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Offlineradio943dmt
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: 70skid]
    #5031898 - 12/08/05 08:32 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

noooooo.... guess I didnt say it but what I mean was,

The point being is, you dont have to extract anything!

All you would need to do is directly add in a small amount of ground up mimosa root bark, mix it right in with the substrate... i'd guess 10g bark for a 'pf style' jar but who knows.  You don't have to do anything but take a tiny bit of bark, put it in a blender or coffee grinder, blend it up, mix it in with some substrate and there ya go.

Thats the easiest way, i'd probably add a little bit of hcl or phosphoric acid just to make it all more water soluble, -- if i do this test with all these jars i'll do a couple this simple way, others add a little phosphoric acid etc. 

So basically, what work? :smile:  a dollar or two worth of mimosa bark, 5 minutes of blending it in a blender and yer all done.  Sounds like a good plan to me! hehe.


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OfflineMisterMyco
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #5034559 - 12/09/05 12:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I just got my e-mail from cognitive liberty that a new "Ask Dr. Shulgin" was available that deals with this somewhat. Dr Shulgin was sick for a little bit and in the hospital with pneumonia and has just gotten back on his feet enough to deal with some of the back issues. I believe that his book dealing exclusively with psychedelic chemicals in a Merck Index format is due for release soon and I think hes still dealing with that.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/

This deals with the compound 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT primarily but he discusses a study and a patent by Gartz that led Shulgin to the conclusion that Psilocybe mycelia has a natural tendancy to add a hydroxy funtional group on the four position of almost any compound that it came upon. Using this logic, I could see how n,n,-DMT could be so modified to produce 4-HO-DMT(psilocin) by the mycelia. One thing that I'd like to point out from the article that struck me as being possibly important;

Quote:


He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin.




and later in that same paragraph, discussing adding 5-Meo-DMT to a substrate used for mushroom cultivation;
Quote:


This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.




These two comments seem to indicate that the compound psilocin was NOT produced, that the mycelia were instead hydroxylating the 5-MeO-DMT to produce 4,5,HO-Meo-DMT. I'm wondering if their is some heirarchy of compounds that the mycelia deals with in a specific order. It would also be possible that the amount of enzymes required to catalyze this reaction would be limited. Thus, you'd end up with the same amount of 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT, as you would psilocin, because the power for the conversion would have just run out.

Now, how do I think that this relates to increasing the amount of psilocin by adding a tryptamine?

I think that the logic behind the theory of hydroxylation of the n,n,-DMT amine to form psilocin is sound. Shulgin and Gartz both sincerely believe that it works and I'm going to credit them as being valuable sources who's work I trust, at least until I could observe any evidence to the contrary myself. The big question would be, would the mycelia be able to perform it's normal function of psilocin production and the added function of hydroxylation of the added amine so that their would be more psilocin in the substrate.

I've tried using plants that are rich in DMT in my substrates before, but I think that a good blend of cow manure, straw, dehydrated seaweed and earthworm compost makes for about the most damn potent fungi possible and I didn't really notice a difference. Maybe their wasn't enough DMT in the subtrate to alter the content to a degree that a human would notice it.

I realize that I typed a lot and didn't really give an answer, sorry abotu that. I hope that someone tries some of the more unique tryptamines out and experiments with their 4-hydroxylated analogue.


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
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Offline70skid
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5038130 - 12/09/05 05:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If you're simply looking for a way to trip harder of less shrooms, this thread might be of interest

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4714757/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/49


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: 70skid]
    #5041268 - 12/10/05 05:39 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If it was simply about tripping harder on mushrooms, more mushrooms would be eaten. It's not like they're costly if you grow them, hehe. It's the science that's interesting.


--------------------
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Offlineradio943dmt
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5047209 - 12/11/05 04:38 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

These two comments seem to indicate that the compound psilocin was NOT produced, that the mycelia were instead hydroxylating the 5-MeO-DMT to produce 4,5,HO-Meo-DMT. I'm wondering if their is some heirarchy of compounds that the mycelia deals with in a specific order. It would also be possible that the amount of enzymes required to catalyze this reaction would be limited. Thus, you'd end up with the same amount of 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT, as you would psilocin, because the power for the conversion would have just run out.




