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Anonymous |
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Here, I would like to point out this thread even that most people have already seen it:
The reason I decided to add it is because I wanted to say how it could relate to this thread. If cayenne peppers really do boost potency some way then they would raise the level of alkaloids produced in these experiments and theories outlined above. Please, anybody, if you attempt any of the ideas above then please post your findings. Oh I just remembered what I was going to add to this thread. In the Tryptamine FAQ, 5- and 6-fluorotryptophans were listed as being potentially psychedelic. Since tryptophan is cheaper and less likely to be watched then you might be able to convert it to one of the previous compounds and then introducing it to the mushroom. The Tryptophan Decarboxylase enzyme will turn it into 5- or 6-fluorotryptamine and then on to 4-HO-5-F-DMT or 4-HO-6-F-DMT. That is if the other enzymes will accept those compounds, the 5-fluorotryptophan may be a problem with the 4-hydroxylation enzyme since it is so close to that position, but that is only a theory which I hope to be disproven. I suggest 7-fluorotryptophan to produce 4-HO-7-F-DMT, but since 5-MeO-7-F-DMT is less potent than 5-MeO-DMT then it might also be less potent but then again it could be more interesting. Less potent isn't always bad, new effects and experiences are sometimes present. One more thing, I think that this experiment should be done with my Genetically Mutated Mushrooms which could be applied Psilocybe Cubensis or any Other Tryptamine-carrying Shrooms. Many interesting species' and strains can be obtained from:
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 06, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I found the names of the enzymes responsible for the production of Psilocybin in this paper which is a very interesting paper:
"Attempted Molecular Cloning of Enzymes from the Psilocybin Biosynthesis Pathway in Psilocybe tampanensis" http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/gregory/1042/index.html This diploma thesis gives many references on psilocybin biosynthesis, psilocybin detection, mushroom culturing, and molecular biology methods. This was found in the post Psilocybin biosynthesis by Lilienthal. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I was just looking for various subsituted tryptamines and tryptophans on www.chemacx.com for use in shrooms and other tryptamine-producing organisms or even for synthesis. I left out Tryptamine, Tryptophan, and their 5-Hydroxy and N-Acetyl analogs with a few exceptions. I'm sure, by now, you are able to figure out what the products of these chemicals used in such an experiment as the one discussed above. Also, all prices are discounted through an account with www.chemacx.com. So these prices are slightly lower than what one would pay without an account with www.chemacx.com. Here is the list:
7-Methyl-tryptamine
TCI
ICN Biomedical Research Products
INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc. ICN Biomedical Research Products
INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc. Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
ICN Biomedical Research Products
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 Dan newbie Registered: 05/11/01 Posts: 187 Last seen: 24 years, 10 months |
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PsiliPharm, was there a question in all of this or were you simply advertising for as many pharmacutical companies as you possibly could? Really though, I understand your ideas, but it comes to a point when you have to ask yourself, if you have all of this knowedge of chemistry, then why not just synthesize psilocybin, and try out new drug cocktails? What does any one of these chemicals have anything to do with mushroom cultivation, and how could these chemicals help anyone on this board? I don't really know why I am asking you this, but probably it is due to the fact that of the 24 repies to this topic previous to my own, 17 of those were from you. Basically, what I am asking you is, why are you posting this stuff? Everyone and anyone can find this stuff out very easily with any search engine, and most of the people on this board probably dont understand 10% of what you are saying.
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 Prellgott addict Registered: 02/08/00 Posts: 383 |
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go on Psilli I anm saving it on my harddisk and someday I`ll try it...
