biotransformation of N-methyltryptamine was also demonstrated with surface cultures of Psilocybe semilanceata. Baeocystin, a possible natural precursor of psilocybin, was detected and quantified in the biomasses. No alkaloids could be found in the culture medium.


Now, what does it mean if there is no alkaloids found in the culture medium, if alkaloids were added there in the first place considering that high amounts of 4-OH-DET were produced? :wink: According to the paper the culture Gartz used was a cow dung/rice grain (2:1) mixture with dry weight of 13.5 g suspended into double amount of 0.25 mM solution of N,N-diethylamine hydrochloride, which means that there was about 1.7 grams of DET.HCl dissolved in 27 mL of water. The percentages of alkaloids per dry weight isolated from five consecutive flushes were: 1. 2.5 % 4-OH-DET, 0 % 4-phosphoryloxy-DET; 2. 0.2 %, 0.8 %; 3. 3.1 %, 0.01 %; 4. 3.3 %, 0 %; 5. 2.1 %, 0.02 %. Also, another abstract on the subject:

Planta Medica, vol. 55, p. 249-250 (1989)
Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis
Jochen Gartz

Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis, with the ability to form psilocybin and psilocin de-novo, also hydroxylated and methylated fed tryptamine to give psilocin in up to 3.3 % dry mass of the obtained fruit bodies. By using HPLC and TLC, it was found that these mushrooms contain only a small amount of psilocybin (0.01-0.2 % dry mass). The values of psilocin are the highest described in any mushrooms.


The following patents (http://www.espacenet.com) by mr. Gartz are also interesting and related on the subject, even though they are in german. Other patents by Herr Gartz might be worth checking out too.
DD265636, DD273449, DD287053

Also, the following reference is interesting indeed, although it is apparent the information it contains cannot be applied directly to mycelial cultures. If it was, the poor uptake and incorporation of DMT might be considered contradictory to the results Gartz obtained, as DMT and DET are chemically quite close to each other: Biosynthesis of Psilocybin Part II. Incorporation of Labeled Tryptamine Derivatives; Agurell, S. and Eilsson, L.; Acta Chemica Scandinavica, vol. 22, p. 1210 (1968):
https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/psilocybin.biosynthesis-2.pdf


Now mister theshiftingwalls, after giving supporting arguments on certain conjectures you made, there are a few things I must say: claiming that all of the DPT added to the substrate would be converted to 4-OH-DPT is, even still, a claim without proof as there are no measurements to back it up. You also seem to be sure of a lot of things you have no proof of. Yet, it is obvious you aren't an expert nor have you studied the subject thoroughly. Did you know that 4-OH-DPT is quite as hard to synthesize in the lab as psilocin? Every magic mushroom grower is making psychedelics that are hard to synthesize.

And please could you stop using that silly PARANOIA-picture on the signature of your posts? It made reading this whole thread very annoying, and I'm sure you want people to read this thread.

I also want to add a little disclaimer: mycology isn't my main interest and I am no expert in it either. I just happen to like information and science.:) 

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: chris_kelvin]
    #1979670 - 10/04/03 06:55 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

look mr.disclaimer: dont get your panties in a knot about the relatively unstudied population here. if you wanna go talk drug chemistry, there are lots on the-hive.ws on your level. let these guys have fun with their pictures and that because the main issue here is:
this is a website for mushroom farmers, not chemistry geniuses. the contents of this post HAVE been discussed at large many a time in the past (www.the-hive.ws -> triptamine chemistry) and if you think you have something to contribute, by all means, go flash your well-worn refrences around there.
this thread is not supposed to be a detailed discussion, it is simply a group of ameture science kids playing 'lets make trippy mushrooms!'

however: DPT HCl has never been analysed for its 4-hydroxylating capacity to my knowledge (now if youve got a refrence for THAT, then cool, but spouting that same old DET ref is not productive).

now, mr.soundmind: when you go about conducting your experiment, be sure to write EVERYTHING down. (ex: on 10/4/03, batch 1(jars 1-6) was innoculated with 1.5mL spore solution A in the oven top flow hood.
some wetness was noted around the hole of jar 4 after removal of the syringe. possible contamination source? will keep note.) ya know? then post your running experiment here so that we can give feedback while it goes down.
cool?

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Invisiblechris_kelvin
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1980188 - 10/04/03 11:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, it is just a pity to see misinformation grow. I'm well aware of the Hive and I'm afraid it is a better place to discuss syntheses than applied mycology. Sorry for the arrogant post, cultural differences got the best of me.

