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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90436 - 11/09/99 11:44 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, this could be used to the advantage of the Dissociative/Tryptamine Combination. Suppose you were to put a Dissociative such as DXM into the substrate creating a mushroom with a synergist combination. Check out the "Dissociatives and Tryptamines" topic for more info:


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 10, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90439 - 11/10/99 12:02 AM (24 years, 5 months ago)

I have made some similar but different posts like this one on two other BB's, DMT World and The Hive. Just in case you want to know what someone might have to say on those boards, I am including a link here:


-PsiliPharm, Youjutsu, and Nemesis

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90440 - 11/10/99 09:39 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Well it turns out that the 5-position may be too close to the 4-position to create 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT but you may be able to make 4-MeO-DMT with 4-MeO-Tryptamine in the substrate and you'll probably also end up with some partial methylation meaning 4-MeO-NMT may be present also. Other interesting compounds may be made with Mescaline-containing cactii with Dopamine analogs, check out The Hive BB above for more info.

Well, I've decided to provide you with some other threads on here talking about putting drugs into the substrate. Here they are:

5-HTP in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000383.html

Additives in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000359.html

Salvia in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000382.html

Get your shrooms HIGH? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000377.html

Adding Drugs to Substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000368.html

Vitamin C in substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000364.html

Ketamine to substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000376.html

Indole instead of Tryptamine http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000337.html

PssionFlower http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000312.html

Laters, Youjutsu

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rogue DMT elf
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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90441 - 11/10/99 09:47 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

dude, you are a crazy man. :wink:

"Who is John Galt?"

Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud



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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90442 - 11/12/99 02:13 AM (24 years, 5 months ago)

As most of you may know DMT is quickly converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) in shrooms alot quicker than Tryptamine and plus DMT is also fun by itself, combined with mushrooms, combined with beta-carbolines, or combined with both. Well for those of you who need to know of some good sources for these DMT and beta-carboline containing plants, here they are:

Timberwolf Gardens (Fly Agaric, HBWR, San Pedro, Yohimbe, etc.) http://members.home.net/alister/

The Basement Shaman (Salvia, Yage, Datura, Live Plants, Herbs, Spores) http://www.basementshaman.com/

Ho-Ti Nursery (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.ho-tinursery.com/

Native Habitat (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.nativehabitat.com/plants.html

Sage Wisdom Salvia Shop (SALVIA DIVINORUM!) http://salvia.lycaeum.org/salviashop.html

Logee's Greenhouse (Ethnobotanical Plants http://logees.com/www/default.html

Pure Land Ethnobotanicals (Seeds, Herbs, Extracts, 5-MeO-DMT) http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/

[TAC] Ethnobotanicals (Rare Seeds and Herbs) http://www.tacethno.com/

Marijuana Alternatives (Salvia and other Smoking Blends) http://www.herbsmoke.com/

Peruvian Journey (Seeds and Plants) http://www.peruvian-journey.com/

Homestead Book Company (Mushroom Kits and Books) http://www.homesteadbook.com/

Mushroom Magic (The name says it all!) http://mushroommagic.com/

Herbal-Shaman (Herbs, Extracts, Teas, & Smokes) http://www.herbal-shaman.com/

Xingu Dawn (Ethnobotanicals) http://www.ethnobotany.net/motif.htm

Psilocybe Fanaticus (Spores, Mushroom Info) http://www.fanaticus.com/

Smart Publications (Smart Drug Books) http://www.smart-publications.com/

Climax Online Smartshop (Peyote, Shrooms, Yohimbe, Herbs, etc.) http://www.climax.net/

El Mercurio (Spanish Entheogen Site) http://www.mercurialis.com/

Biogenesis Labratories (GHB Products) http://www.biogenesis.co.za/

Companion Plants (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.frognet.net/companion_plants/index.html

Lambo Seeds (Plants including Iboga) http://www.aros.net/~lambo/order/order.htm

Fungi Perfecti Online (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.fungi.com/

Mushroom People (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/mpmisc.html

Psilocybe Mushrooms (Psilocybe Mushroom Info & Spore Prints) http://www.stainblue.com/

Smart Botanicals (Mushroom Spores/Supplies, Herbs, Seeds, Etc.) http://www.smart.nl/

Gnostic Garden (Seeds, Plants, etc.) http://www.gnosticgarden.ndirect.co.uk/

Kava Kauai (Salvia and Kava Kava) http://www.kauaisource.com/

Theatrum Botanicum (Herbs, Ethnobotanicals & Entheogens) http://www.hepting.com/thebot/

Amazing Nature (Mushroom Spores, Herbs, Seeds, Cacti, Etc.) http://amazing-nature.com/

Legendary Ethnobotanical Resources (Herbs, Plants & Seeds) http://www.ethnobotany.com/

Shaman Australis Botanicals (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.shaman-australis.com/

Abbey Ethnobotanicals http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/shanti/index.html.htm

Elixier Entheobotanic (German) http://www.snafu.de/~elixier/

Alphaware NZ (Legal Highs Supplier) http://www.alphaware.co.nz/index.html

Conscious Dreams Website http://www.consciousdreams.com/

Bolder Exotics (Smoking Supplies, Etc.) http://www.bolderexotics.com/

Smart Bomb (Smart Drugs, Vitamins, Etc.) http://www.smartbomb.com/index.html

Life Enhancement (Supplements, 5HTP, Etc.) http://www.life-enhancement.com/

Natural Technologies (L-Tryptophan, Etc.) http://www.biochemicals.com/

DREAM MAKER (Japanese, AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-DIPT) http://www.dream-m.com/

JLF Catalog (Just about anything Entheogenic, THE BEST!) http://www.jlfcatalog.com
Some products include:
5-MeO-DMT, DPT, DIPT, 5-MeO-DIPT, Amanita Muscaria, Mushroom Spores, Kits, Pure Salvinorin A Powder, DMT-Containing Plants, Beta-Carboline Containing Plants, Ibogaine-Containing Plants, and Many More!

MBE Tech (AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, DPT, GHB, etc.) http://www.mbetech.net

This was added much later to the list but I figured it was worth mentioning, but I don't think anyone from here will be able to buy from them.

BIOSYNTH (Very Professional, Tryptamines, Beta-Carbolines, Etc.) http://www.biosynth.com

Another List of Vendor Resources with Reviews:

Also for more reading and a list of plants containing DMT/Beta-Carbolines:

And if you don't know about a certain species that a vendor offers, just search for it on a search engine along with key words like "hallucinogen" or "psychedelic" or "drug". One good multi-search engine is http://www.dogpile.com and there are others. Always know as much as you can about a plant before experimenting with it.

For information on specific tryptamines and their effects which includes DMT, DIPT, DPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), 5-MeO-DIPT, Ibogaine, Beta-Carbolines, ETC.:

TIHKAL - Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml

Also, for further reference on Phenethylamines:

PIHKAL - Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved

Laters, PsiliPharm

[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90443 - 11/12/99 03:30 AM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, I've come up with an experiment that I would like some people with good knowledge of tryptamines and growing mushrooms.

A Comparison of Additives to Substrate and How They Effect The Trip


Tryptamine HCL (JLF Catalog)
5-HTP (Life Enhancement)
DMT (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
DIPT (JLF Catalog)
DPT (JLF Catalog, MBE Tech)
AMT (MBE Tech)
4-MeO-Tryptamine (Please Specify Source)
5-MeO-DMT (JLF Catalog, Pure Land Ethnobotanicals, MBE Tech)
5-MeO-DIPT (JLF Catalog, MBE Tech)
Beta-Carbolines (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
Ibogaine (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
LSA (May Be Obtained from Organic Sources)
DXM (JLF), Ketamine, PCP (Any NMDA-blocker)
Phenethylamines (Please Specify Source)
Salvia Divinorum (Sage Wisdom Salvia Shop)
Marijuana (Local Dealer)
Amanita Muscaria (JLF Catalog)
If any other drug is used please let me know.

Of the chemicals listed above, the ones that are of the most immediate interest are:

AMT - May Produce 4-HO-AMDMT! (Never Been Produced!)
DIPT - Will Produce 4-HO-DIPT! (Quite Fast Acting Drug, Very Interesting!)
DPT - Will Produce 4-HO-DPT! (Not Ventured in Man!)
4-MeO-Tryptamine - May Produce 4-MeO-DMT!
5-MeO-DMT - May Produce 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT?