Well there's this,


Seems in both of the studies they got 'around' 3.3% 4-ho-whatever out, adding tryptamine or DET, thats pretty good.. if its near 100% efficient, i'd guess over 90%.

Normally without adding DMT or tryptamine etc the number (psilocin/cybin combined) its closer to 0.5% (maybe less?) for typical mushrooms. Well my friends friend around the world somewhere plans to try this *sometime* soon, it would be nice to get some numbers figured out - example being just adding ground up mimosa bark, how many grams of bark for x grams substrate? etc. Sort of like a super shroom TEK I guess.

A previous msg from someone who's experimented with adding various amounts of DMT to substrate to 'pf style' jars, found that as long as it was at least 50mg, it'd be fully saturated and adding more won't get you even more potent shrooms - but it wouldn't hurt if there was extra DMT either.

There's at least 50mg's of DMT in only ~6g mimosa bark..

----
Oh yeah, I had a thought about how the couple times I had these REALLY potent cyanescens, I noticed the trip kicked in super fast, recently found this,

http://www.tacethno.com/info/psilocybe/gartz1.txt

It looks like for the most part cyanescens produce a fuckload more psilocin, and cubensis its mostly psilocybin, so a mostly psilocin filled cubensis mushroom grown from some mimosa bark (most of the potentiation will be from 4-ho-dmt) might produce a trip thats just like eating some real super potent cyanescens.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: radio943dmt]
    #5047412 - 12/11/05 06:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I have a side thought as well : Isnt psilocin less stable than psilocybin? I mean if one aims at long term storage of his fruits maybe a huge amount of psilocin and not too much psilocybin wouldnt be a good idea!

Unless of course one could find a way of forcing mycelium to turn psilocin to psilocybin!


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Offlineradio943dmt
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: radio943dmt]
    #5047453 - 12/11/05 06:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Found this one trip report he ate some mushrooms with DiPT added,

Quote:

Okay i am not a big writer and am writing this a year after growing and a week after tripping but i will try to give you some information witch might or might not interest the myco- or tripto-files reading this.
The idea behind this experiment came after reading the statement of A. Shulgin in his book Tihkal under 4-oh-det that maybe the mushroom was a "x in, 4-oh-x out"-machine, and the papers by J.Garz.
I had grown some cubensis using rye. I took one of my jars of completely collonated rye and added 100mg dipt to a small amount of soil and vermucellite. I had done this because in the earlyer stage of rye colonization i would normally loose some jars to infection. After a certain amount of time cubensis mushrooms started to appear. Unluckily i could harvest just a small amount of mushrooms before the rest of the culture got infected. It is with these mushrooms i did my experiment. I had given some to a friend who had reported eating just a little amount. But since the effects did not develop within 15 minutes (and he had taken a small dose) he concluded that he had not had an 4-oh-dipt effect.

Setting: a cottage in sweden
Substances: half a B-100 pill, half a C-1000 pill, about 2mg of deprenyl (held under the tung), half a 40mg inderal pill, four OO capsules of mushroom powder with about 3,1 grams of mushroom powder total, half a 50mg tofisopam tablet.

Chronology:

11:00 or 12:00 : had eaten breakfast of pasta from the dinner the day before

13:50 : Decide to take the mushrooms today. And take some b-vit, c-vit (both time release), inderal, and deprenyl. I take the first two almost every day. The deprenyl i take two or three times per week. I should probably have left the deprenyl out. But after an earlyer experience where i had purposefully abstained from deprenyl for 10 days, so as to not mess with my first taste of Methylone, and then found the effect of Methylone (180mg) to be almost completely absent i decided that i should make a point of taking my "medicine"that day (someone else taking 1 mg every day had had no problems with Methylone, and i had read a comment of one guy who had much less effect from mdma when taking 5mg deprenyl three days prior, but not when taking directly prior to mdma). Of course Methylone and mdma are no triptamines, but hey, i did what i did anyway. The inderal was to combat the panic wich sometimes comes over me when taking a psychedelic these days. I did not want the panic to spiral out of control, and thought of it as a possibility to overcome that panic just as stage fright can be overcome by taking inderal once or a few times before an event, and then by positive learning making the use of the substance unneccesary. The inderal impacted my trip but i think it also did do what i intended.