to Dan this place was known as THE EYPERIMENTATION STATION and I love this thread go on Psilli
-------------------- i'm back
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Sclorch Clyster   Registered: 07/12/99 Posts: 4,805 Loc: On the Brink of |
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Psilipharm- I don't think it would be wise to ingest a tryptamine halide. Chlorine, flourine, bromine... these are NOT chemicals that I would want in my body. Another point, regurgitation usually implies a lack of knowledge. Not all this shit you're spewing out is good. Let me put it this way: TRYPTAMINES=GOOD PHENYLETHYLAMINES=BAD. Another thing, if you're going to list a chemical, use the proper notations. For example, SO4 is not the same as SO4. That said, DIPT is probably one of the stronger additives you can put in the substrate. Although it can be expensive, it is MUCH stronger than DMT-based chemicals (i.e. psilocybin, psilocin, etc...) I'm spent. ------------------
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous |
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Ok, the entire basis of this is to produce NEW drugs and NEW experiences. True, I've gotten away from the original topic a little bit. Originally, I was posting this because I heard that the shrooms would retain the drugs provided in the substrate and therefore the trip would be altered because the shrooms will contain more compounds such as harmaline if it was provided in the substrate. Some say that it would be broken down into something that the shroom can use and some say that it would remain in the mushroom. Well whenever I found out that the actual chemical structure of the compound provided may be altered by the enzymes in the mushroom. That is when I posted all of the chemicals above and their prices, they are available and they may be used to produce new Psilocin/Psilocybin analogs. I'M NOT ADVERTISING FOR ANYONE! Just providing sources, to make the lives of everyone who is thinking about attempting this experiment easier. To give you an example on how one of the above chemicals may be used, 6-Fluoro-tryptamine could be used in the substrate/growing media of the shrooms to produce 6-Fluoro-Psilocin/Psilocybin also known as 4-HO-6-F-DMT. 6-F-AMT was pointed out to be potentially psychedelic and 5-F-AMT is a MAOI with antidepressent-like effects. I would like to point out that halogenated tryptamines/tryptophans are highly poisonous. As described here:
http://www.mysteriousuniverse.com/news/bio801.html The product may not be but you don't know what amount of it wasn't converted. So when dealing with these compounds, one may need to do some sort of chromatography method to detect and separate the different compounds. As described in the link above, mutations are also likely to occur with these compounds or any compound for that matter. The shrooms are forced to react to the conditions that surround them, some shrooms may not grow as well with these chemicals, but they are likely to adapt. Also, personally I like tryptamines better than phenethylamines but since phenethylamines are liked by many people and since they can be effected by the enzymes in Psilocybe mushrooms, I figured I should mention the possibilities. Another thing, I copied and pasted that excerpt from the article about the submerged culture which lacked subscripts in the molecular formulas. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like going back and typing the html code required. For the most part, it is the same. Plus, anyone who knows anything about chemistry would be able to read that for what it is. Ok, one more thing. DIPT is actually not that good of a substance by itself but 4-HO-DIPT and 5-MeO-DIPT are! Which 4-HO-DIPT is what I'm trying to achieve using shrooms as the medium for hydroxylation at the 4-position. Now that is said, I have one more thing to say: READ THIS THREAD AS IF IT WAS A BOOK, BEGINNING TO END! Also, CHECK OUT THE LINKS TO OTHER SITES AND THREADS because they help explain this a little easier and have different examples. Only the basics are repeated and most are taylored for the specific bulletin board. I'm going to re-state the NEW purpose of this thread: The purpose is to make NEW compounds, not OLD ones such as DMT, DPT, AMT, DIPT, Psilocin/Psilocybin, etc. Keeping that in mind, there is some uncertainty involved in producing these NEW compounds since many of them have never been synthesized, let alone experimented on a living thing. One should be capable of identifying the compounds produced and possibly isolate them from the other compounds. The truth is that the biosynthesis process makes this easy for anyone who's capable of growing mushrooms and handling the chemicals involved. Be safe, make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. Ok, I would like to comment on something Dan said. Why would I want to synthesize Psilocin/Psilocybin when shrooms do all the work for me? That is the entire point of this thread, biosynthesis is easier than chemical synthesis and cheaper too. -Youjutsu
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Anonymous |
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Ok, I'm curious does anyone have a synthesis for 4,5-methylenedioxy-tryptamine? It may be interesting to introduce it into shrooms to see if the 4,5-methylenedioxy will remain intact and produce 4,5-methylenedioxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine!