In order to truely get a clear picture of how the trip is enhanced one must have experience with shrooms enhanced with Tryptamine HCL or DMT and make a comparison on how the trip is altered. Reason: To make sure that the drug inputed into the substrate isn't just being converted into 4-HO-DMT instead of transformed into a new drug. Same strains, methods of growing and ingestion must be compared. If taken in combination with another drug, please specify what. But in order to get a sound comparison, the fewer outside influences the better. If one thing is done for one trip, the same must be done for the other. So that way if the trip is significantly altered then the precense of another drug must be the case. I would read the entries for the above input and output products in TIHKAL:

If you haven't already enhanced shrooms with Tryptamine HCL, then start with that. Then move to something else. DIPT is the most likely canidate for this project because by itself it is ok but when converted to 4-HO-DIPT it becomes GREAT! and it's speed of action will probably be noticed alot easier. Something that has to go into consideration is how much is actually being used by each shroom. Suppose you want 20mg of 4-OH-DIPT per shroom and there are 5 shrooms per cake. (I am just guessing here.) Would 100mg DIPT get you the 20mg a piece or not? Probably not, so take that into consideration, but 100mg DIPT may be a good starting point. The thing that I'm worried about is whether or not you have to use the same amount of Tryptamine as you would DIPT to be an accurate comparison. If you choose to use DPT which is pretty good by itself and easier to obtain I would suggest to expect the same 20mg per shroom as a starting point. Personally, I think AMT is the grand daddy of them all but less predictable. 5-MeO-DMT may not work due to the 5-MeO being too close. Also, any 6 or 7 substituted tryptamines may work such as 6-fluoro-tryptamine (may be psychedelic by itself!) to produce something like 4-HO-6-F-DMT. If anyone knows of any good starting materials especially alpha, beta, 2, 4, 6, 7, and N-substituted material that may be interesting to use and have a source for it. Please post a message. If anyone decides to attempt this and would like to e-mail me instead of posting the report, check out my profile above for my e-mail address and my ICQ #.

Also, if anything is used other than a simple tryptamine such as Beta-carbolines, Ibogaine, DXM, or anything else, try and compare taking the untreated shrooms with the substance along with it with taking the treated shrooms without taking the substance along with it. I hope that didn't confuse anybody. Oh here we go:

Shrooms w/o DXM in Substrate taken with DXM
Shrooms with DXM in Substrate w/o taken with DXM

Basically, if the Shrooms do contain DXM after treating them then they should be somewhat similar to taking untreated shrooms along with DXM. Both should be compared to taking untreated Shrooms alone. And with Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines, maybe their structures are altered by the process since they contain the indole structure they also maybe metabolized by the mushroom and converted to 4-HO-DMT. So both Tryptamine HCL comparison and the above explained comparison may have to be done. Try to keep a scientific aspect of it, dosages and everything would be great. But, of course, any report is good, no matter how scientific it was made. Also, remember Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines are both MAOI's and Dietary restrictions apply, foods containing tyramine could be harmful or just contribute to nausea.

All contributions are welcome.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90444 - 11/13/99 10:52 AM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Cool experiment, once I have my agar/rye tek down I will try incorporating Salvia, Phalaris (DMT), and Trichocereus species (mescaline) into the casing substrate, considering I already grow all of them. Maybe I'll blend everything together to try and make a "super-mushroom." :wink:


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90445 - 11/13/99 12:18 AM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Well with Salvia and DMT your method of ingestion may be better off changed. Maybe drying and grinding the mushrooms up and smoking it, and you may or may not use a medium, e.g. marijuana. I dunno if you've tried this already or not with regular untreated mushrooms first. I suggest you start with DMT then move to Salvia and on to San Pedro or whatever.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90446 - 11/13/99 03:25 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm, if slightly heating up shrooms in the drying process can lower their potency, wouldn't smoking them completely destroy the psy-chemicals? I've heard that smoking shrooms is utterly useless, have you tried it with good results? I am not a chemistry major but wouldn't the DMT/Salvinorin be assimilated by the mushroom into a new compound, possibly one that needn't be smoked? Just a thought.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90447 - 11/13/99 04:42 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Well DMT will be converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), and some DMT will probably be still in the shroom which would be inactive orally. And I don't believe Salvinorin A would be effected by the shroom but it might and I doubt that it'll be active orally. Salvinorin A is not absorbed the same way as shrooms. The only way to take it by mouth is to hold it in your mouth and suck on it, basically. Unless you want to suck on a shroom I suggest smoking it. I believe that the potency is decreased by the SLOW heating process but something as quick as burning it in a bowl of a bong is not going to pyrolyze all of the 4-HO-DMT. Of course you can try the oral method and see what you get but I doubt you get what you expected. Try both ways. There may be a pleasant surprise somewhere to be found.

Ok, now this is just a general post to anyone who is interested. I've created another thread on Lycaeum's main forums:

Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors! at http://forums.lycaeum.org in the Chemical Allies section.


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 18, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90448 - 11/13/99 06:23 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

I have found some other threads on The Hive BB that looks interesting:

Biosynthesis of alkaloids: metabolic pathways http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001331.html

homogentisate -> 2C-H http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001354.html

Alternative Doping with DMSO http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/002617.html

Genetic THC Synthesis? http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000327.html

Shikimate Precursors to Hallucinogens http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000500.html

Methcathinone via rotten beef http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000534.html

FMAN is talking about beetle-shit? Help me out Drone,..... http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000623.html

Biosynthesis of 1-(2,5-Dihydroxyphenyl)propan-2-ol http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000624.html

Biosynth. of benzodiazepines...help http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000642.html

Methylamine from yer friendly Arthrobacter synephrinum http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000600.html

On DMT World:

Biosynthesis of 4-OH tryptamines http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000159.html

Enzymatic Decarboxylation http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000177.html

Transition States http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000188.html

Some of these will require you to know a little about tissue cultures, for more info go to:

Kitchen Culture Kit Home Page http://www.home.turbonet.com/kitchenculture/

I was told not to buy their product. I just figured that these might be of interest to anyone who is really considering this.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90449 - 11/15/99 11:10 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I've just received some interesting information that may be very helpful when it comes to this topic. J Potter replied to my post on The Lycaeum Chemical Allies Forum about the "Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors!" Well this is what he had to say:
When grown in liquid cultures, psilocybe cubensis do not produce psilocin or psilocybin. If this is because of a lack of precursers, then it would be possible to add a precurser (ie DET, etc.) to the liquid culture and have the mushroom produce only the desired Tryptamine. No need for a complicated extraction from the psilocin/cybin usually produced.

However, if the nature of the liquid culture actually inhibits the mushroom's metabolism, then this will not work. I have a ref. on this subject, but I have not as of yet looked it up.

-Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964

Laters, PsiliPharm

[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 16, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90450 - 11/16/99 04:52 PM (24 years, 5 months ago)

I found some good article sources that help explain this process a little more:

TITLE: Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe.
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institut fur Biotechnologie der AdW, Leipzig.
SOURCE: J Basic Microbiol 1989;29(6):347-52
CITATION IDS: PMID: 2614674 UI: 90133446
ABSTRACT: Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis capable of forming psilocybin and psilocin de novo display a high capacity for hydroxylation of tryptamine derivatives at the 4-position. A specific biotransformation of added synthetic N,N-diethyl-tryptamine was found. Thus high amounts of 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (up to 3.3%) and a minor quantity of 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (0.01-0.8%) were isolated from fruiting bodies of Psilocybe cubensis in corresponding experiments. This is the first example of a directed biosynthesis of tryptamine substances by fungi. An effective biotransformation of N- methyltryptamine was also demonstrated with surface cultures of Psilocybe semilanceata. Baeocystin, a possible natural precursor of psilocybin, was detected and quantified in the biomasses. No alkaloids could be found in the culture medium.

TITLE: Baeocystin in psilocybe, conocybe and paraeolus.
AUTHORS: Repke DB; Leslie DT; Guzman G
SOURCE: Lloydia 1977 Nov-Dec;40(6):566-78
CITATION IDS: PMID: 600026 UI: 78091381
ABSTRACT: Sixty collections of ten species referred to three families of the Agaricales have been analyzed for the presence of baeocystin by thin- layer chromatography. Baeocystin was detected in collections of Psilocybe, Conocybe, and Panaeolus from the U.S.A., Canada, Mexico, and Peru. Laboratory cultivated fruitbodies of Psilocybe cubensis, P. semilanceata, and P. cyanescens were also studied. Intra-species variation in the presence of decay rate of baeocystin, psilocybin and psilocin are discussed in terms of age and storage factors. In addition, evidence is presented to support the presence of 4- hydroxytryptamine in collections of P. baeocystis and P. cyanescens. The possible significance of baeocystin and 4-hydroxytryptamine in the biosynthesis of psilocybin in these organisms is discussed.

