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OfflineBleuboxo
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Lets start fresh...DMT substrate
    #315374 - 05/12/01 02:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

now, in SUPER POTENT SHROOMS post...we talked about adding a DMT substrate....that post got too long so ill start another topic...ive gathered a list full of plant names that all contain DMT, im trying to do research but cannot find the amounts of DMT in each plant, tree, shrub, grass. my best choice would be to go with a grass, its easy cultivated, takes less time than any of the other ones and probably has a decent amount of DMT in there anyways. Ill show the list, i know the Phalaris grasses....but those are the only grasses i know, do you recognize any other grasses on this list?

Phalaris Arundinacea

Phalaris Aquaticus

Aizoaceae Delosperma

Petalostylis Cassiodies

Lespedeza Bicolor

Mucuna Pruriens

Mimosaceae Anadenanthera
*Colubrina
*Contorta
*Excelsa
*Macrocarpa
*Peregrina
( black beans from the above tree species )

Desmanthus Illinoensis
Testulea Gabonensis
Malpighiaceae Banisteriopsis
*Muricata
*Rusbyana
Virola
*Calophylla
*Calophylloidea
*Rufula
*Sebifera
*Theiodora
The bark resin of these trees is used to prepare hallucinogenic snuffs in northwestern Brazil by boiling, drying and pulverizing it. Snuffs made from V. theiodora bark contain up to 11% 5-MeO-DMT and DMT. Also leaves, roots and flowers contain DMT.
Poaceae Arundo Donax
Phragmites Australis
Rubiaceae Psychotria
*carthaginensis
*viridis
Limonia Acidissima
Zanthoxylum Aborescens

***species ( lots of them under one genus )

it was discussed that psilocybin breaks down tryptamine into DMT eventually, then the DMT becomes psilocybin, well by adding a substrate that contains DMT we have just eliminated two steps. all we need to find is that one other step. and we know what to do its just time...but if you see any other grasses post. so far i think im going to order some phalaris aquaticus---arundinacea seeds and cultivate them. but if anyone else can point out any other grasses or easy cultivated plants....anything you see from the above list would help.

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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InvisibleDirtmaster
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #315449 - 05/12/01 05:50 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

But you're just guessing that DMT can and will be used by the mycelium to produce more psilocybine. I don't see the rationale behind this, it's just groundless speculation.



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OfflineExplorer
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Dirtmaster]
    #315514 - 05/12/01 10:14 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It is not groundless speculation. It has been done. The chemistry makes perfect sense, so where's the problem? I grow Phalaris Arundinacea and have a continuous suply. Extracting it could possibly (more research needed) be brought down to 30 minutes or even less. My next batch will be given over to making substrate. I'll post the results, after an impartial, blind tasting, and that should end the argument about whether it's possible. I'm sure some people will still argue that the shrooms should be left to their own devices, but I think that it's just the same as adding a fertiliser to plants. It's just food for the fungus, and more fun for us. Maybe a mycelium could be grown on a mix containing Mimosa root bark? That would give it access to loads of N.N.DMT.



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OfflineBleuboxo
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Explorer]
    #315673 - 05/12/01 02:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

no it defintley is not groundless speculation....if oyu say this is groundless speculation than you are going against the shroomery itself. read Gartz' way of adding tryptamine to the substrate....DMT has already converted tryptamine...its at phase 3 of 4 at becoming psilocybin ( from the mushrooms perspective ) ...adding DMT casing or substrate would work. read the pathways to it on super potent shrooms thread. hey explorer...what plants produce the most amounts of DMT if you know. i heard phalaris aquaticus from a seed company somewhere in the US sells some pretty potent stuff. there prices are $10-15 for a seed packet. i would use mimmosa if it has more amounts but using the grasses are easier to cultivate and easier to use as a substrate/casing. any feedback on this?

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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Anonymous

Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #315814 - 05/12/01 06:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

DMT should work. Sounds like a lot of trouble, but go for it!!!



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OfflineExplorer
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: ]
    #315825 - 05/12/01 06:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Here are some known concentrations
Acacia bark: 0.71% DMT
Mimosa root: 0.57% DMT
Virola shoots & flowers: 0.44% DMT
Desmanthus rootbark: 0.34% DMT
Phalaris: 0.17% DMT, 0.06% 5MeO

As you can see, although Mimosa does not have the highest concentrations, it is very easy to find in cultivation. None of the plants containing DMT are controlled in either US or UK law, and are completely legal to own.