14:00 : I drop the first of four capsules. pack a bag with some provisions and cd's. Put on "bitches brew" by Miles Davis and leave the cottage to have a walk. Short panic, what have i done? Is this what i want? But i go my way and think no more of it. After about ten or more minutes of walking i have an alert that something is happening, but it does not develop.

14:15 : I took another capsule of mushroom powder. Since 4-oh-dipt seems to be a fast and hard hitter i had planned to space the four capsules 15 minutes apart. If the mushrooms tuned out to be more potent than normal mushrooms (wich would mean there would at least be some 4-oh-dipt along with psilocybin, i had read of up to 3% strength with triptamine/DET fed mushrooms) i would have some time to find out before taking a full dose. The swedish scenery was beautiful with little fields with cows forrest, and a little stream running threw. I decide to lay down on a natural stone wall and enjoy the view. No more than the alert before.

14:35 : Take another capsule. I am surprised not to feel any more than i do. Normally i would feel something within half an hour of taking mushrooms. Maybe a year of storage might have decreased potency quite a bit.

14:40 : What the fuck, i drop the last capsule and head back to the cabin. The scenery makes me think this would be a good place to take acid. Probably because it reminds me of switzerland where i had taken my first day time acid.

Ok now the chronology gets lost. I can just estimate.
When coming back to the cabin (probably about ten or fifteen minutes after taking the last capsule) i sit down in the garden and look at the lake and the trees surrounding me. I start to feel the trip. It feels different than a mushroom trip. I come to the conclusion that this is : more purple than mushrooms... and think the description is quite funny. Hi hi..
When looking at my surroundings the purpleness reminds me of 2-ct-7 (probably because the package(blue mystic) was blue/purple) and also reminds me of it and other substances because it feels "chemical" (not dirty just not organic). I do not feel a connection with the trees, nature seems uninteresting ( in contrast to mushrooms, lsd, or san pedro). I decide to close my eyes and check it out. A swirling..*snip*




from - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215910&r=4


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Offlineradio943dmt
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: radio943dmt]
    #5047491 - 12/11/05 06:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I have a side thought as well : Isnt psilocin less stable than psilocybin? I mean if one aims at long term storage of his fruits maybe a huge amount of psilocin and not too much psilocybin wouldnt be a good idea!

Unless of course one could find a way of forcing mycelium to turn psilocin to psilocybin!




Yeah probably have to be real careful when drying shrooms with a lot of psilocin (no heat even do it in a refrigerator).

Yeah I am curious about adding phosphoric acid, I just thought about this today too, I think adding the bark itself will lower the ph a little, well - can always add phosphoric acid but then adjust the ph to 7-8 (or whatever is optimal) with some kind of base, NaOH, KOH, NaCHO3/baking soda, calcium, maybe end up adding 100mg's of something-phosphate, whatever works sodium phosphate or something to see if the mushrooms would come out with more psilocybin (or just more 4-phosphoryloxy-whatever's - its gotta get that phosphoric acid from somewhere right?)


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Offline888
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: radio943dmt]
    #5056531 - 12/13/05 07:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

The most potent mushrooms I've ever had were grown on wild grasses collected near rivers. I always figured dmt just absorbs into the mushroom because its shown as sometimes present in wild mushrooms. I don't know why exactly but I do know wild grasses make more potency.

I would suspect wild grasses have a better overall nutrient complex. I honestly felt the mushrooms really liked the grass. It smelled sweet and they would eat it up quick. Plus they just felt happy.

Would these grasses have anything besides dmt in them that would cause potency increase?

Eating mushrooms freshly picked I think makes for a stronger trip. They taste better than store bought mushrooms.

*Quick tip* after you pasturise your grass dump the grass water where you want to kill weeds. It works. (and cut the grass into small peices 1/2" - 1" , spawn grows faster and its easier at harvest time)


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Offlineneoboom
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: 888]
    #5120902 - 12/30/05 08:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ehm, guys..

Use what you have readily available in the world.

Bananas and Tomatoes have tryptamine...
easy to get, and not on a watch list.

the metabolic path will take care of the rest.


