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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90436 - 11/10/99 01:44 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, this could be used to the advantage of the Dissociative/Tryptamine Combination. Suppose you were to put a Dissociative such as DXM into the substrate creating a mushroom with a synergist combination. Check out the "Dissociatives and Tryptamines" topic for more info:


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 10, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90439 - 11/10/99 02:02 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I have made some similar but different posts like this one on two other BB's, DMT World and The Hive. Just in case you want to know what someone might have to say on those boards, I am including a link here:


-PsiliPharm, Youjutsu, and Nemesis

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90440 - 11/10/99 11:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well it turns out that the 5-position may be too close to the 4-position to create 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT but you may be able to make 4-MeO-DMT with 4-MeO-Tryptamine in the substrate and you'll probably also end up with some partial methylation meaning 4-MeO-NMT may be present also. Other interesting compounds may be made with Mescaline-containing cactii with Dopamine analogs, check out The Hive BB above for more info.

Well, I've decided to provide you with some other threads on here talking about putting drugs into the substrate. Here they are:

5-HTP in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000383.html

Additives in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000359.html

Salvia in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000382.html

Get your shrooms HIGH? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000377.html

Adding Drugs to Substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000368.html

Vitamin C in substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000364.html

Ketamine to substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000376.html

Indole instead of Tryptamine http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000337.html

PssionFlower http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000312.html

Laters, Youjutsu

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90441 - 11/10/99 11:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

dude, you are a crazy man. :wink:

"Who is John Galt?"

Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud



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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90442 - 11/12/99 04:13 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

As most of you may know DMT is quickly converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) in shrooms alot quicker than Tryptamine and plus DMT is also fun by itself, combined with mushrooms, combined with beta-carbolines, or combined with both. Well for those of you who need to know of some good sources for these DMT and beta-carboline containing plants, here they are:

Timberwolf Gardens (Fly Agaric, HBWR, San Pedro, Yohimbe, etc.) http://members.home.net/alister/

The Basement Shaman (Salvia, Yage, Datura, Live Plants, Herbs, Spores) http://www.basementshaman.com/

Ho-Ti Nursery (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.ho-tinursery.com/

Native Habitat (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.nativehabitat.com/plants.html

Sage Wisdom Salvia Shop (SALVIA DIVINORUM!) http://salvia.lycaeum.org/salviashop.html

Logee's Greenhouse (Ethnobotanical Plants http://logees.com/www/default.html

Pure Land Ethnobotanicals (Seeds, Herbs, Extracts, 5-MeO-DMT) http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/

[TAC] Ethnobotanicals (Rare Seeds and Herbs) http://www.tacethno.com/

Marijuana Alternatives (Salvia and other Smoking Blends) http://www.herbsmoke.com/

Peruvian Journey (Seeds and Plants) http://www.peruvian-journey.com/

Homestead Book Company (Mushroom Kits and Books) http://www.homesteadbook.com/

Mushroom Magic (The name says it all!) http://mushroommagic.com/

Herbal-Shaman (Herbs, Extracts, Teas, & Smokes) http://www.herbal-shaman.com/

Xingu Dawn (Ethnobotanicals) http://www.ethnobotany.net/motif.htm

Psilocybe Fanaticus (Spores, Mushroom Info) http://www.fanaticus.com/

Smart Publications (Smart Drug Books) http://www.smart-publications.com/

Climax Online Smartshop (Peyote, Shrooms, Yohimbe, Herbs, etc.) http://www.climax.net/

El Mercurio (Spanish Entheogen Site) http://www.mercurialis.com/

Biogenesis Labratories (GHB Products) http://www.biogenesis.co.za/

Companion Plants (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.frognet.net/companion_plants/index.html

Lambo Seeds (Plants including Iboga) http://www.aros.net/~lambo/order/order.htm

Fungi Perfecti Online (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.fungi.com/

Mushroom People (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/mpmisc.html

Psilocybe Mushrooms (Psilocybe Mushroom Info & Spore Prints) http://www.stainblue.com/

Smart Botanicals (Mushroom Spores/Supplies, Herbs, Seeds, Etc.) http://www.smart.nl/