More info on the boards at dmt.lycaeum.org



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OfflineAshaman
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Explorer]
    #315827 - 05/12/01 06:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

mimosa root may be just .57%, but the rootbark contains most of the DMT and comes in at about 1%



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OfflineBleuboxo
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Ashaman]
    #315842 - 05/12/01 06:55 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

thanks for the great info guys. i also was wondering about extraction of DMT and adding a considerable amount to the substrate. i read in a couple of places that its not that hard to make extractions but ive just sent out the last of my laboratory equiptment and theres no possible way to buy more equiptment....so cultivating a plant/grass/tree are the only options i have. im interested in phalaris and mimmosa. i guess im down to two and was wondering what is mimmosa?? is it hard to grow? is it a tree/shrub? thanks again.

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #316012 - 05/13/01 01:31 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

What if you didn't even bother to extract the DMT and just mix straight or ground some of the grasses/beans or what ever into cakes??? would this work or do you have to extract it??

"like a Japanese Cowboy or a blind man on skates"Ween
"you must make sure that the lady's pure for the Funky Cold Medina"Tone Loc


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OfflineBleuboxo
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: BrownPastures]
    #316044 - 05/13/01 03:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

well i myself am not 100% positive it will work. from an ounce of bark the alkaloid level was a little over 10g from a recent extraction. if you are going to grow any type of mushroom on a substrate, it should have at LEAST a minumum amount of DMT. there has to be a way of finding out how much DMT ( extract or substrate ) actually needs to be converted into .15g of tryptamine. in the gartz experiment they inculded the dosage of .15g of tryptamine to the substrate cake. how much DMT should be needed to make fruits 3-4 times potent? you have to determine this. tryptamine gets broken up eventually into DMT. c - a = b? so .15 grams of tryptamine is exactly the same as .15 grams of DMT? just some questions i had sitting in my head. Sorry i couldnt answer your question Brown Pastures, but there is so much research that i have to do before i can answer your question. or maybe someone else on the board can answer it. i also did read about someone adding mimosa root bark ( ground up into a powder ) into there substrate and him and several of his friends could not handle all but one mushroom... i just want to prove this theory about potent shrooms. it would be nice to grow a couple hundred, shred them to a fine powder and pack one mushroom a pill....one pill is all you would need, and then you'd tons of trips for the rest of the year. hehe. cheers.

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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OfflineExplorer
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: BrownPastures]
    #316047 - 05/13/01 03:43 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Bleuboxo - You really don't need to bother growing any DMT containing plants. Mimosa Hostilis root bark is available from loads of entheogen supply companies and is completely legal to buy and own - for identification purposes only of course.

Of all the DMT containing varieties, Mimosa root bark would probably make the best substrate component, or if an extraction is necessary, then Mimosa is best for that too.

As I have already said, pending verification, it seems that for non-consumable use a butane extraction might work on Mimosa. The DMT alkaloids should be enough to nourish shrooms without having to convert them to freebase, although as freebase the product is very pure, and so may limit the chances of having contams in. The boiling point for DMT means that excessive temps should be avoided (it melts at about 57 degrees C).

If the butane extraction is sufficient, then no lab equipment is needed. All that is required is a foot long PVC pipe, 2-3 inches in diameter. Fit a cottonn T-shirt tightly over one end and use a thick piece of cardboard with a hole in the middle over the other end. Fill the pipe 2/3 full with roughly ground Mimosa Hostilis root bark. Then Hold the pipe over a pyrex beaker using a thick glove. The pipe will freeze, so you don't want to be holding it with an unprotected hand. Then insert the nozzle of a can of lighter re-fil gas into the hole in your cardboard sheet and spray the whole can through. Depending on the size of your can and pipe, you might need more than one can. The pipe will frost over on the outside in about a minute, then liquid butane will start streaming out of the bottom along with the DMT alkaloids. Once you have finished, the beaker will be full of bubbling butane, boiling off at room temperature. Make sure this is done in a VERY well ventilated area, and avoid all sources of sparks or ignition. To boil off the butane quicker you can rest the beaker in a pan of hot water. The tarry material that is left in the bottom of the beaker should contain all the goodies from the Mimosa.

I have included the above for informational purposes only.

Now this method should grab the DMT alkaloids, but I haven't tested the end product to see exactly what it contains, and so can't be 100% sure. I can't test it by taking it either, as I don't get off on DMT (although it is possiblt that I need a psilocin pre-dose).