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OfflineAloysius
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: neoboom]
    #5450063 - 03/28/06 03:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Excuse my ignorance, I'm too lazy to read everything, but what are you trying to do here? Create shrooms with DMT in 'em? You'd have to take a MAO inhibitor for it to make use..

neoboom has a point, mixing in some tryptophan rich foods might already do the trick

as for adding phosphor to increase psilocybin production, normal garden fertilizer contains P2O5 amongst other nutrients, could be beneficial to add this to your substrate too.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Aloysius]
    #5450814 - 03/28/06 07:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

this thread is five years old, even the last post is three months ago. c'mon dude, please!

'Advanced Mycology' forum is chock full of threads (approx one in every five, i reckon) concerning adding tryptamines to substrate to increase mushroom potency. every time it's someone who thinks this is a groundbreaking new concept, but has no alternative forum to post this in. since they're usually fairly new themselves, they don't search or even scan the first page for ideas. it'd be a major enhancement to this forum if someone who knows this topic thoroughly could collect and compile a nice stock answer, preferably with the occasional pic to break up the text, that recognises all the major points.



then at least these threads could all be closed and referred to one source. it'll still mean there's at least two threads on the first page dealing with this subject, but at least it won't be eight threads.


anyone wanna take this on?  :rolleyes: :heartpump:


--------------------
buh


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OfflinePashasan
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: shirley knott]
    #5451419 - 03/28/06 11:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ummm yeah. Look im not a profetional pharmacologist but i have to point out here DMT is not active in oral dosages without an MAOI like Syrian RUe... soooo i would go ahead and not wasit a substantial amount of DMT on this idea. Post ingestion aplication is prolly the best idea..

(with 350 mg, orally) "Completely without effect either physiological or psychological." *TIHKAL A.Shuglin*


--------------------
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OfflineAkira
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: shirley knott]
    #5451805 - 03/29/06 12:55 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
this thread is five years old, even the last post is three months ago. c'mon dude, please!

'Advanced Mycology' forum is chock full of threads (approx one in every five, i reckon) concerning adding tryptamines to substrate to increase mushroom potency. every time it's someone who thinks this is a groundbreaking new concept, but has no alternative forum to post this in. since they're usually fairly new themselves, they don't search or even scan the first page for ideas. it'd be a major enhancement to this forum if someone who knows this topic thoroughly could collect and compile a nice stock answer, preferably with the occasional pic to break up the text, that recognises all the major points.



then at least these threads could all be closed and referred to one source. it'll still mean there's at least two threads on the first page dealing with this subject, but at least it won't be eight threads.


anyone wanna take this on?  :rolleyes: :heartpump:




Amen to that. Nearly 50% of the threads in this forum are about adding tryptamine to increase potency. Funny thing about it is that most of them are too full of crap to read and come to an intelligent conclusion. Ive read a bunch of of these threads, and still don't know what the final; conclusion. I do think it leans more to the positive side, their is just no scientific proof as no one here really has a chemist lab or the tools necessary to measure the amount of psilocin in the mushrooms.

I say compile a good thread with info on adding tryptamine to add potency and sicky it.


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OfflineEttin
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Akira]
    #5451970 - 03/29/06 01:42 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, now that this has been ranted on for the Nth time, can anyone who has had experience give us a rough estimate of how much of whatever DMT plant you use per 1lb [dry] of poo? Or any scientific documentation thereof?


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OfflineShroomInduced
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Ettin]
    #5465274 - 04/01/06 04:35 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Ill just put some DMT contaning bark in some cakes, and give them to my freinds and see what they think. seems easy enough.


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OfflineHypercube
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: ShroomInduced]
    #5465335 - 04/01/06 05:00 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.




This is from http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/index.html , written by Dr. Shulgin. Just thought it was interesting.


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Offlineshirley knott
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summary FAQ answer... tryptamine-enhanced substrates? [Re: shirley knott]
    #5633144 - 05/16/06 12:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
'Advanced Mycology' forum is chock full of threads (approx one in every five, i reckon) concerning adding tryptamines to substrate to increase mushroom potency. it'd be a major enhancement to this forum if someone who knows this topic thoroughly could collect and compile a nice stock answer, preferably with the occasional pic to break up the text, that recognises all the major points.

anyone wanna take this on?  :rolleyes: :heartpump:




anyone?


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Offlinenimmen
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: shirley knott]
    #5645326 - 05/18/06 03:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

would you mind putting links to your posts of dmt extraction?
=]


--------------------
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