Gnostic Garden (Seeds, Plants, etc.) http://www.gnosticgarden.ndirect.co.uk/

Kava Kauai (Salvia and Kava Kava) http://www.kauaisource.com/

Theatrum Botanicum (Herbs, Ethnobotanicals & Entheogens) http://www.hepting.com/thebot/

Amazing Nature (Mushroom Spores, Herbs, Seeds, Cacti, Etc.) http://amazing-nature.com/

Legendary Ethnobotanical Resources (Herbs, Plants & Seeds) http://www.ethnobotany.com/

Shaman Australis Botanicals (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.shaman-australis.com/

Abbey Ethnobotanicals http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/shanti/index.html.htm

Elixier Entheobotanic (German) http://www.snafu.de/~elixier/

Alphaware NZ (Legal Highs Supplier) http://www.alphaware.co.nz/index.html

Conscious Dreams Website http://www.consciousdreams.com/

Bolder Exotics (Smoking Supplies, Etc.) http://www.bolderexotics.com/

Smart Bomb (Smart Drugs, Vitamins, Etc.) http://www.smartbomb.com/index.html

Life Enhancement (Supplements, 5HTP, Etc.) http://www.life-enhancement.com/

Natural Technologies (L-Tryptophan, Etc.) http://www.biochemicals.com/

DREAM MAKER (Japanese, AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-DIPT) http://www.dream-m.com/

JLF Catalog (Just about anything Entheogenic, THE BEST!) http://www.jlfcatalog.com
Some products include:
5-MeO-DMT, DPT, DIPT, 5-MeO-DIPT, Amanita Muscaria, Mushroom Spores, Kits, Pure Salvinorin A Powder, DMT-Containing Plants, Beta-Carboline Containing Plants, Ibogaine-Containing Plants, and Many More!

MBE Tech (AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, DPT, GHB, etc.) http://www.mbetech.net

This was added much later to the list but I figured it was worth mentioning, but I don't think anyone from here will be able to buy from them.

BIOSYNTH (Very Professional, Tryptamines, Beta-Carbolines, Etc.) http://www.biosynth.com

Another List of Vendor Resources with Reviews:

Also for more reading and a list of plants containing DMT/Beta-Carbolines:

And if you don't know about a certain species that a vendor offers, just search for it on a search engine along with key words like "hallucinogen" or "psychedelic" or "drug". One good multi-search engine is http://www.dogpile.com and there are others. Always know as much as you can about a plant before experimenting with it.

For information on specific tryptamines and their effects which includes DMT, DIPT, DPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), 5-MeO-DIPT, Ibogaine, Beta-Carbolines, ETC.:

TIHKAL - Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml

Also, for further reference on Phenethylamines:

PIHKAL - Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved

Laters, PsiliPharm

[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90443 - 11/12/99 05:30 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, I've come up with an experiment that I would like some people with good knowledge of tryptamines and growing mushrooms.

A Comparison of Additives to Substrate and How They Effect The Trip


Tryptamine HCL (JLF Catalog)
5-HTP (Life Enhancement)
DMT (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
DIPT (JLF Catalog)
DPT (JLF Catalog, MBE Tech)
AMT (MBE Tech)
4-MeO-Tryptamine (Please Specify Source)
5-MeO-DMT (JLF Catalog, Pure Land Ethnobotanicals, MBE Tech)
5-MeO-DIPT (JLF Catalog, MBE Tech)
Beta-Carbolines (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
Ibogaine (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
LSA (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
DXM (JLF), Ketamine, PCP (Any NMDA-blocker)
Phenethylamines (Please Specify Source)
Salvia Divinorum (Sage Wisdom Salvia Shop)
Marijuana (Local Dealer)
Amanita Muscaria (JLF Catalog)
If any other drug is used please let me know.

Of the chemicals listed above, the ones that are of the most immediate interest are:

AMT - May Produce 4-HO-AMDMT! (Never Been Produced!)
DIPT - Will Produce 4-HO-DIPT! (Quite Fast Acting Drug, Very Interesting!)
DPT - Will Produce 4-HO-DPT! (Not Ventured in Man!)
4-MeO-Tryptamine - May Produce 4-MeO-DMT!
5-MeO-DMT - May Produce 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT?

