Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleSolarFlare
Lady Flare

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 194
Loc: LaLa Land
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1948862 - 09/24/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

and then the sldr.-3-2.x3.s analogue into the sls5.2cl3/3c-3#2.x wich converts to the C.3z03.x/4dlkj4-3-3-3


--------------------
Im just a photographer for a foaf :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: SolarFlare]
    #1949230 - 09/24/03 07:03 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

what the fuck are you talking about?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1950392 - 09/25/03 04:12 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

look at the pictures of each, the hydroxy, phosphorloxy and acetoxy (all 3 in the pic above) sections dont change from chem to chem




Lol!  What phosphorloxy groups are in the pictures?  Those compounds don't even have phosphorus in them....

I think the person was discussing DPT, anyway.  It doesn't matter how different you think they look; even if they have the same binding site the drugs may have very different effects once they reach your brain; the sidechain can really effect the way the compound is broken down, for example (let alone binding efficiency,) which can have a really large impact on its mental effect.  The person who started this thread wanted to know if you could hydroxylate the DPT in vivo to make the more potent form of the drug.  I can't answer that question, and I don't think anyone else can, for sure, until some tests are done.

BTW -- tryptamine is the same as psilocin up to the N on the sidechain, except for the phenol group; tryptamine doesn't have a carbonyl on the bezene ring.

I'm sure I've read that psiocybin dephosphorylizes in vivo, but it might be in the liver; I don't know.  We'd be more concerned with the enzymes that the fungus produces, however.  BTW -- what is the blood-brain barrier, exactly?  Noone has ever been able to tell me :wink:

WR -- I don't know what you mean by liquid culture -- the mushroom's enzymes (for psiloc-) don't really kick in until it fruits.  If you mean establishing maximum potential for yield through a minimal media it might just break the stuff down further.  I can see where you're going but I don't think psilocin is really used as source of nutrition -- it's produced on the Shikimic acid pathway which almost always produces byproducts not essential for vitile (and ideally sterile) life functions (except in some parasites where it is.)

Basically mushrooms convert chorismate -> tryptophan -> tryptamine, and most of the downregulation is at the step where tryptophan gets decarboxylized into tryptamine.  This is why adding a trypt*amine* should increase potency by a good factor; if it has tryptamine already there is no need for decarboxylation since tryptamine is the finished product of that reaction.  If it does get downregulated it should be at a step before the tryptamine.  As far as how (and to what extent) it metabolizes other tryptamines, however, I don't know.  I would imagine a good chunk of the DPT should get broken down somewhere.

--
Micro

 


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1950540 - 09/25/03 07:24 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WR -- I don't know what you mean by liquid culture -- the mushroom's enzymes (for psiloc-) don't really kick in until it fruits. If you mean establishing maximum potential for yield through a minimal media it might just break the stuff down further. I can see where you're going but I don't think psilocin is really used as source of nutrition -- it's produced on the Shikimic acid pathway which almost always produces byproducts not essential for vitile (and ideally sterile) life functions (except in some parasites where it is.)





I see your point but the jist of the experiment is to determine the highest concentration of the dialkylamine w/o harming mycelial growth.This concentration is then used as a P/F style additive and will produce fruits which are around 2x more potent,whether the 4-HO or 4-OPO derivitive is responsible is a conjecture in the abscence of proper analysis.
As for the alkyl ligands anything below the butyl group apears active with only the higher substituions being oraly active via the blood brain barrier and lesser substitutions being parenteraly injected or vaporized and inhaled.
The sole purpose of the liquid culture is to determine if and how much of a dialkyltryptamine Can be tolerated by the Myc.
Much of this is based on feild observations of Ps.semmilanceata which when growing in aquatic phalaris are several X more potent than those found in timothy hay.Phalaris is a producer of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT along with several other alkaloids, some process in the fungi is utilizing the tryptamines for extra potency.It is reasonable to assume they will react to similar tryptamines accordingly
WR


--------------------
To old for this place


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1950932 - 09/25/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I agree, in those respects.

The fungi has enzymes to convert tryptamine -> psilocybin. The way it controls this is downregulation, or the "switching off" of an enzyme in the metabolic pathway when there is too much product. This is why tryptamine works so well -- usually, first, it'll simply stop making tryptamine, but it's in the substrate so that doesn't really matter. As for DMT, if I remember correctly there is only an addition of a 5-HO on the C ring to make psilocin; it's even more similar than tryptamine, itself, so this is almost a sure hit.

The toxicity is a good point -- never even thought of it. I don't know if it would be toxic in reasonable amounts, but it's something to think about....

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1951264 - 09/25/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
Quote:

look at the pictures of each, the hydroxy, phosphorloxy and acetoxy (all 3 in the pic above) sections dont change from chem to chem




Lol!  What phosphorloxy groups are in the pictures?  Those compounds don't even have phosphorus in them....





all i was trying to do with the pic was explain to shifting that the structures arent all that similar after he said whats below.  as for the other two compounds, i know they dont contain any phosphorous, i was talking about the other three structures in the picture.  although i didnt use the word "sidechain" im sure you could have figured out what i was getting at if you thought about it for a second instead of finding a good way to give me shit.  i dont really have any chemistry background so give me a break, you could at least correct me without being a dick about it.
Quote:

theshiftingwalls said:
Look at this :eek: , 4-acetoxy-DiPT ressembles psilocybin and 4-HO-DiPT ressembles psilocin :smile:.