As a later addition to this message, I would also like to share the requested reference on the biotransformation of DPT to 4-OH-DPT. It was an east-german patent by Jochen Gartz I happened to miss at first. Here is the english abstract.

Manufacture of tryptophan derivatives with higher fungi
Gartz, Jochen
Akademie der Wissenschaften der DDR
Patent DD278600 (1990)

By culturing Psilocybe, Panaeolus, Inocybe, Conocybe, and Pluteus on solid media containing 0.1-2% 3-(2-dialkylaminoethyl)-indole, 3-(2-dialkylaminoethyl)-4-hydroxyindoles can be prepared in high yield with little synthesis of other indole compounds. P. cubensis was cultured on a cow manure-straw-water mixture containing 3-(2-dipropylaminoethyl)-indole.HCl. From 18 g mycelium, 420 mg 3-(2-dipropylaminoethyl)-4-hydroxyindole was isolated. No other indoles were detectable in the mycelium.


3-(2-dipropylaminoethyl)indole.HCl is DPT.HCl and 3-(2-dipropylaminoethyl)-4-hydroxyindole is 4-OH-DPT. On the patent they add 0.5 grams of DPT.HCl on the substrate and isolate 420 milligrams of 4-OH-DPT (I assume it is the freebase) with column chromatography from 18 grams of dry mushrooms (not mycelium, it looks like whoever wrote the abstract made a mistake).

Edited by chris_kelvin (10/05/03 12:34 AM)

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: chris_kelvin]
    #1981750 - 10/05/03 04:06 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

the ref. you provided is in german with "no english abstract available". it seems you can translate german: thats super-cool. and with the math correction for freebase percentage yields that works out to a 78.8% molar conversion, which is pretty fucking good considering the loss of yield one would expect through an extraction from a plant mass! nice ref! mad propz.

so, mr.soundmind, i would advise that you just go ahead and put all 1000mg of that DPT.HCl into your casing. by doing so, you can expect at least 79% of that DPT to be in your mush as the 4-OH analogue. also, you would have ONLY that in your mushrooms, making for some pretty exotic psychadellic shroomies.

too cool!

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Invisiblechris_kelvin
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1981866 - 10/05/03 05:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The english abstract is taken from Chemical Abstracts, espacenet is full of stuff that cannot be found with its search engine because a lot of foreign language patents are stored there without a proper abstract or a title. I can translate german with the aid of a dictionary, but it takes time and effort. Checking out details is much easier.:)

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: chris_kelvin]
    #1982305 - 10/05/03 08:33 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

sweet!
well, im just gonna hafta get myself a library of those little things: french, german, israeli, chinese whatever!

kind of made sense what with downregulation at tryptohan decarboxylase and the demonstrated malleability of n,n-dialkyltryptamine 4-hydoxylase. i think ill do a project using this, but with a gram of n,n-diisopropyltryptamine hydrochloride, available online for $54.00 USD

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1982311 - 10/05/03 08:34 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

ann shulgin really loved that stuff. i think i might too.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1982312 - 10/05/03 08:35 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah, the ref for that enzyme stuff.

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/gregory/1042/index.html

"Attempted Molecular Cloning of Enzymes from the Psilocybin Biosynthesis Pathway in Psilocybe tampanensis"


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Invisiblechris_kelvin
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1984726 - 10/06/03 06:35 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Nice link, thank you!

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Offlineevlovevlove
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: chris_kelvin]
    #1987388 - 10/07/03 04:08 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Does anyone have a reference for the activity of 4-OH-DPT in humans?

I have not seen it.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1988650 - 10/07/03 10:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

TIKHAL #20:

dosage: unknown
Duration: unknown
Qualitative comments: (20mg, orally) "possible threshold, nothing more".

for other ref's youll probably have to do some digging.

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Offlineevlovevlove
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1990476 - 10/08/03 03:18 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I have seen that one, but it doesn't say much does it?

I would be careful being the first one to test this new product at higher (and most likely unmeasured) doses.

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: evlovevlove]
    #1990846 - 10/08/03 05:35 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

so start at 20mg, and work up, doubling the dose until you feel a threshlold, then go up real slow afterthat.

why no measure? build yourself a mg scale.
https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/equipment/scale.html

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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1991964 - 10/09/03 12:38 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Wow. That is a great link!