TITLE: The relationship of carbon and nitrogen nutrition of Psilocybe baeocystis to the production of psilocybin and its analogs.
AUTHORS: Leung AY; Paul AG
SOURCE: Lloydia 1969 Mar;32(1):66-71
CITATION IDS: PMID: 5788770 UI: 69215710

TITLE: Biosynthesis of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis. 1. Incorporation of labelled tryptophan and tryptamine.
AUTHORS: Agurell S; Blomkvist S; Catalfomo P
SOURCE: Acta Pharm Suec 1966 Feb;3(1):37-44
CITATION IDS: PMID: 5948634 UI: 66109277

TITLE: The fine structure of Psilocybe quebecensis.
SOURCE: Mycopathol Mycol Appl 1973 Apr 30;49(4):321-38
CITATION IDS: PMID: 4122667 UI: 73189597


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90451 - 11/19/99 02:33 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

This is from:

-Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964

Which I mentioned before, I figured it would be useful for anyone interested.

Pellets of Psilocybe cubensis produced in medium no. 1 [ammonium succinate (1 g), Glycine (9 g), Glucose (5 g), yeast extract (.5 g), KH2PO4 (.1 g), thiamine hydrochloride (.003 g), (NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O (.05 mg), ZnSO4-7H2O (.3 mg), MnCl2-4H2O (.35 mg), FeSO4-7H2O (2.5 mg), CuSO4-5H2O (0.5 mg), MgSO4-7H2O (0.5 g), distilled water, to make (1.0 L), adjust to pH 5.5 with hydrochloric acid] accumulated psilocybin but not psilocin. Maximum production of the former compound occurred on the seventh day (0.52 per cent, dry weight of mycelium), whereas growth attained its maximum (average 112.6 mg, dry weight of mycelium per 30 mL of medium in a 125 mL flask) on the ninth day.
Maximum yields of both psilocybin and mycelium occurred in the acid pH range (4.0-4.6). However, the acidid nature of the mycelium does not preclude the possibility that thte internal pH of the organism is maintained at a different level by an efficient buffering system. Failure to find psilocybin in the medium may be attributed to its instability in the vigorously agitated acid medium, although permability factors are probably also involved.
In the absence of a readily assimilable carbon source (glucose), detectable amounts of psilocybin did not accumulate. Omission of ammonium succinate did not significantly alter the pH of the medium but it did lower psilocybin yields. Without yeast extract, mycelial production was retarded at five days, and culture liquors remained acidic through the eleventh day. Adaption and/or synthesis of necessary precursors nevertheless permitted a continued increase in growth which was accompanied by a rapid increase inthe yield of psilocybin by the seventh day. Similar results were obtained for media from which both yeast extract and thiamine had been omitted, except psilocybin levels remained lower.
According to Cochrane (5) most fungi have an absolute requirement for thiamine; however, where low levels are needed, synthesis takes place after initiation of growth. Under conditions of thiamine deficiency, glucose utilization is impaired, which may account for initial inhibition of growth when yeast extract or that ingredient and thiamine were omitted from the medium. Although glycine constituted more than one-half of the total weight of the dissolved solids in medium no. 1, the organism grew and metabolized efficiently in its absence.
The influence of different concentrations of glucose, ammonium succinate, and potassium acid phosphate in medium no. 1 was noted. A low level of glucose was associated with a rapid rise in exracellular pH, and lower levels of product accumulated. Doubling the normal amount of carbohydrate promoted psilocybin accumulation which reached a level of 1.02 percent (dry weight) by the seventh day. After eleven days, this level dropped to 0.15 percent; a similar sudden decline in psilocybin content was also noted in those flasks containing a reduced phosphate concentration. The significance of the low pH levels after eleven days is unknown. In contrast, levels of ammonium succinate which were one-half or twice that of the normal medium had no significant effect upon pH or psilocybin production.
Extracellular tryptophan added to replacement flasks did not enhance psilocybin production, but, instead, underwent degradative reactions of the type reported to occur in Neurospora and other fungi (5). This conclusion is based on the observation that a progressive increase in kynurenine, a catabolic product of tryptophan metabolism, paralleled the disappearance of tryptophan. These results are not necessarily contradictory to those obtained by Brack, et al. (2) since they used a different organism and different experimental design which preclude a direct comparison. However, our results do establish the existance of a direct relationship between psilocybin production and mycelial growth. Utilization of th replacement culture technique served to separate growth and psilocybin production, whereas the method of Brack, et al., did not afford this distinction. It was concluded that psilocybin production is so intimately related to mycelial proliferation that the nutrient-deficient replacement medium was of little value inthe study of psilocybin biosynthesis. However, the technique had previously proven satisfactory for biosynthetic studies of other indole derivatives in fungi (3).
Increasing the scale of fermentation from 30 mL of medium in 125-mL flasks to 300 mL in 2800-mL flasks markedly affected psilocybin production. Significatn differences in yields did not appear until after the seventh day when accumulation of product ceased, and a more rapid decline occurred in the large flasks as the pellets became physiologically older. Although the cause of this phenomenon was not established, it way be attributed, at least in part, to differences in teh efficiency of aeration of the cultures.

I also thought I might add that using Loofa in the substrate in this experiment might be a good idea in order to get the shroom to soak up more of the percursors. Here is a good discussion on that:


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 14, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90452 - 11/19/99 02:39 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90453 - 11/20/99 08:06 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Your question is going to have to be more specific than just WHAT?!?!

I don't know what to say to that!


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90454 - 11/21/99 01:06 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)




DreaderThanDread - Listen!
(druqs said) don't get arsey, just get RC.

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90455 - 12/05/99 03:19 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I bet you thought this thread was dead, well it's not! I've got more information to share! This all comes from:

Mack, J.P.G. and Slaytor, M. (1979), Indolethylamine N-Methyltransferases of Phalaris tuberosa, Purification and Properties. Phytochem, 18, 1921.

"The specificities of the amine substrates to accept methyl groups using the step 3 preparation are listed in Table 5. 5-Methyltryptamine and 5-MeOT are methylated at the same rate as T. Other substituents in the indole nucleus cause methylation to proceed at a lower rate, e.g. 6-methoxytryptamine is methylated at 30% of the rate at which tryptamine is methylated. MT and 5-MeOMT are methylated at ca 2.5 times the tryptamine rate, reflecting the higher levels of SIM activity compared to PIM in the preparation. Phenylethylamines are methylated at a lower rate than the tryptamines. The ratio of activity towards N-methylphenylethylamine and phenylethylamine is 3:1, about the same as that found for the corresponding tryptamine substrates. Thus it seems that both PIM and SIM have the ability to accept a benzene ring instead of the normal indole nucleus. Substitution of the phenyl ring by bulky methoxy groups does not change the ability to methylate these compounds. The methoxy groups would occupy the space normally occupied by the benzene ring of the indole nucleus,and thus they offer no steric hindrance for binding to PIM. None of the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines, the ring closed analogues of the tryptamines were methylated, i.e. the ethylamine side chain must be in a position othe than that found in the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines. Consistent with this is the fact that the tetrahydroisoquinolines were also not methylated. The rate of methylation of histamine,w hich is much less hydrophobic than phenylethylamine, although having a similar charge at pH 8.5 and being only slightly smaller, was 100 times less.
The 5-hydroxyindole derivatives seem to be as good substrates as the unsubstituted or 5-methoxy derivatives, allowing for the lower solubility of the product in the extracting toluene. Since 5-OHDMT is produced inthe plant [1], it seems most likely that 5-OHT and 5-OHMT are normal substrates of PIM and SIM. A similar conclusion is reached from trapping experiements with whole plants [2].
The specificity of the SAM site was tested using homocysteine and adenosine as inhibitors in the normal assay. There was not inhibition of PIM or SIM activity by adenosine (1 mM) or homocysteine (1mM)."

Also given was a chart, here:

T=Tryptamine and P=Phenethylamine
These were given in percentages.

T - 100
NMT - 260
5-MeOT - 88
5-MeONMT - 220
6-MeOT - 31
6-MT - 76
6-OHT - 24
P - 10
NMP - 30
4-OHP - 1.2
3,4-DiOHP - 0.2
3-OH-4MeOP - 8.1
3,4-DiMeOP - 13
3-OH-4,5-DiMeOP - 3.1
Tetrahydroharman - 0.12
1-Me-6-OHtetrahydro-beta-carboline - 0.38
1-Me-6-MeOtetrahydro-beta-carboline - 0.31
6,7-DiMeO-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline - 0.59
1-Me-6-OH-7-MeO-1,2,3,4-tetrahydroisoquinoline - 0.93
Salsoline - 2.3
Anhalonidine - 0.90
Histamine - <0.12
Ethylamine - 0.31
Diethylamine - 0.19
Piperidine - <0.12
Tetrahydropyrrole - 0.12

The highest activity that they state as being inactive is 0.93% which doesn't make 4-OHP very active if at all.