 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: ]
    #1951844 - 09/25/03 05:07 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

psilocin/psilocybin is produced by mycelium in liquid culture.

the phosphoryl group is hydrolysed quatitatively, which makes *cin and *cybin equally active by molar quantity.


what is chorismate? i have never heard of this before. all the research i have read on mushroom enzyme sequences is that psilocin starts with trytophan. do you have a refrence for this?

a background in chemistry is usually kind of requisite for discussing chemistry, IMHO.

the blood-brain barrier is a really comprehensive screening aparatus that makes sure no baddies get into the blood that the brain uses.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletak
geo's henchman
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1952678 - 09/25/03 09:53 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

This is cool. When i eat drugs i trip. When mushrooms eat drugs they spit out new ones.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJazzMatazz
addict

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: tak]
    #1953720 - 09/26/03 07:45 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

No offence,but: Why doesnt someone just try it and test it. If he's fucked more than usual we know the answer!
Unless of course you wanna keep on the hypothetical discourse...
:wink:


--------------------
Perception is limited to consciousness.Expand it and unfold other realities.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954095 - 09/26/03 11:12 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

doktor_alternate said:
a background in chemistry is usually kind of requisite for discussing chemistry, IMHO.





FINE well if you just want me to stop posting here i will!! maybe i'll go cut myself too!! YOU JUST MADE ME SNAP!!!!!!*


*note:  the phrase that describes the previous is "to pull a shiftingwalls"

anyways, you're probably right, i just find this stuff interesting so i like to participate, i'll just keep to myself and observe until i know more of what im talking about :grin: 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954166 - 09/26/03 11:42 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

what is chorismate? i have never heard of this before. all the research i have read on mushroom enzyme sequences is that psilocin starts with trytophan. do you have a refrence for this?




Tryptophan is synthesized in vivo from chorismate -- I could find you journal articles if you want, but you should be able to do a web search and find it, like:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?x=wrt&...p;n=20&fl=0

Hope that helped!

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1954778 - 09/26/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

oh, neat. thanks! i guess tryptamine, or other amines are still the best precursors to spike one's substrate with what with the downregulation of tryptophan decarboxylase.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1954957 - 09/26/03 03:59 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

What about LSA?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1956298 - 09/27/03 01:09 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

whatabout LSA? the 4 position is already bound, and the bulk of the molecule is like right in the way!

but maybe there is a diethylamidease enzyme somewhere that would be neat for that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1956316 - 09/27/03 01:17 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Oh so many wonders :wink:.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsiloman
member
Male
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1956797 - 09/27/03 08:58 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

General enzyme knowledge: For an enzyme to work it needs the substrate (DPT,or LSA that was mentioned) to be able to enter the enzymes ctive site.The mushrooms 4-oh enzyme hasnt got that great specificity (some enzymes can only operate on a single substrate) but LSA looks too big forthe enzyme to handle


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletheshiftingwalls
Divine state

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Residing in thee Universa...
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Psiloman]
    #1958002 - 09/27/03 07:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

But it will break down the tryptamine base...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1961693 - 09/29/03 01:07 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

mushroom enzymes will 4-hydroxylate tryptamine bases. LSA is a tryptamine analogue (of sorts, it does contain an indole ring, but its pretty well a big multicyclic monster of its own), but the spot that you would hydroxylate on the indole ring of a tryptamine using the mushroom enzymes is already bound really well. there is no way you could hydroxylate LSA in mushrooms, especially because the way the tryptamines fit into the 4-hydroxylase active site, LSA has this huge freakin conjugated double bond muticyclic aparatus right in the way. translation: LSA wont be processed by mushroom enzymes.

P. cubensis's tryptamine 4-hydroxylase is a pretty non-specific enzyme, in that many different n-alkyl analogues of DMT can be hydroxylated. some enzymes are so specific that only one chiral configuration of one molecule will be processed.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: micro]
    #1975162 - 10/03/03 05:18 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

my Swiss friend has 1g DPT HCL and a nice GT isolate.
he has a tight setup and a control group.

should he mix the DPT w/ ALL of the compost? how much per Kg?
or should he just add it to a 1" layer on top? or the casing?

he wants to add it to distilled water (100mg / L) and spray the fruits,
but i don't think that would be the best way to go about it...

thanx for advice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
Re: Growing high content 4-HO-DPT/4-HO-DMT mushrooms. [Re: Middleman]
    #1977256 - 10/03/03 06:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

put 250mg into the casing for a *small* terrarium (maybe even in a largish mason jar).
have another *small* terrarium, identically shaped, identically processed, identical in every way except for the DPT.

then: take 50mg of DPT and rail it.
then: wait for your mush to grow, extract appropriately, do a
thin layer chromatograph analysis, and look for one extra band on the DPT line.
for instructions on how to do extractions and TLC, pm me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* DMT/psilocybin increase detection gray1 1,221 2 06/05/01 07:48 PM
by jonnyshaggs420
* Major mushroom operation growing methods DEA files
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 7,701 32 04/04/12 11:22 AM
by RogerRabbit
* Will Cyans And Azure grow on Pine Chips?? Datrutankdogg69 1,328 4 11/25/01 02:57 PM
by Datrutankdogg69
* high temp loving mushrooms fuzzysquirelnuts 3,973 9 05/23/02 12:20 PM
by strang
* My shrooms grown on DMT-rich substrate. Dogomush 6,627 19 04/14/03 08:06 PM
by Catalysis
* For doubters of the DMT substrate method.
( 1 2 all )
Explorer 9,215 30 05/22/01 09:10 AM
by gray1
* growing cube's on phalaris? ninotaras 2,594 17 06/23/02 03:13 PM
by Rentech
* Lets start fresh...DMT substrate
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Bleuboxo 26,263 98 05/18/06 06:48 AM
by nimmen

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
44,107 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.