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: zeronio]
    #1992183 - 10/09/03 02:04 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, that is the Best Archive Ever.

notice there is no mention of 4-HO-DPT or even DPT.
this is virgin territory, only entered by a few human minds,
since the time of the Nephilim and 5 foot tall phosphorescent mushrooms...

anyway, dok said:

Quote:

now, mr.soundmind: when you go about conducting your experiment, be sure to write EVERYTHING down... then post your running experiment here so that we can give feedback while it goes down.




that will not be possible as i am not the experimenter,
my friend living near Lago Maggiore in Switzerland is.

he does not have internet access, but he does have a 5 Mpx digi cam,
and he will be taking copious notes, so i will post results when i get them.

anyway a quick Q:

would it be better for him to use freebase in the casing than HCL?

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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Middleman]
    #1992232 - 10/09/03 02:29 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

well of course he would still pH balance your casing. that is one of the experimental variables. he would have to make them identical, like all the other parameters.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1992252 - 10/09/03 02:55 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

you mean he would balance his casing...

how should he go about that w/ out effecting the DPT?
and what do you think about using freebase?

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Middleman]
    #1992724 - 10/09/03 08:43 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

You want to use -HCl because it's water soluble.

--
Micro


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OfflineTheHook
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #4624933 - 09/06/05 09:15 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

what strains of mushrooms were these tested on?

if i were to add DMT into pan cyans could i expect similar results or is there a maximum alkaloid level (cyans are 4mg higher in psilocin than cubes)?


--------------------
I often come to many challenges and intimidations, but then I remember that you only live life once, one single time through, with no reruns or rehearsals. So just live the way you want and the best you can. Its easy.

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Offlinepuwtrip
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Middleman]
    #4628567 - 09/07/05 01:03 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


that will not be possible as i am not the experimenter,
my friend living near Lago Maggiore in Switzerland is.




sorry off topic but thats a cool place; visited for a few days at stresa and cannobio then just hopped over to ancona and back again. this was about 1 month ago. interesting to know people grow mushies out there.  :laugh:

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Offlineradio879
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: puwtrip]
    #4689067 - 09/21/05 01:46 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Here's the full PDF file of that one (that can't be saved/make it a pain in the ass)

http://www.zodm.com/images/cls83008.pdf

Now, does anyone know the best german --> english translator for free to tranzlate that shizznit?

--
Now if one were to just get some cheap mimosa root bark, grind it all up and throw some in some jars, or however best its done, experiment, ya'll might have some super potent mushrooms.

I've thought of instead using phosphoric acid to bring the ph below 7 making all the extra DMT into phosphate salts - maybe more psilocybin will result?

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OfflineJonX
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: radio879]
    #4693129 - 09/21/05 11:06 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

man this thread is 2+ YEARS OLD


--------------------
Born: 10/29/85, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: JonX]
    #4702945 - 09/23/05 11:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

how would adding something like ground morning glory seeds to the substrate work? would we end up with 4-HO-LSA? its a tryptamine so it would see to convert. that would make for some interesting shrooomies

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ripper225]
    #4709119 - 09/25/05 09:47 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:laugh:

See the molecule of LSA first.

Does it have a 4th position free?

Do you think that the whole polycyclic bulk would fit in the enzyme? Its characterized as an Ergoline.

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Offlineripper225
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Psiloman]
    #4710859 - 09/25/05 05:06 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

i'm not sure which position is the 4th position, but looking at the molecules it appears that the LSA is open at the same positions as DMT or DPT

as for whether or not it's too large... the DPT molecule has more substance to it, not sure how the shape would effect it though

i've got the molecules for DMT, LSA & DPT side by side in the attached zip'd jpg.

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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ripper225]
    #4711725 - 09/25/05 09:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

First of let me say i am no chemest of any sort just a brave explorer I have actually grown them on non coated ground morning glory seeds just because i had a bag lying around i used to ground them up and eat them. I did notice quite a different trip a lot more visual than anything else i have ever experienced which seemed to last longer on 5 grams dry.

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Offlineripper225
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: redood]
    #4721076 - 09/27/05 04:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

has no one else ever tried this? (the morning glory thing, or even HBWR seeds?)

Edited by ripper225 (09/27/05 04:40 PM)

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Offlineripper225
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Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ripper225]
    #4732545 - 09/29/05 04:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Bueller... Bueller... Bueller...

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