Basically, what all this means is that one may be able to make some new phenethylamines with this enzyme which is present in Psilocybe shrooms. Although, Dimethylphenethylamines aren't that active not all of the phenethylamines will be dimethylated, some will be partially methylated producing N-methylphenethylamines. The only good use of this information that I can think of right now is that one may be able to produce N,N-Dimethylcathinone and N-methylcathinone with this enzyme. Well, if the hydroxylation enzyme works on phenethylamines then the possible products of adding cathinone to the substrate would be 6-HO-DiMeCAT and 6-HO-N-MeCAT and the phosphate esters of both of these. The reason I said that cathinone is a better phenethylamine-like substance to use is because N,N-dimethylcathinone is only 1.6-fold less potent than N-methylcathinone whereas N,N-dimethylamphetamine is 7-fold less potent than N-methylamphetamine. I did not receive all of this information myself. The reference and excerpt given above was e-mailed to me from Teonanacatl on DMT World. Here is his website which has some extraction and biosynthetic information on it: www.indole.org He also started a new thread on DMT World about this, here:

INMP - Resurrection of 4-hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Youjustsu)

Something else that he had mentioned in his e-mail was that he believed that all N-methyltransferases required SAM which I asked whether or not one might be able to spead up the conversion process by providing SAM in the substrate? That question is still unanswered.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90456 - 12/06/99 05:36 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I am speachless...I am impressed...I am jealous...I should have learned more chemistry in school, dam I don`t understand the half, but if you can explain simply what you have done to create better shroomz, please keep posting
I will do my homework
but I am not sure if I want my shroomz to more potent, but maybe they should work longer and with a stronger up high...

you are the first one to deserve the title "ultra-mad scientist"

I am still impressed

i'm back

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90457 - 12/06/99 07:45 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Well that is exactly why I've provided all the links...most of the information can be found through those links. You can do one of many things to either potentiate, raise, or alter the chemicals contents of the shrooms with these methods described above. The thing that I'm interested in the most is altering the chemical contents of the shrooms to provide an altered trip. Something new! I'm not the first person to think of this. But I am one of the first people to elaborate on how this may be used and provide theories of where this might lead to. If one knows the metabolic pathway then one may be able to alter the chemical that is produced by providing an altered percursor. There was something I wanted to add to this thread but I forgot what it was. Oh well, it'll come to me, later. Thanks for the compliments and do your research. Tis not that hard, especially if a high school student can do it.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90458 - 12/06/99 08:11 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Here, I would like to point out this thread even that most people have already seen it:

Boost up potency!

The reason I decided to add it is because I wanted to say how it could relate to this thread. If cayenne peppers really do boost potency some way then they would raise the level of alkaloids produced in these experiments and theories outlined above. Please, anybody, if you attempt any of the ideas above then please post your findings. Oh I just remembered what I was going to add to this thread. In the Tryptamine FAQ, 5- and 6-fluorotryptophans were listed as being potentially psychedelic. Since tryptophan is cheaper and less likely to be watched then you might be able to convert it to one of the previous compounds and then introducing it to the mushroom. The Tryptophan Decarboxylase enzyme will turn it into 5- or 6-fluorotryptamine and then on to 4-HO-5-F-DMT or 4-HO-6-F-DMT. That is if the other enzymes will accept those compounds, the 5-fluorotryptophan may be a problem with the 4-hydroxylation enzyme since it is so close to that position, but that is only a theory which I hope to be disproven. I suggest 7-fluorotryptophan to produce 4-HO-7-F-DMT, but since 5-MeO-7-F-DMT is less potent than 5-MeO-DMT then it might also be less potent but then again it could be more interesting. Less potent isn't always bad, new effects and experiences are sometimes present.

One more thing, I think that this experiment should be done with my Genetically Mutated Mushrooms which could be applied Psilocybe Cubensis or any Other Tryptamine-carrying Shrooms. Many interesting species' and strains can be obtained from:

The Hawk's Eye


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 06, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90459 - 12/11/99 10:45 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I found the names of the enzymes responsible for the production of Psilocybin in this paper which is a very interesting paper:

"Attempted Molecular Cloning of Enzymes from the Psilocybin Biosynthesis Pathway in Psilocybe tampanensis"


This diploma thesis gives many references on psilocybin biosynthesis, psilocybin detection, mushroom culturing, and molecular biology methods.

This was found in the post Psilocybin biosynthesis by Lilienthal.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90460 - 12/13/99 03:16 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I was just looking for various subsituted tryptamines and tryptophans on www.chemacx.com for use in shrooms and other tryptamine-producing organisms or even for synthesis. I left out Tryptamine, Tryptophan, and their 5-Hydroxy and N-Acetyl analogs with a few exceptions. I'm sure, by now, you are able to figure out what the products of these chemicals used in such an experiment as the one discussed above. Also, all prices are discounted through an account with www.chemacx.com. So these prices are slightly lower than what one would pay without an account with www.chemacx.com. Here is the list:

ICN Biomedical Research Products
25mg $9.50
100mg $23.75
500mg $93.10
1g $152.00

Lancaster Synthesis Inc.
1g $25.27
5g $100.32

10g $67.50

ICN Biomedical Research Products
50mg $13.30
100mg $19.00
250mg $36.20
500mg $60.80

Acros Organics
100mg $49.31
500mg $217.27

ICN Biomedical Research Products
25mg $18.05
50mg $27.55
100mg $45.60
250mg $99.75

Acros Organics
250mg $43.32

Acros Organics
100mg $21.66
1g $151.43

100mg $15.85
1g $86.30

INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc.
1g $94.05
5g $292.60

ICN Biomedical Research Products
100mg $12.16
500mg $63.51
1g $114.81

ICN Biomedical Research Products
5mg $43.61
10mg $81.70
25mg $163.40

Acros Organics
250mg $31.64
1g $88.92

Acros Organics
250mg $20.62
1g $56.62

Acros Organics
100mg $27.36
1g $192.28

Lancaster Synthesis Inc.
0.25g $21.76
1g $62.60

INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc.
1g $292.60

Acros Organics
500mg $42.09
1g $64.51

ICN Biomedical Research Products
100mg $11.88
500mg $39.43
1g $66.50
10g $475.00

100mg $31.05

Acros Organics
250mg $42.66
1g $114.95

ICN Biomedical Research Products
250mg $64.60
500mg $103.55
1g $175.75

Pfaltz & Bauer, Inc.
100mg $24.90
500mg $77.25
1g $127.06

Acros Organics
100mg $19.86

ICN Biomedical Research Products
25mg $8.08
100mg $21.85
500mg $72.20
1g $120.65

Acros Organics
100mg $16.25
1g $100.80

ICN Biomedical Research Products
50mg $11.31
100mg $18.10
500mg $65.69


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90461 - 12/13/99 07:51 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

PsiliPharm, was there a question in all of this or were you simply advertising for as many pharmacutical companies as you possibly could? Really though, I understand your ideas, but it comes to a point when you have to ask yourself, if you have all of this knowedge of chemistry, then why not just synthesize psilocybin, and try out new drug cocktails? What does any one of these chemicals have anything to do with mushroom cultivation, and how could these chemicals help anyone on this board? I don't really know why I am asking you this, but probably it is due to the fact that of the 24 repies to this topic previous to my own, 17 of those were from you. Basically, what I am asking you is, why are you posting this stuff? Everyone and anyone can find this stuff out very easily with any search engine, and most of the people on this board probably dont understand 10% of what you are saying.

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90462 - 12/14/99 08:35 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)

go on Psilli I anm saving it on my harddisk and someday I`ll try it...

to Dan this place was known as THE EYPERIMENTATION STATION and I love this thread

go on Psilli

i'm back

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90463 - 12/14/99 04:24 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)


I don't think it would be wise to ingest a tryptamine halide. Chlorine, flourine, bromine... these are NOT chemicals that I would want in my body.

Another point, regurgitation usually implies a lack of knowledge. Not all this shit you're spewing out is good. Let me put it this way: TRYPTAMINES=GOOD PHENYLETHYLAMINES=BAD.

Another thing, if you're going to list a chemical, use the proper notations. For example, SO4 is not the same as SO4.

That said, DIPT is probably one of the stronger additives you can put in the substrate. Although it can be expensive, it is MUCH stronger than DMT-based chemicals (i.e. psilocybin, psilocin, etc...)

I'm spent.