In order to truely get a clear picture of how the trip is enhanced one must have experience with shrooms enhanced with Tryptamine HCL or DMT and make a comparison on how the trip is altered. Reason: To make sure that the drug inputed into the substrate isn't just being converted into 4-HO-DMT instead of transformed into a new drug. Same strains, methods of growing and ingestion must be compared. If taken in combination with another drug, please specify what. But in order to get a sound comparison, the fewer outside influences the better. If one thing is done for one trip, the same must be done for the other. So that way if the trip is significantly altered then the precense of another drug must be the case. I would read the entries for the above input and output products in TIHKAL:

If you haven't already enhanced shrooms with Tryptamine HCL, then start with that. Then move to something else. DIPT is the most likely canidate for this project because by itself it is ok but when converted to 4-HO-DIPT it becomes GREAT! and it's speed of action will probably be noticed alot easier. Something that has to go into consideration is how much is actually being used by each shroom. Suppose you want 20mg of 4-OH-DIPT per shroom and there are 5 shrooms per cake. (I am just guessing here.) Would 100mg DIPT get you the 20mg a piece or not? Probably not, so take that into consideration, but 100mg DIPT may be a good starting point. The thing that I'm worried about is whether or not you have to use the same amount of Tryptamine as you would DIPT to be an accurate comparison. If you choose to use DPT which is pretty good by itself and easier to obtain I would suggest to expect the same 20mg per shroom as a starting point. Personally, I think AMT is the grand daddy of them all but less predictable. 5-MeO-DMT may not work due to the 5-MeO being too close. Also, any 6 or 7 substituted tryptamines may work such as 6-fluoro-tryptamine (may be psychedelic by itself!) to produce something like 4-HO-6-F-DMT. If anyone knows of any good starting materials especially alpha, beta, 2, 4, 6, 7, and N-substituted material that may be interesting to use and have a source for it. Please post a message. If anyone decides to attempt this and would like to e-mail me instead of posting the report, check out my profile above for my e-mail address and my ICQ #.

Also, if anything is used other than a simple tryptamine such as Beta-carbolines, Ibogaine, DXM, or anything else, try and compare taking the untreated shrooms with the substance along with it with taking the treated shrooms without taking the substance along with it. I hope that didn't confuse anybody. Oh here we go:

Shrooms w/o DXM in Substrate taken with DXM
Shrooms with DXM in Substrate w/o taken with DXM

Basically, if the Shrooms do contain DXM after treating them then they should be somewhat similar to taking untreated shrooms along with DXM. Both should be compared to taking untreated Shrooms alone. And with Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines, maybe their structures are altered by the process since they contain the indole structure they also maybe metabolized by the mushroom and converted to 4-HO-DMT. So both Tryptamine HCL comparison and the above explained comparison may have to be done. Try to keep a scientific aspect of it, dosages and everything would be great. But, of course, any report is good, no matter how scientific it was made. Also, remember Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines are both MAOI's and Dietary restrictions apply, foods containing tyramine could be harmful or just contribute to nausea.

All contributions are welcome.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90444 - 11/13/99 12:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Cool experiment, once I have my agar/rye tek down I will try incorporating Salvia, Phalaris (DMT), and Trichocereus species (mescaline) into the casing substrate, considering I already grow all of them. Maybe I'll blend everything together to try and make a "super-mushroom." :wink:


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90445 - 11/13/99 02:18 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well with Salvia and DMT your method of ingestion may be better off changed. Maybe drying and grinding the mushrooms up and smoking it, and you may or may not use a medium, e.g. marijuana. I dunno if you've tried this already or not with regular untreated mushrooms first. I suggest you start with DMT then move to Salvia and on to San Pedro or whatever.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90446 - 11/13/99 05:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm, if slightly heating up shrooms in the drying process can lower their potency, wouldn't smoking them completely destroy the psy-chemicals? I've heard that smoking shrooms is utterly useless, have you tried it with good results? I am not a chemistry major but wouldn't the DMT/Salvinorin be assimilated by the mushroom into a new compound, possibly one that needn't be smoked? Just a thought.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90447 - 11/13/99 06:42 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well DMT will be converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), and some DMT will probably be still in the shroom which would be inactive orally. And I don't believe Salvinorin A would be effected by the shroom but it might and I doubt that it'll be active orally. Salvinorin A is not absorbed the same way as shrooms. The only way to take it by mouth is to hold it in your mouth and suck on it, basically. Unless you want to suck on a shroom I suggest smoking it. I believe that the potency is decreased by the SLOW heating process but something as quick as burning it in a bowl of a bong is not going to pyrolyze all of the 4-HO-DMT. Of course you can try the oral method and see what you get but I doubt you get what you expected. Try both ways. There may be a pleasant surprise somewhere to be found.

Ok, now this is just a general post to anyone who is interested. I've created another thread on Lycaeum's main forums:

Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors! at http://forums.lycaeum.org in the Chemical Allies section.


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 18, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90448 - 11/13/99 08:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I have found some other threads on The Hive BB that looks interesting:

Biosynthesis of alkaloids: metabolic pathways http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001331.html

homogentisate -> 2C-H http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001354.html

Alternative Doping with DMSO http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/002617.html

Genetic THC Synthesis? http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000327.html

Shikimate Precursors to Hallucinogens http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000500.html

Methcathinone via rotten beef http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000534.html

FMAN is talking about beetle-shit? Help me out Drone,..... http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000623.html

Biosynthesis of 1-(2,5-Dihydroxyphenyl)propan-2-ol http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000624.html

Biosynth. of benzodiazepines...help http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000642.html

Methylamine from yer friendly Arthrobacter synephrinum http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000600.html

On DMT World:

Biosynthesis of 4-OH tryptamines http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000159.html

Enzymatic Decarboxylation http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000177.html

Transition States http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000188.html

Some of these will require you to know a little about tissue cultures, for more info go to:

Kitchen Culture Kit Home Page http://www.home.turbonet.com/kitchenculture/

I was told not to buy their product. I just figured that these might be of interest to anyone who is really considering this.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90449 - 11/16/99 01:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well, I've just received some interesting information that may be very helpful when it comes to this topic. J Potter replied to my post on The Lycaeum Chemical Allies Forum about the "Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors!" Well this is what he had to say:
When grown in liquid cultures, psilocybe cubensis do not produce psilocin or psilocybin. If this is because of a lack of precursers, then it would be possible to add a precurser (ie DET, etc.) to the liquid culture and have the mushroom produce only the desired Tryptamine. No need for a complicated extraction from the psilocin/cybin usually produced.

However, if the nature of the liquid culture actually inhibits the mushroom's metabolism, then this will not work. I have a ref. on this subject, but I have not as of yet looked it up.

-Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964

Laters, PsiliPharm

[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 16, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90450 - 11/16/99 06:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I found some good article sources that help explain this process a little more:

TITLE: Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe.
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institut fur Biotechnologie der AdW, Leipzig.
SOURCE: J Basic Microbiol 1989;29(6):347-52
CITATION IDS: PMID: 2614674 UI: 90133446
ABSTRACT: Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis capable of forming psilocybin and psilocin de novo display a high capacity for hydroxylation of tryptamine derivatives at the 4-position. A specific biotransformation of added synthetic N,N-diethyl-tryptamine was found. Thus high amounts of 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (up to 3.3%) and a minor quantity of 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (0.01-0.8%) were isolated from fruiting bodies of Psilocybe cubensis in corresponding experiments. This is the first example of a directed biosynthesis of tryptamine substances by fungi. An effective biotransformation of N- methyltryptamine was also demonstrated with surface cultures of Psilocybe semilanceata. Baeocystin, a possible natural precursor of psilocybin, was detected and quantified in the biomasses. No alkaloids could be found in the culture medium.