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I thought I might post some links to some interesting mushroom growing and tissue culture sites:
Growing Mushrooms With Hydrogen Peroxide Plant Tissue Culture for Home Gardeners Plant Cell, Tissue and Organ Culture - An International Journal on the Cell Biology of Higher Plants Plant Tissue Culture Research at the University of Minnesota The International Association For Plant Tissue Culture (IAPTC) Of course, there are many more sources and I may provide them later. This is just some places to start looking. DOGPILE is a good multi-engine search engine that I use quite often to find some of my links. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Ok, there seems to be many people on here using 5-hydroxy-tryptophan (5-HTP) in their substrates. Well this made me curious as to what the actual product of this is. Well the Tryptophan Decarboxylase will obviously convert it to 5-hydroxy-tryptamine (5-HT) and the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) N-methyltransferase will convert that into 5-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine and 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Bufotenine). Now, there is some controversy over whether the 5-hydroxy stays or goes and whether the 4-hydroxy is attatched while the 5-hydroxy is attatched producing 4,5-dihydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine because of the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) 4-Monooxygenase. Another questionable step is with the enzyme which creates the phosphate ester of 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) which is called Psilocybin. The enzyme is called Psilocin-O-phosphotransferase but I think it should be called 4-hydroxytryptamine-O-phosphotransferase or something like that since many 4-hydroxy-T's will be altered by this enzyme. The question is whether or not it might confuse 5-HO-DMT (Bufotenine) as being 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) and produce the phosphate ester of it and if 4,5-DiHO-DMT is the most abundant product then does it do the same to both positions or just one and which one? Someone needs to identify the products of 5-substituted-T's in the substrate since the position is so close to the 4-position, the enzymes may get confused or have trouble working around it.
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Yes, you're making the shrooms more potent or atleast significantly altering the trip by producing new chemicals. Potency isn't a very good measure of the quality of a trip. For example, the pyr-T's talked about in TIHKAL are more potent than DMT but are definitely not more fun. The idea is to find something more fun than Psilocin/Psilocybin or just something that is different and interesting. For example, AMT may produce the Alpha-Methyl analog of Psilocin/Psilocybin (4-HO-AMDMT) which will probably be more potent or just longer lasting. I've given several sources for evidence of this probability. It basically depends on what "nutrients" you're thinking about using.
-PsiliPharm
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TriGuy Skeptic  Registered: 08/27/99 Posts: 105 Loc: Georgia Last seen: 24 years, 1 month |
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Wow, a very academic discussion. Sort of a PsiliPharm research paper.. very valuable.. . thanks... but the question remains: if I put some of these "nutrients" into my substrate or mycelium culture, will it ultimately actually increase the potency of the mature mushroom? Does anybody have experimental evidence of that?
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Anonymous |
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Ok, I decided to re-post something from 5-HTM (Serotonin) that D'Gatz posted:
"In Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, approximately 22% of labeled tryptamine was incorporated into psilocybin. The addition of tryptamine hydrochloride to substrate increases yield of psilocybin in dried mushrooms from 0.01-0.2% to 3.3%. (Gartz 1989) (Stamets 1996). The rest of the entry just goes on to describe how to fruit; casing, etc. Anyway, the reference to Gartz is: Gartz, J.; Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis; Planta Medica (1989) 55: 249-250 Of course, I would like to make some possible corrections and ask some questions that some people may need to think about. First off, I think the 3.3% is actually Psilocin not Psilocybin but Psilocybin is probably also increased. In fact, about 0.01%-0.8% of Psilocybin is probably produced. The Psilocin/Psilocybin ratio should probably remain the same. Also, how many grams of tryptamine is 25 millimoles? I think it is 4g? And how many grams of shrooms will 10 grams of substrate produce? That way we know about how many grams of alkaloids is produced. The reason why this post and these questions are somewhat important to me is because mathmatically it would allow me to determine how much of these other additives to use and how much is produced. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I decided to post some articles I've found that might prove useful in many ways, such as, detection, analysis, storage, and various other procedures for further understanding and learning:
TITLE: Analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in Psilocybe subcubensis Guzman by ion mobility spectrometry and gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. TITLE: [The forensic chemical study of psilocybine-containing fungi] TITLE: Strategies for the capillary electrophoretic separation of indole alkaloids in Psilocybe semilanceata. TITLE: Presence of phenylethylamine in hallucinogenic Psilocybe mushroom: possible role in adverse reactions. TITLE: Determination of psilocybin in Psilocybe semilanceata by capillary zone electrophoresis. TITLE: An aqueous-organic extraction method for the isolation and identification of psilocin from hallucinogenic mushrooms. TITLE: Qualitative and quantitative determinations of hallucinogenic components of psilocybe mushrooms by reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography. TITLE: Variation of psilocybin and psilocin levels with repeated flushes (harvests) of mature sporocarps of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer. TITLE: Quantitative analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in psilocybe baeocystis (Singer and Smith) by high-performance liquid chromatography and by thin-layer chromatography. For storage of mushrooms, I suggest honey. It's been done that way since biblical times (manna?) and seems to work. Also, extraction of the alkaloids may be done using ethanol or methanol which is the choice of Gartz as shown here: http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/extract.psilocin Also, these are some things that should be taken into consideration in trying to preserve your mushrooms: http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/puerto/mushroom-preserve.html http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info5.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info6.shtml I'm just trying to provide ya with the best sources of information and if anyone has anything to add, do so. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I just made a very interesting post that may prove to be useful in the many biosynthesis experiments that were described previously in this thread. Here is that post:
5,000 Hz Frequencies To Boost Absorbtion and Growth! -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Maybe this is a stupid idea buuuuut: "lares" 5-HTP is 5-hydroxytryptophan and 5-HT (seratonin) is 5-hydroxytryptamine" ... I was wondering what putting a Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor (S.S.R.I.) like Prozac or Paxil into substrate or directly onto the pins or shrooms or what!!! Would this be worth a try or totally uninformed stupidity?
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Anonymous |
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Truthfully, I would have to say, "Uninformed Stupidity," but don't worry, not long ago I would have probably said the same thing or something similar. But then again, you never know what may happen. Doubtful, that anything will, the structures are too far different from each other. Tryptamine looks nothing like Fluoxetine (Prozac) and many similar structures are uneffected by the enzymes, what's to say that something as different as Prozac is going to be effected. The tag SSRI is due to how it acts on the receptors in your brain. Tryptamines are agonists and SSRI's are antagonists, so to speak. They're almost like complete opposites. SSRI's will cause trips to be less profound and not so great but it'll possibly prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA (Ecstasy) and other similar phenethylamines that have neurotoxic effects on the Serotonin (5-HT) receptors. It'll also hinder the good effects of MDMA, if taken on a regular basis before the MDMA trip. So I imagine taking an SSRI after a MDMA trip along with some 5-HTP. I'm still learning Neuropharmacology, so I'm not exactly positive if this works, but alot of people have talked about it on Forums, BBs, and Newsgroups like this one for a while now. Also, one of the ways that helped me understand the differences in the structures of these compounds was through Chemfinder. Often if I didn't know what a substance looked like, I went here.
-PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]
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Curious G old hand Registered: 08/02/99 Posts: 528 Last seen: 24 years, 8 months |
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PsiliPharm, complete opposites? You're using the wrong terminology. Protagonist and antagonist, like hero and villian. 'agonist' has no meaning.
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Anonymous |
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Obviously, you don't know anything about neuropharmacology. I'm not going to pretend like I know everything, but I know this:
Antagonists: drugs that block or inhibit postsynaptic effects Here is the source: Also, now that I've read this site, I realize that a re-uptake inhibitor is actually an agonist. So I'm not sure if a SSRI will help prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA but it's still possible. -PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I've recently been informed that the 4-hydroxylation enzyme is not specific to what is on the ethylamine chain such as the alpha-methyl in AMT. Which, I was pretty sure of but not absolutely sure. So it is absolutely definite that 4-hydroxy-alpha,N,N-trimethyltryptamine (4-HO-TMT, 4-HO-AMDMT, Alpha-Methyl-Psilocin) will be produced if AMT is added to the substrate. Of course, the phosphorylation enzyme will make it a more stable compound. So would it be possible to increase the phosphorylation of the product by including some kind of phosphate into the substrate?
-PsiliPharm
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