</font><font color="#800000">"After the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered, taste and smell alone, more fragile but more enduring, more unsubstanial, more persistent, more faithful, remain poised a long time, like souls, remembering, waiting, hoping, amid the ruins of all the rest."
-Marcel Proust</font>

Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90464 - 12/14/99 06:10 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, the entire basis of this is to produce NEW drugs and NEW experiences. True, I've gotten away from the original topic a little bit. Originally, I was posting this because I heard that the shrooms would retain the drugs provided in the substrate and therefore the trip would be altered because the shrooms will contain more compounds such as harmaline if it was provided in the substrate. Some say that it would be broken down into something that the shroom can use and some say that it would remain in the mushroom. Well whenever I found out that the actual chemical structure of the compound provided may be altered by the enzymes in the mushroom. That is when I posted all of the chemicals above and their prices, they are available and they may be used to produce new Psilocin/Psilocybin analogs. I'M NOT ADVERTISING FOR ANYONE! Just providing sources, to make the lives of everyone who is thinking about attempting this experiment easier. To give you an example on how one of the above chemicals may be used, 6-Fluoro-tryptamine could be used in the substrate/growing media of the shrooms to produce 6-Fluoro-Psilocin/Psilocybin also known as 4-HO-6-F-DMT. 6-F-AMT was pointed out to be potentially psychedelic and 5-F-AMT is a MAOI with antidepressent-like effects. I would like to point out that halogenated tryptamines/tryptophans are highly poisonous. As described here:


The product may not be but you don't know what amount of it wasn't converted. So when dealing with these compounds, one may need to do some sort of chromatography method to detect and separate the different compounds. As described in the link above, mutations are also likely to occur with these compounds or any compound for that matter. The shrooms are forced to react to the conditions that surround them, some shrooms may not grow as well with these chemicals, but they are likely to adapt. Also, personally I like tryptamines better than phenethylamines but since phenethylamines are liked by many people and since they can be effected by the enzymes in Psilocybe mushrooms, I figured I should mention the possibilities. Another thing, I copied and pasted that excerpt from the article about the submerged culture which lacked subscripts in the molecular formulas. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like going back and typing the html code required. For the most part, it is the same. Plus, anyone who knows anything about chemistry would be able to read that for what it is. Ok, one more thing. DIPT is actually not that good of a substance by itself but 4-HO-DIPT and 5-MeO-DIPT are! Which 4-HO-DIPT is what I'm trying to achieve using shrooms as the medium for hydroxylation at the 4-position. Now that is said, I have one more thing to say:


Also, CHECK OUT THE LINKS TO OTHER SITES AND THREADS because they help explain this a little easier and have different examples. Only the basics are repeated and most are taylored for the specific bulletin board.

I'm going to re-state the NEW purpose of this thread:

The purpose is to make NEW compounds, not OLD ones such as DMT, DPT, AMT, DIPT, Psilocin/Psilocybin, etc.

Keeping that in mind, there is some uncertainty involved in producing these NEW compounds since many of them have never been synthesized, let alone experimented on a living thing. One should be capable of identifying the compounds produced and possibly isolate them from the other compounds. The truth is that the biosynthesis process makes this easy for anyone who's capable of growing mushrooms and handling the chemicals involved. Be safe, make sure you know what you're doing before you do it.

Ok, I would like to comment on something Dan said. Why would I want to synthesize Psilocin/Psilocybin when shrooms do all the work for me? That is the entire point of this thread, biosynthesis is easier than chemical synthesis and cheaper too.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90465 - 12/14/99 08:45 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, I'm curious does anyone have a synthesis for 4,5-methylenedioxy-tryptamine? It may be interesting to introduce it into shrooms to see if the 4,5-methylenedioxy will remain intact and produce 4,5-methylenedioxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine!


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90466 - 12/15/99 05:36 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I thought I might post some links to some interesting mushroom growing and tissue culture sites:

Growing Mushrooms With Hydrogen Peroxide

Plant Tissue Culture for Home Gardeners

Plant Cell, Tissue and Organ Culture - An International Journal on the Cell Biology of Higher Plants

Plant Tissue Culture Research at the University of Minnesota

The International Association For Plant Tissue Culture (IAPTC)

Tissue Culture Biologicals

Of course, there are many more sources and I may provide them later. This is just some places to start looking. DOGPILE is a good multi-engine search engine that I use quite often to find some of my links.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90467 - 12/15/99 06:36 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, there seems to be many people on here using 5-hydroxy-tryptophan (5-HTP) in their substrates. Well this made me curious as to what the actual product of this is. Well the Tryptophan Decarboxylase will obviously convert it to 5-hydroxy-tryptamine (5-HT) and the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) N-methyltransferase will convert that into 5-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine and 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Bufotenine). Now, there is some controversy over whether the 5-hydroxy stays or goes and whether the 4-hydroxy is attatched while the 5-hydroxy is attatched producing 4,5-dihydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine because of the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) 4-Monooxygenase. Another questionable step is with the enzyme which creates the phosphate ester of 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) which is called Psilocybin. The enzyme is called Psilocin-O-phosphotransferase but I think it should be called 4-hydroxytryptamine-O-phosphotransferase or something like that since many 4-hydroxy-T's will be altered by this enzyme. The question is whether or not it might confuse 5-HO-DMT (Bufotenine) as being 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) and produce the phosphate ester of it and if 4,5-DiHO-DMT is the most abundant product then does it do the same to both positions or just one and which one? Someone needs to identify the products of 5-substituted-T's in the substrate since the position is so close to the 4-position, the enzymes may get confused or have trouble working around it.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90468 - 12/16/99 01:14 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, a very academic discussion. Sort of a PsiliPharm research paper.. very valuable.. . thanks... but the question remains: if I put some of these "nutrients" into my substrate or mycelium culture, will it ultimately actually increase the potency of the mature mushroom? Does anybody have experimental evidence of that?

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90469 - 12/15/99 10:50 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, you're making the shrooms more potent or atleast significantly altering the trip by producing new chemicals. Potency isn't a very good measure of the quality of a trip. For example, the pyr-T's talked about in TIHKAL are more potent than DMT but are definitely not more fun. The idea is to find something more fun than Psilocin/Psilocybin or just something that is different and interesting. For example, AMT may produce the Alpha-Methyl analog of Psilocin/Psilocybin (4-HO-AMDMT) which will probably be more potent or just longer lasting. I've given several sources for evidence of this probability. It basically depends on what "nutrients" you're thinking about using.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90470 - 12/18/99 09:51 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, I decided to re-post something from 5-HTM (Serotonin) that D'Gatz posted:

"In Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, approximately 22% of labeled tryptamine was incorporated into psilocybin. The addition of tryptamine hydrochloride to substrate increases yield of psilocybin in dried mushrooms from 0.01-0.2% to 3.3%. (Gartz 1989) (Stamets 1996).
A concentration of 25 millimoles of tryptamine hydrochloride is added to 10 grams mushroom substrate (spawn media). The substrate is composed of either rye grain spawn or rice spawn. The following spawns can be used for the culture of many species of mushrooms:
Rye Grain Spawn: 50 grams of rye grain
65 mL of water
Cow manure/Rice spawn:
0.5 cup of dried cow manure
0.25 cup of rice grain
1.5 cups of water
The spawn is placed in one pint wide mouth canning jars and pressure cooked for 30 minutes. A culture grown on PDA or MEA media is inoculated into the spawn jars and allowed to grow until the jar is completely covered in mycelium. A large aquarium can be used to cultivate the mushrooms for identification."

The rest of the entry just goes on to describe how to fruit; casing, etc.

Anyway, the reference to Gartz is:

Gartz, J.; Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis; Planta Medica (1989) 55: 249-250

Of course, I would like to make some possible corrections and ask some questions that some people may need to think about. First off, I think the 3.3% is actually Psilocin not Psilocybin but Psilocybin is probably also increased. In fact, about 0.01%-0.8% of Psilocybin is probably produced. The Psilocin/Psilocybin ratio should probably remain the same. Also, how many grams of tryptamine is 25 millimoles? I think it is 4g? And how many grams of shrooms will 10 grams of substrate produce? That way we know about how many grams of alkaloids is produced. The reason why this post and these questions are somewhat important to me is because mathmatically it would allow me to determine how much of these other additives to use and how much is produced.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90471 - 12/18/99 11:37 AM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I decided to post some articles I've found that might prove useful in many ways, such as, detection, analysis, storage, and various other procedures for further understanding and learning:

TITLE: Analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in Psilocybe subcubensis Guzman by ion mobility spectrometry and gas chromatography-mass spectrometry.
AUTHORS: Keller T; Schneider A; Regenscheit P; Dirnhofer R; Rucker T; Jaspers J; Kisser W
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institute of Forensic Medicine, University of Salzburg, Austria.
SOURCE: Forensic Sci Int 1999 Jan 11;99(2):93-105
CITATION IDS: PMID: 10077856 UI: 99177582
ABSTRACT: A new method has been developed for the rapid analysis of psilocybin and/or psilocin in fungus material using ion mobility spectrometry. Quantitative analysis was performed by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry after a simple one-step extraction involving homogenization of the dried fruit bodies of fungi in chloroform and derivatization with MSTFA. The proposed methods resulted in rapid procedures useful in analyzing psychotropic fungi for psilocybin and psilocin.