TITLE: Baeocystin in psilocybe, conocybe and paraeolus.
AUTHORS: Repke DB; Leslie DT; Guzman G
SOURCE: Lloydia 1977 Nov-Dec;40(6):566-78
CITATION IDS: PMID: 600026 UI: 78091381
ABSTRACT: Sixty collections of ten species referred to three families of the Agaricales have been analyzed for the presence of baeocystin by thin- layer chromatography. Baeocystin was detected in collections of Psilocybe, Conocybe, and Panaeolus from the U.S.A., Canada, Mexico, and Peru. Laboratory cultivated fruitbodies of Psilocybe cubensis, P. semilanceata, and P. cyanescens were also studied. Intra-species variation in the presence of decay rate of baeocystin, psilocybin and psilocin are discussed in terms of age and storage factors. In addition, evidence is presented to support the presence of 4- hydroxytryptamine in collections of P. baeocystis and P. cyanescens. The possible significance of baeocystin and 4-hydroxytryptamine in the biosynthesis of psilocybin in these organisms is discussed.

TITLE: The relationship of carbon and nitrogen nutrition of Psilocybe baeocystis to the production of psilocybin and its analogs.
AUTHORS: Leung AY; Paul AG
SOURCE: Lloydia 1969 Mar;32(1):66-71
CITATION IDS: PMID: 5788770 UI: 69215710

TITLE: Biosynthesis of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis. 1. Incorporation of labelled tryptophan and tryptamine.
AUTHORS: Agurell S; Blomkvist S; Catalfomo P
SOURCE: Acta Pharm Suec 1966 Feb;3(1):37-44
CITATION IDS: PMID: 5948634 UI: 66109277

TITLE: The fine structure of Psilocybe quebecensis.
SOURCE: Mycopathol Mycol Appl 1973 Apr 30;49(4):321-38
CITATION IDS: PMID: 4122667 UI: 73189597


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90451 - 11/19/99 04:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

This is from:

-Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964

Which I mentioned before, I figured it would be useful for anyone interested.

Pellets of Psilocybe cubensis produced in medium no. 1 [ammonium succinate (1 g), Glycine (9 g), Glucose (5 g), yeast extract (.5 g), KH2PO4 (.1 g), thiamine hydrochloride (.003 g), (NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O (.05 mg), ZnSO4-7H2O (.3 mg), MnCl2-4H2O (.35 mg), FeSO4-7H2O (2.5 mg), CuSO4-5H2O (0.5 mg), MgSO4-7H2O (0.5 g), distilled water, to make (1.0 L), adjust to pH 5.5 with hydrochloric acid] accumulated psilocybin but not psilocin. Maximum production of the former compound occurred on the seventh day (0.52 per cent, dry weight of mycelium), whereas growth attained its maximum (average 112.6 mg, dry weight of mycelium per 30 mL of medium in a 125 mL flask) on the ninth day.
Maximum yields of both psilocybin and mycelium occurred in the acid pH range (4.0-4.6). However, the acidid nature of the mycelium does not preclude the possibility that thte internal pH of the organism is maintained at a different level by an efficient buffering system. Failure to find psilocybin in the medium may be attributed to its instability in the vigorously agitated acid medium, although permability factors are probably also involved.
In the absence of a readily assimilable carbon source (glucose), detectable amounts of psilocybin did not accumulate. Omission of ammonium succinate did not significantly alter the pH of the medium but it did lower psilocybin yields. Without yeast extract, mycelial production was retarded at five days, and culture liquors remained acidic through the eleventh day. Adaption and/or synthesis of necessary precursors nevertheless permitted a continued increase in growth which was accompanied by a rapid increase inthe yield of psilocybin by the seventh day. Similar results were obtained for media from which both yeast extract and thiamine had been omitted, except psilocybin levels remained lower.
According to Cochrane (5) most fungi have an absolute requirement for thiamine; however, where low levels are needed, synthesis takes place after initiation of growth. Under conditions of thiamine deficiency, glucose utilization is impaired, which may account for initial inhibition of growth when yeast extract or that ingredient and thiamine were omitted from the medium. Although glycine constituted more than one-half of the total weight of the dissolved solids in medium no. 1, the organism grew and metabolized efficiently in its absence.
The influence of different concentrations of glucose, ammonium succinate, and potassium acid phosphate in medium no. 1 was noted. A low level of glucose was associated with a rapid rise in exracellular pH, and lower levels of product accumulated. Doubling the normal amount of carbohydrate promoted psilocybin accumulation which reached a level of 1.02 percent (dry weight) by the seventh day. After eleven days, this level dropped to 0.15 percent; a similar sudden decline in psilocybin content was also noted in those flasks containing a reduced phosphate concentration. The significance of the low pH levels after eleven days is unknown. In contrast, levels of ammonium succinate which were one-half or twice that of the normal medium had no significant effect upon pH or psilocybin production.
Extracellular tryptophan added to replacement flasks did not enhance psilocybin production, but, instead, underwent degradative reactions of the type reported to occur in Neurospora and other fungi (5). This conclusion is based on the observation that a progressive increase in kynurenine, a catabolic product of tryptophan metabolism, paralleled the disappearance of tryptophan. These results are not necessarily contradictory to those obtained by Brack, et al. (2) since they used a different organism and different experimental design which preclude a direct comparison. However, our results do establish the existance of a direct relationship between psilocybin production and mycelial growth. Utilization of th replacement culture technique served to separate growth and psilocybin production, whereas the method of Brack, et al., did not afford this distinction. It was concluded that psilocybin production is so intimately related to mycelial proliferation that the nutrient-deficient replacement medium was of little value inthe study of psilocybin biosynthesis. However, the technique had previously proven satisfactory for biosynthetic studies of other indole derivatives in fungi (3).
Increasing the scale of fermentation from 30 mL of medium in 125-mL flasks to 300 mL in 2800-mL flasks markedly affected psilocybin production. Significatn differences in yields did not appear until after the seventh day when accumulation of product ceased, and a more rapid decline occurred in the large flasks as the pellets became physiologically older. Although the cause of this phenomenon was not established, it way be attributed, at least in part, to differences in teh efficiency of aeration of the cultures.