Hope some of this helps.



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OfflineBleuboxo
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #316049 - 05/13/01 03:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

oh i forgot to add...maybe you can reverse the process_
instead of adding DMT or extracting it, maybe you can extract tryptamine from DMT? it'll be like extracing milk from cheese in a way if you see what im saying. then thats the way to determining how much actual DMT you would need for those super potenters_if it actually increases potency...so much research needs to be done;

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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OfflineExplorer
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #316051 - 05/13/01 03:48 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

In the report I've seen, 100mgs of DMT was added to a half-pint jar which resulted in a 3-4 times increase in psilocin levels. An active dose of psilocin is roughly 10mg so your increasing the half-pint jar by about ten doses. If the DMT is converted by this unknown hydroxilase then all of the DMT that the mycelium comes in contact with should be converted to psilocin.



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OfflineBleuboxo
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Explorer]
    #316062 - 05/13/01 04:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

explorer thanks, i acutally have 4 bottles of butane for this mini blowtorch i have. i will be sure to try this method. i have actually seen mimosa bark somewhere on the net, im sure i can find it again. im trying to get the best info i can on my projects, i just moved in a new apartment so im short on cash. the butane method seems fairly inexpensive, and im only doing 1-2 casings with root bark by itself. this project should be fairly inexpensive all together.

" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


--------------------
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"


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InvisibleDirtmaster
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #316096 - 05/13/01 06:53 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

this is all bullshit. just because tryptamine might raise potency, that doesn't mean dmt or tryptophan or lsd will raise potency. groundless speculation...



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OfflinePsilocybin
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #316098 - 05/13/01 06:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

From what I have read the only way to extract DMT is through acid base extractions. Im not an expert, but I have seen many people that swear by acid base extractions, and seeing as how the butane extraction sounds so easy I dont know why they wouldn't have switched if it works that well. Have you actually heard reports of butane extraction or is that theoretical? And if so, on what principals?

This sounds like a very promising way to increase potency, I think anyone that can obtain DMT should run some tests. And for anyone that does know a good source, would you mind sharing? maybe a little hint, or just PM me if you want to avoid posting it in public. I know of one with a good reputation but it is currently out of stock of mimosa rootbark.



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OfflinePsilocybin
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Dirtmaster]
    #316104 - 05/13/01 07:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Dirtmaster, the reason tryptamine and DMT work is that when the fungus makes psiloc(yb)in (the stuff that makes you trip) it converts chemicals already found in your substrate(nitrogen, phosphorus) to make the psilocybin. It does this is in several steps, by making simpler chemicals into more complex ones, therefore if you add more of the simpler ones, the fungus will convert them into more complex ones. Tryptamine is 2 steps before psilocybin, and DMT is the step right before psilocybin. DMT and psilocybin are very similiar chemically, but psilocybin is over 100 times more potent when ingested, so you can use only a small amount of DMT to make a large amount of psilocybin.
lsd and tryptophan are not similiar to psilocybin in anyway, and the fungus will be unable to use them. And there have been tests that PROVE, with chemical analysis, that tryptamine increses potency, so this is definitly not groundless speculation.



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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Psilocybin]
    #316344 - 05/13/01 04:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think that extracting DMT is nessesary. If you dry the plant that you get your DMT from and grind it to a fine powder it could be added to substrate or possibly casings. Once the mycellum grows through the substrate it will gain access to the DMT.

The only benifit that I see from doing a extraction would be that you can take a measurement of the exact amount of DMT that you are adding.



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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleDirtmaster
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Psilocybin]
    #316440 - 05/13/01 08:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you know nothing of biochemistry and you are wrong. just because tryptamine may increase potency it doesn't mean dmt will. tryptamine and dmt are not the same. you don't understand that shifting one atom can totally change the properties of a molecule.



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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Lets start fresh...DMT substrate [Re: Dirtmaster]
    #316558 - 05/13/01 11:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Dirtmaster I don't know if you saw this:

L-tryptophan --> tryptamine
tryptamine --> N-methyltryptamine
N-methyltryptamine --> N,N-dimethyltryptamine
N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) --> psilocin & psilocybin

This is the pathway for psilocybin production in fungi. You can see that N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is the immediate precursor to psilocin & psilocybin.

In Theory adding DMT will increase potency since it is a precursor just like tryptamine is.




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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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