TITLE: [The forensic chemical study of psilocybine-containing fungi]
VERNACULAR TITLE: Sudebno-khimicheskoe issledovanie psilotsibinsoderzhashchikh gribov.
AUTHORS: Babakhanian RV; Bushuev ES; Zenkevich IG; Kazankov SP; Kostyrko TA; Kuz'minykh KS
SOURCE: Sud Med Ekspert 1998 Nov-Dec;41(6):24-6
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9989170 UI: 99143715
ABSTRACT: A method for isolating the main components (psilocybin and psilocine) from Psilocybe semilanceata mushrooms, their identification and measurement by thin-layer and gas-liquid chromatography, chromatographic mass-spectrometry, and inverse-phase high-performance liquid chromatography is developed.

TITLE: Strategies for the capillary electrophoretic separation of indole alkaloids in Psilocybe semilanceata.
AUTHORS: Pedersen-Bjergaard S; Rasmussen KE; Sannes E
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: School of Pharmacy, University of Oslo, Norway. stig.pedersen- bjergaard@farmasi.uio.no
SOURCE: Electrophoresis 1998 Jan;19(1):27-30
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9511859 UI: 98170809
ABSTRACT: While the hallucinogenic mushrooms Psilocybe semilanceata have previously been analyzed for the indole alkaloids psilocybin and baeocystin by capillary zone electrophoresis (CZE) at pH 11.5, the present work focused on the development of an alternative and complementary capillary electrophoretic method for their identification. Owing to their structural similarity and zwitterionic nature, the compounds were difficult to resolve based on different interactions with cationic or anionic micelles. However, while the attempts with micellar electrokinetic chromatography (MEKC) were unsuccessful, rapid derivatization with propyl chloroformate and reanalysis by CZE at pH 11.5 was effective to support identification of the two indole alkaloids. Psilocin was difficult to analyze by CZE at pH 11.5 owing to comigration with the electroosmotic flow. For this compound, the pH of the running buffer was reduced to 7.2 to effectively enhance the electrophoretic mobility.

TITLE: Presence of phenylethylamine in hallucinogenic Psilocybe mushroom: possible role in adverse reactions.
AUTHORS: Beck O; Helander A; Karlson-Stiber C; Stephansson N
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Karolinska Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.
SOURCE: J Anal Toxicol 1998 Jan-Feb;22(1):45-9
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9491968 UI: 98150932
ABSTRACT: The use of mushrooms containing the hallucinogenic substance psilocybin for intentional intoxication is relatively common. Occasionally, this results in adverse reactions with typical tachycardia that is not evidently caused by psilocybin. This study demonstrates the presence of phenylethylamine in the species Psilocybe semilanceata using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and shows that the amount of this substance may vary much more than that of psilocybin. The highest amount of phenylethylamine (146 microg/g wet weight) was observed in mushrooms from a case of three young men hospitalized because of adverse reactions. Comparison of the symptoms observed in clinical cases of magic mushroom intoxication with those after intake of pure psilocybin or phenylethylamine suggests that phenylethylamine might have a role in the development of adverse reactions to Psilocybe mushroom intake.

TITLE: Determination of psilocybin in Psilocybe semilanceata by capillary zone electrophoresis.
AUTHORS: Pedersen-Bjergaard S; Sannes E; Rasmussen KE; Tonnesen F
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: School of Pharmacy, University of Oslo, Norway.
SOURCE: J Chromatogr B Biomed Sci Appl 1997 Jul 4;694(2):375-81
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9252052 UI: 97394334
ABSTRACT: A capillary zone electrophoretic (CZE) method was developed for the rapid determination of psilocybin in Psilocybe semilanceata. Following a simple two step extraction with 3.0+2.0 ml methanol, the hallucinogenic compound was effectively separated from matrix components by CZE utilizing a 10 mM borate-phosphate running buffer adjusted to pH 11.5. The identity of psilocybin was confirmed by migration time information and by UV spectra, while quantitation was accomplished utilizing barbital as internal standard. The calibration curve for psilocybin was linear within 0.01-1 mg/ml, while intra-day and inter-day variations of quantitative data were 0.5 and 2.5% R.S.D., respectively. In addition to psilocybin, the method was also suitable for the determination of the structurally related compound baeocystin.

TITLE: An aqueous-organic extraction method for the isolation and identification of psilocin from hallucinogenic mushrooms.
SOURCE: J Forensic Sci 1985 Jan;30(1):247-50
CITATION IDS: PMID: 4038992 UI: 85159482
ABSTRACT: A simple aqueous extraction method for the isolation and identification of psilocin from Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms is reported. This method employs a dephosphorylation of the phosphate ester to psilocin, which facilitates a greater product yield and simplifies identification. Psilocin extracted by this method is sufficiently concentrated and free of cocontaminants to allow identification by infrared spectroscopy and gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.

TITLE: Qualitative and quantitative determinations of hallucinogenic components of psilocybe mushrooms by reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography.
AUTHORS: Vanhaelen-Fastre R; Vanhaelen M
SOURCE: J Chromatogr 1984 Nov 16;312:467-72
CITATION IDS: PMID: 6543215 UI: 85131450

TITLE: Variation of psilocybin and psilocin levels with repeated flushes (harvests) of mature sporocarps of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer.
AUTHORS: Bigwood J; Beug MW
SOURCE: J Ethnopharmacol 1982 May;5(3):287-91
CITATION IDS: PMID: 7201054 UI: 82218321
ABSTRACT: Analysis of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer grown in controlled culture showed that the level of psilocin was generally zero in the first (or sometimes even the second) fruiting of the mushroom from a given culture and that the level reached a maximum by the fourth flush. The level of psilocybin, which was nearly always at least twice the level of psilocin, showed no upward or downward trend as fruiting progressed, but was variable over a factor of four. Samples obtained from outside sources had psilocybin levels varying by over a factor of ten from one collection to the next.

TITLE: Quantitative analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in psilocybe baeocystis (Singer and Smith) by high-performance liquid chromatography and by thin-layer chromatography.
AUTHORS: Beug MW; Bigwood J
SOURCE: J Chromatogr 1981 Mar 27;207(3):379-85
CITATION IDS: PMID: 7194879 UI: 81192040
ABSTRACT: Rapid quantification of psilocybin and psilocin in extracts of wild mushrooms is accomplished by reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography with paired-ion reagents. Nine solvent systems and three solid supports are evaluated for their efficiency in separating psilocybin, psilocin and other components of crude mushroom extracts by thin-layer chromatography.

For storage of mushrooms, I suggest honey. It's been done that way since biblical times (manna?) and seems to work. Also, extraction of the alkaloids may be done using ethanol or methanol which is the choice of Gartz as shown here:


Also, these are some things that should be taken into consideration in trying to preserve your mushrooms:





I'm just trying to provide ya with the best sources of information and if anyone has anything to add, do so.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90472 - 12/18/99 02:55 PM (24 years, 4 months ago)

I just made a very interesting post that may prove to be useful in the many biosynthesis experiments that were described previously in this thread. Here is that post:

5,000 Hz Frequencies To Boost Absorbtion and Growth!


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90473 - 12/21/99 12:02 AM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe this is a stupid idea buuuuut: "lares" 5-HTP is 5-hydroxytryptophan and 5-HT (seratonin) is 5-hydroxytryptamine" ... I was wondering what putting a Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor (S.S.R.I.) like Prozac or Paxil into substrate or directly onto the pins or shrooms or what!!! Would this be worth a try or totally uninformed stupidity?

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90474 - 12/21/99 04:42 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Truthfully, I would have to say, "Uninformed Stupidity," but don't worry, not long ago I would have probably said the same thing or something similar. But then again, you never know what may happen. Doubtful, that anything will, the structures are too far different from each other. Tryptamine looks nothing like Fluoxetine (Prozac) and many similar structures are uneffected by the enzymes, what's to say that something as different as Prozac is going to be effected. The tag SSRI is due to how it acts on the receptors in your brain. Tryptamines are agonists and SSRI's are antagonists, so to speak. They're almost like complete opposites. SSRI's will cause trips to be less profound and not so great but it'll possibly prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA (Ecstasy) and other similar phenethylamines that have neurotoxic effects on the Serotonin (5-HT) receptors. It'll also hinder the good effects of MDMA, if taken on a regular basis before the MDMA trip. So I imagine taking an SSRI after a MDMA trip along with some 5-HTP. I'm still learning Neuropharmacology, so I'm not exactly positive if this works, but alot of people have talked about it on Forums, BBs, and Newsgroups like this one for a while now. Also, one of the ways that helped me understand the differences in the structures of these compounds was through Chemfinder. Often if I didn't know what a substance looked like, I went here.


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]

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OfflineCurious G
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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90475 - 12/21/99 05:43 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

PsiliPharm, complete opposites? You're using the wrong terminology. Protagonist and antagonist, like hero and villian. 'agonist' has no meaning.