I also thought I might add that using Loofa in the substrate in this experiment might be a good idea in order to get the shroom to soak up more of the percursors. Here is a good discussion on that:


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 14, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90452 - 11/19/99 04:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90453 - 11/20/99 10:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Your question is going to have to be more specific than just WHAT?!?!

I don't know what to say to that!


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90454 - 11/21/99 03:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)




DreaderThanDread - Listen!
(druqs said) don't get arsey, just get RC.

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90455 - 12/05/99 05:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I bet you thought this thread was dead, well it's not! I've got more information to share! This all comes from:

Mack, J.P.G. and Slaytor, M. (1979), Indolethylamine N-Methyltransferases of Phalaris tuberosa, Purification and Properties. Phytochem, 18, 1921.

"The specificities of the amine substrates to accept methyl groups using the step 3 preparation are listed in Table 5. 5-Methyltryptamine and 5-MeOT are methylated at the same rate as T. Other substituents in the indole nucleus cause methylation to proceed at a lower rate, e.g. 6-methoxytryptamine is methylated at 30% of the rate at which tryptamine is methylated. MT and 5-MeOMT are methylated at ca 2.5 times the tryptamine rate, reflecting the higher levels of SIM activity compared to PIM in the preparation. Phenylethylamines are methylated at a lower rate than the tryptamines. The ratio of activity towards N-methylphenylethylamine and phenylethylamine is 3:1, about the same as that found for the corresponding tryptamine substrates. Thus it seems that both PIM and SIM have the ability to accept a benzene ring instead of the normal indole nucleus. Substitution of the phenyl ring by bulky methoxy groups does not change the ability to methylate these compounds. The methoxy groups would occupy the space normally occupied by the benzene ring of the indole nucleus,and thus they offer no steric hindrance for binding to PIM. None of the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines, the ring closed analogues of the tryptamines were methylated, i.e. the ethylamine side chain must be in a position othe than that found in the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines. Consistent with this is the fact that the tetrahydroisoquinolines were also not methylated. The rate of methylation of histamine,w hich is much less hydrophobic than phenylethylamine, although having a similar charge at pH 8.5 and being only slightly smaller, was 100 times less.
The 5-hydroxyindole derivatives seem to be as good substrates as the unsubstituted or 5-methoxy derivatives, allowing for the lower solubility of the product in the extracting toluene. Since 5-OHDMT is produced inthe plant [1], it seems most likely that 5-OHT and 5-OHMT are normal substrates of PIM and SIM. A similar conclusion is reached from trapping experiements with whole plants [2].
The specificity of the SAM site was tested using homocysteine and adenosine as inhibitors in the normal assay. There was not inhibition of PIM or SIM activity by adenosine (1 mM) or homocysteine (1mM)."