"I drink to make other people interesting."
? George Jean Nathan

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90476 - 12/21/99 06:24 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously, you don't know anything about neuropharmacology. I'm not going to pretend like I know everything, but I know this:

Antagonists: drugs that block or inhibit postsynaptic effects
Agonists: drugs that facilitate postsynaptic effect

Here is the source:


Also, now that I've read this site, I realize that a re-uptake inhibitor is actually an agonist. So I'm not sure if a SSRI will help prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA but it's still possible.


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90477 - 12/23/99 02:51 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

I've recently been informed that the 4-hydroxylation enzyme is not specific to what is on the ethylamine chain such as the alpha-methyl in AMT. Which, I was pretty sure of but not absolutely sure. So it is absolutely definite that 4-hydroxy-alpha,N,N-trimethyltryptamine (4-HO-TMT, 4-HO-AMDMT, Alpha-Methyl-Psilocin) will be produced if AMT is added to the substrate. Of course, the phosphorylation enzyme will make it a more stable compound. So would it be possible to increase the phosphorylation of the product by including some kind of phosphate into the substrate?


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90478 - 12/23/99 02:56 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Here's what Bob Wallace from www.promind.com had to say about detecting and isolating these compounds using chromatography, I suggested TLC (Thin-Layer Chromatography):

You might be able to get a hit or two with TLC, but for any kind of
volume you'd probably need to go to column chromatography.

The huge problem here is getting the reference compound. Sure,
maybe there are some nice spots, but without a reference you don't
know which is which. Probably you'd need to do the TLC, do a
GC/MS on a small piece of each spot to identify the structure,
and save the rest of the spot as a reference. Or, to do a LAB test
(large animal bioassay :wink: to see if column work will be worthwhile.
The you do the column separation, saving a series of collections,
then test each collection sample with TLC and your reference.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90479 - 12/26/99 07:30 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

I would like to make a correction at this time...In one of the previous posts, the last post on the first page, I quoted a quote from a post that D'Gatz made on another thread. Well a simple mistake was made, not by me, but he said that 25 millimoles of tryptamine was used, but it was actually 0.25 millimoles of tryptamine. Which means instead of 4g of tryptamine, only 40mg of tryptamine was used to produce up to 3.3% Psilocin, since tryptamine weighs 160.22g/mol. Well, if 22% of the tryptamine was converted into Psilocin, then that means 8.8mg of Psilocin was converted. So, if that 8.8mg is the 3.3% Psilocin, then there was approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown. Also, if approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown and 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, then approx. 2.1mg of Psilocybin was produced. Of course, the levels of Psilocin/Psilocybin was probably not this high at the same time. While 3.3% Psilocin was detected, Psilocybin was probably undetectable and while 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, less than 3.3% Psilocin was produced. The highest level of Psilocybin will probably come in the second flush, whereas the highest level of Psilocin will come in the fourth flush. Psilocin levels remains somewhat consistant from flush to flush, whereas Psilocybin levels change rapidly from flush to flush.

Ok, now that I've applied the math to Tryptamine input to Psiloc(yb)in output. Let's apply it to Alpha-Methyl-Tryptamine (AMT) input to Alpha-Methyl-Psiloc(yb)in output. Since AMT weighs 175.25g/mol, 0.25 millimoles would be about 44mg. If 22% was converted into Alpha-Methyl-Psilocin, then that would be about 10mg. Suppose we wanted about 20mg, then we would use twice as much, 88mg AMT, which is available from MBE Tech. This may also be done with DPT and DIPT, which are available from JLF

One more thing I would like to mention. In the cultures that DET was introduced to produce 4-HO-DET and it's phosphate ester, the caps of the shrooms were smaller than the ones that weren't introduced DET, but the spores of them produced same regular size mushrooms. So, DET inhibited the growth of the shrooms some. Also, the usual color change to blue when brused was also changed to a greenish-blue, if I remember right.


[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 28, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90480 - 12/30/99 02:49 AM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Recently, I was doing some studying on chemicals and hormones that may effect plant and mushroom growth and I came across Brassinosteroids. Here is the two references that made me wonder about their use in mushroom growth:

Brassinosteroids. G. Adam, V. Marquardt. Phytochem. 25: 1787 (1986)
Growth-promoting effect of a brassinosteroid in mycelial cultures of the fungus Psilocybe cubensis. J. Gartz, G. Adam, H.-M. Vorbrodt. Naturw. 77: 388 (1990)

I haven't had a chance to check these sources out yet, but the second suggests that this might work. Here are some more sources:

TITLE: Brassinosteroids.
AUTHORS: Adam G; Schmidt J; Schneider B
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institute of Plant Biochemistry, Halle/S., Germany.
SOURCE: Fortschr Chem Org Naturst 1999;78:1-46
CITATION IDS: PMID: 10592760 UI: 20060345

TITLE: Biological effects of brassinosteroids.
SOURCE: Crit Rev Biochem Mol Biol 1999;34(5):339-58
CITATION IDS: PMID: 10565679 UI: 20029409

TITLE: Molecular physiology of brassinosteroids revealed by the analysis of mutants.
AUTHORS: Altmann T
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Max-Planck-Institut fur molekulare Pflanzenphysiologie, Golm, Germany. altmann@mpimp-golm.mpg.de
SOURCE: Planta 1999 Mar;208(1):1-11
CITATION IDS: PMID: 10212999 UI: 99229469

TITLE: Recent advances in brassinosteroid molecular genetics.
AUTHORS: Altmann T
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Max-Planck-Institut fur molekulare Pflanzenphysiologie, Karl-Liebknecht- Strasse 25, 14476 Golm, Germany. altmann@mpimp-golm.mpg.de
SOURCE: Curr Opin Plant Biol 1998 Oct;1(5):378-83
CITATION IDS: PMID: 10066617 UI: 99167776
ABSTRACT: The importance of brassinosteroids (BRs, a specific class of ecdysone- like plant steroids) as essential endogenous regulators of growth and development is demonstrated through a growing number of well characterised Arabidopsis, pea, and tomato mutants deficient in BR biosynthesis or BR response. Thus, a rapid advancement in understanding the molecular genetics of BR biosynthesis and mode of action can be witnessed, which will be further enhanced through the availability of a set of extremely valuable molecular tools for the analysis of the biological function of BRs.

TITLE: A tale of dwarfs and drugs: brassinosteroids to the rescue.
AUTHORS: Altmann T
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Max-Planck-Institut fur molekulare Pflanzenphysiologie, Golm, Germany. altmann@mpimp-golm.mpg.de
SOURCE: Trends Genet 1998 Dec;14(12):490-5
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9865154 UI: 99082673
ABSTRACT: Brassinosteroids (BRs), a specific class of low abundance plant steroids, are capable of eliciting strong growth responses and a variety of physiological changes through exogenous application to plants. Recently, BRs gained general acceptance as important regulators (hormones) of plant growth and development through genetic and molecular identification and characterization of genes involved in BR biosynthesis or response in Arabidopsis, pea and tomato. This major advance in the molecular genetics of BR biosynthesis and mode of action disclosed another case of amazing functional conservation of signalling molecules utilized in plants and animals, and provided a set of extremely valuable tools for the functional analysis of BRs.

TITLE: Synthesis and molecular modeling: related approaches to progress in brassinosteroid research.
AUTHORS: Brosa C; Zamora I; Terricabras E; Soca L; Peracaula R; Rodriguez-Santamarta C
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institut Quimic de Sarria, CETS, Universitat Ramon Llull, Barcelona, Spain. brosa@iqs.url.es
SOURCE: Lipids 1997 Dec;32(12):1341-7
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9438246 UI: 98101143
ABSTRACT: In the field of brassinosteroids, which are potent plant growth regulators, we have developed a quantitative structure-activity relationship study to develop knowledge from a structural point of view and to find out new requirement definitions. This will help identify other suitable active brassinosteroid derivatives with a good activity/synthetic cost ratio for further application in agriculture. The methodology used to achieve this goal represents a multidisciplinary study involving synthesis, molecular modeling calculations, and bioactivity evaluation. The influence of different molecular properties in the bioactivity of a set of synthetic compounds (i.e., molecular electrostatic potential and the ability to form H bonds) is discussed. The molecular electrostatic potential is expressed in terms of the electrostatic Carbo similarity index (CI) between brassinolide (1) and other brassinosteroids. We have found that the electrostatic charges of the functional groups play an important role in the description of the activity, as evidenced by its good correlation with the CI in most cases. Deviation from this rule could be explained by the H bonding abilities of some of these compounds, which we believe may play an essential role in binding to the natural receptors.

TITLE: Recent developments in the field of plant steroid hormones.
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla 92093-0506, USA. tmcmorris@ucsd.edu
SOURCE: Lipids 1997 Dec;32(12):1303-8
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9438241 UI: 98101138
ABSTRACT: Brassinolide and related brassinosteroids are a novel group of steroids which appear to be ubiquitous in plants. There is compelling evidence, particularly from recent genetic studies, that these steroids are essential for normal plant growth and development. Synthesis of brassinosteroids and aspects of their biochemistry are reviewed.