Also given was a chart, here:

T=Tryptamine and P=Phenethylamine
These were given in percentages.

T - 100
NMT - 260
5-MeOT - 88
5-MeONMT - 220
6-MeOT - 31
6-MT - 76
6-OHT - 24
P - 10
NMP - 30
4-OHP - 1.2
3,4-DiOHP - 0.2
3-OH-4MeOP - 8.1
3,4-DiMeOP - 13
3-OH-4,5-DiMeOP - 3.1
Tetrahydroharman - 0.12
1-Me-6-OHtetrahydro-beta-carboline - 0.38
1-Me-6-MeOtetrahydro-beta-carboline - 0.31
6,7-DiMeO-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline - 0.59
1-Me-6-OH-7-MeO-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline - 0.93
Salsoline - 2.3
Anhalonidine - 0.90
Histamine - <0.12
Ethylamine - 0.31
Diethylamine - 0.19
Piperidine - <0.12
Tetrahydropyrrole - 0.12

The highest activity that they state as being inactive is 0.93% which doesn't make 4-OHP very active if at all.

Basically, what all this means is that one may be able to make some new phenethylamines with this enzyme which is present in Psilocybe shrooms. Although, Dimethylphenethylamines aren't that active not all of the phenethylamines will be dimethylated, some will be partially methylated producing N-methylphenethylamines. The only good use of this information that I can think of right now is that one may be able to produce N,N-Dimethylcathinone and N-methylcathinone with this enzyme. Well, if the hydroxylation enzyme works on phenethylamines then the possible products of adding cathinone to the substrate would be 6-HO-DiMeCAT and 6-HO-N-MeCAT and the phosphate esters of both of these. The reason I said that cathinone is a better phenethylamine-like substance to use is because N,N-dimethylcathinone is only 1.6-fold less potent than N-methylcathinone whereas N,N-dimethylamphetamine is 7-fold less potent than N-methylamphetamine. I did not receive all of this information myself. The reference and excerpt given above was e-mailed to me from Teonanacatl on DMT World. Here is his website which has some extraction and biosynthetic information on it: www.indole.org He also started a new thread on DMT World about this, here:

INMP - Resurrection of 4-hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Youjustsu)

Something else that he had mentioned in his e-mail was that he believed that all N-methyltransferases required SAM which I asked whether or not one might be able to spead up the conversion process by providing SAM in the substrate? That question is still unanswered.


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Posts: 383
Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90456 - 12/06/99 07:36 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I am speachless...I am impressed...I am jealous...I should have learned more chemistry in school, dam I don`t understand the half, but if you can explain simply what you have done to create better shroomz, please keep posting
I will do my homework
but I am not sure if I want my shroomz to more potent, but maybe they should work longer and with a stronger up high...

you are the first one to deserve the title "ultra-mad scientist"

I am still impressed

i'm back

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90457 - 12/06/99 09:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well that is exactly why I've provided all the links...most of the information can be found through those links. You can do one of many things to either potentiate, raise, or alter the chemicals contents of the shrooms with these methods described above. The thing that I'm interested in the most is altering the chemical contents of the shrooms to provide an altered trip. Something new! I'm not the first person to think of this. But I am one of the first people to elaborate on how this may be used and provide theories of where this might lead to. If one knows the metabolic pathway then one may be able to alter the chemical that is produced by providing an altered percursor. There was something I wanted to add to this thread but I forgot what it was. Oh well, it'll come to me, later. Thanks for the compliments and do your research. Tis not that hard, especially if a high school student can do it.


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