TITLE: Studies on biosynthesis of brassinosteroids.
AUTHORS: Sakurai A; Fujioka S
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institute of Physical and Chemical Research (RIKEN), Saitama 351-01, Japan.
SOURCE: Biosci Biotechnol Biochem 1997 May;61(5):757-62
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9178548 UI: 97321846
ABSTRACT: Biosynthesis of steroidal plant hormones, brassinosteroids, was studied using the cell culture system of Catharanthus roseus. Feeding labeled compounds of possible intermediates to the cultured cells, followed by analyzing the metabolites by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry disclosed the pathways from a plant sterol, campesterol, to brassinolide. There are two pathways, named the early C6-oxidation pathway and late C6-oxidation pathway, both of which would be operating in a wide variety of plants. Recent findings of brassinosteroid- deficient mutants of Arabidopsis and the garden pea by several groups, and the possible blocked steps of the mutants in the biosynthetic pathways are also introduced.

TITLE: Brassinosteroids.
AUTHORS: Fujioka S; Sakurai A
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institute of Physical and Chemical Research (RIKEN), Saitama, Japan.
SOURCE: Nat Prod Rep 1997 Feb;14(1):1-10
CITATION IDS: PMID: 9121728 UI: 97235569

TITLE: Molecular genetic studies confirm the role of brassinosteroids in plant growth and development.
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Horticultural Science, North Carolina State University, Raleigh 27695-7609, USA. steve_clouse@ncsu.edu
SOURCE: Plant J 1996 Jul;10(1):1-8
CITATION IDS: PMID: 8758975 UI: 96314857

TITLE: Plant hormones: brassinosteroids in the spotlight.
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Horticultural Science, North Carolina State University, Raleigh 27695-7609, USA.
SOURCE: Curr Biol 1996 Jun 1;6(6):658-61
CITATION IDS: PMID: 8793287 UI: 96385429
ABSTRACT: Recent studies on dwarf mutants of the model plant Arabidopsis thallana have provided convincing evidence that brassinosteroids-natural plant products similar to animal steroid hormones-are essential for normal plant growth and development.

TITLE: Synthesis of new brassinosteroids with potential activity as antiecdysteroids.
AUTHORS: Brosa C; Nusimovich S; Peracaula R
AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Organic Chemistry, C.E.T.S. Institut Quimic de Sarria, Universitat Ramon Llull, Barcelona, Spain.
SOURCE: Steroids 1994 Aug;59(8):463-7
CITATION IDS: PMID: 7985206 UI: 95076485
ABSTRACT: The synthesis of four new brassinosteroids with 2 beta,3 beta-diol functionality and A/B cis and A/B trans ring junction is reported. These brassinosteroids could present activity as antiecdysteroids.

TITLE: Synthesis of brassinosteroids and relationship of structure to plant growth-promoting effects.
AUTHORS: Thompson MJ; Meudt WJ; Mandava NB; Dutky SR; Lusby WR; Spaulding DW
SOURCE: Steroids 1982 Jan;39(1):89-105
CITATION IDS: PMID: 7080117 UI: 82200325
ABSTRACT: A number of brassinosteroids with and without hydroxyl groups or an alkyl substituent in their side chain were synthesized. The alkyl substituent at C-24 highly influenced the oxidation of the C-22 double bond with osmium tetroxide and, hence the ratio of the 22 beta,23 beta- and 22 alpha,23 alpha-glycolic isomers obtained. Two different bean bioassays used to compare the plant growth-promoting capabilities of these compounds and of brassinolide and its three side chain 22,23-cis- glycolic isomers showed that brassinolide was the most active. The next most active brassinosteroids were generally those with 22 alpha-OH, 23 alpha-OH orientation and a beta-methyl or alpha-ethyl substituent at C- 24. Similarly, of the synthetic precursor tetrahydroxy ketones of the brassinosteroids, those with 22 alpha-OH, 23 alpha-OH orientation (like brassinolide) and an alkyl group at C-24 were also the most active in both bioassays. The results indicate stringent structural features are required for a steroid to induce brassin activity. The structural requirements are: a trans A/B ring system (5alpha-hydrogen), a 6-ketone or a 7-oxa-6-ketone system in ring B, cis alpha-oriented hydroxyl groups at C-2 and C-3, cis hydroxy groups at C-22 and C-23 as well as a methyl or ethyl substituent at C-24.



[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 30, 1999).]

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90481 - 12/29/99 10:50 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

This makes we wonder about the possibilty of using legal mushrooms to smuggle in the fun substances by growing them in the substrate. Perhaps adding dmt to the substrate of some standard edible mushroom and being able to extract/take them. Although dmt might not be possible i just decided to use it as a random example. I understand that this would probably be a very ineffecient way to smuggle because of the fact the mushrooms would probably break down some of the substance but and not extract all of it from the cake but who knows.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90482 - 12/30/99 01:06 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Here are some more sources for information about Brassinosteroids:

CIDtech Research Inc. - Brassinosteroid Supplier

Brassinosteroid Synthesis Group

Other Hormones - Brassinosteroids

A Start At A Comprehensive Theory Of Plant Hormones

Growth Regulators and Hormones

Brassinosteroids: ABS798-Growth and Development

Brassinosteroids Home Page

Brassinosteroids: A New Class of Plant Hormones


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90484 - 01/03/00 06:26 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you find the time to create these posts? Really, it must take for ever to find those links and then attach them.. never mind the endless text... I am amazed. :smile:

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90485 - 01/04/00 05:14 PM (24 years, 3 months ago)

You and so many others, and you've hardly see any of the work that I do. I was pissed today though because I couldn't go to the library, I woke up about an hour before it closes. I probably won't be adding much information until they go back to normal hours.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90486 - 01/29/00 04:52 PM (24 years, 2 months ago)

Ever since I first made this post, I've received many questions from people who didn't understand it and were left confused because they didn't know much chemistry. Well, there isn't much chemistry involved and it's not hard to understand. What most people have trouble understanding is the long compound names in relation to it's structure. If you know what the difference between tryptamine and alpha-methyl-tryptamine (AMT), you'll know the difference between psilocin and alpha-methyl-psilocin (4-HO-AMDMT), and that's basically all it comes down to. If you don't know what the structure looks like, and the properties of these structures then you won't understand the potential usefulness of this process. I'll be the first to admit that if it wasn't for being able to understand the relationship of these names in relation to their structures, I would not know anything about this and this post would not have existed. This is how I began to understand everything, it's all about the structures. If you know the names, and can visualize the structures, you'll be fine. Trust me, it's not hard. I had to refer back several times myself. Here's some of the best sources for structure pictures and also the properties of the substances:

The Lycaeum Graphics Archive - Structures

TiHKAL - Tryptamines i Have Known and Loved Part II

PiHKAL - Phenethylamines i Have Known and Loved Part II


The above links are very useful in understanding the substances described throughout this thread. I included the ChemFinder link because you can search it and find most of the other non-drug compounds that were talked about even though their structures are not that important, but it also gives links for more info about each substance and it's care and such.

I hope that this helps you people out a little...I plan on creating a web page describing the process a little better with graphical representations to make understanding a little easier.


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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90487 - 01/30/00 05:13 AM (24 years, 2 months ago)


Wow... What more can I say... I'm impressed.

I'm very interested in your ideas, and would like to know more, however I find following this thread extremely difficult as ther eis so much technical information that's goes straight over my head.
I know this is a big ask, but would there be any chance of writing the main information up into a document that's easier to follow, and either putting it on a web site, or offering it via email ?



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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90488 - 09/30/00 09:25 AM (23 years, 6 months ago)

Just thought this was intersting and wanted to bring back up again. :biggrin:

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90489 - 09/30/00 11:08 AM (23 years, 6 months ago)

Sasha Shulgin [sp?, author of TIHKAL, PIHKAL] made a brief statement during a lecture last summer about having boosted psilocybin content of cubies to 3% by adding DMT to [either substrate or casing, can't remember].
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence from a true chemical wizard, he didn't mention anything about affected yields, etc.

Hmmmmm, I wonder what would happen if you replaced timothy hay cob with phalaris :smile:

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90490 - 09/30/00 08:39 PM (23 years, 6 months ago)

PsiliPharm...so do you think 5-HTP would bring up the amount of psylocybin in the mushrooms? How much?

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Re: Ayahuasca Substrate
    #90491 - 10/01/00 10:28 AM (23 years, 6 months ago)

I just read here somewhere about a chilli powder and water mix being sprayed on the casing. It is said to iritate the shroom and so it makes more Psilocin. I haven't tryed this yet, but it sounds easyer than the stuff above. Has anyone tryed it?

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