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Anonymous |
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Ok, this could be used to the advantage of the Dissociative/Tryptamine Combination. Suppose you were to put a Dissociative such as DXM into the substrate creating a mushroom with a synergist combination. Check out the "Dissociatives and Tryptamines" topic for more info:
http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000353.html -PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 10, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I have made some similar but different posts like this one on two other BB's, DMT World and The Hive. Just in case you want to know what someone might have to say on those boards, I am including a link here:
http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000203.html and -PsiliPharm, Youjutsu, and Nemesis
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Anonymous |
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Well it turns out that the 5-position may be too close to the 4-position to create 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT but you may be able to make 4-MeO-DMT with 4-MeO-Tryptamine in the substrate and you'll probably also end up with some partial methylation meaning 4-MeO-NMT may be present also. Other interesting compounds may be made with Mescaline-containing cactii with Dopamine analogs, check out The Hive BB above for more info.
Well, I've decided to provide you with some other threads on here talking about putting drugs into the substrate. Here they are: 5-HTP in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000383.html Additives in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000359.html Salvia in Substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000382.html Get your shrooms HIGH? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000377.html Adding Drugs to Substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000368.html Vitamin C in substrate? http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000364.html Ketamine to substrate http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000376.html Indole instead of Tryptamine http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000337.html PssionFlower http://www.shroomery.org/ubbnoncgi/Forum4/HTML/000312.html
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![]() rogue DMT elf ![]() ![]() ![]() Registered: 08/08/99 Posts: 16,381 Loc: Crawling on the Last seen: 10 years, 9 months |
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dude, you are a crazy man.
![]() ------------------ -------------------- GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil ![]()
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Anonymous |
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As most of you may know DMT is quickly converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) in shrooms alot quicker than Tryptamine and plus DMT is also fun by itself, combined with mushrooms, combined with beta-carbolines, or combined with both. Well for those of you who need to know of some good sources for these DMT and beta-carboline containing plants, here they are:
Timberwolf Gardens (Fly Agaric, HBWR, San Pedro, Yohimbe, etc.) http://members.home.net/alister/ The Basement Shaman (Salvia, Yage, Datura, Live Plants, Herbs, Spores) http://www.basementshaman.com/ Ho-Ti Nursery (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.ho-tinursery.com/ Native Habitat (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.nativehabitat.com/plants.html Sage Wisdom Salvia Shop (SALVIA DIVINORUM!) http://salvia.lycaeum.org/salviashop.html Logee's Greenhouse (Ethnobotanical Plants http://logees.com/www/default.html Pure Land Ethnobotanicals (Seeds, Herbs, Extracts, 5-MeO-DMT) http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/ [TAC] Ethnobotanicals (Rare Seeds and Herbs) http://www.tacethno.com/ Marijuana Alternatives (Salvia and other Smoking Blends) http://www.herbsmoke.com/ Peruvian Journey (Seeds and Plants) http://www.peruvian-journey.com/ Homestead Book Company (Mushroom Kits and Books) http://www.homesteadbook.com/ Mushroom Magic (The name says it all!) http://mushroommagic.com/ Herbal-Shaman (Herbs, Extracts, Teas, & Smokes) http://www.herbal-shaman.com/ Xingu Dawn (Ethnobotanicals) http://www.ethnobotany.net/motif.htm Psilocybe Fanaticus (Spores, Mushroom Info) http://www.fanaticus.com/ Smart Publications (Smart Drug Books) http://www.smart-publications.com/ Climax Online Smartshop (Peyote, Shrooms, Yohimbe, Herbs, etc.) http://www.climax.net/ El Mercurio (Spanish Entheogen Site) http://www.mercurialis.com/ Biogenesis Labratories (GHB Products) http://www.biogenesis.co.za/ Companion Plants (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.frognet.net/companion_plants/index.html Lambo Seeds (Plants including Iboga) http://www.aros.net/~lambo/order/order.htm Fungi Perfecti Online (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.fungi.com/ Mushroom People (Mushroom Growing Supplies) http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/mpmisc.html Psilocybe Mushrooms (Psilocybe Mushroom Info & Spore Prints) http://www.stainblue.com/ Smart Botanicals (Mushroom Spores/Supplies, Herbs, Seeds, Etc.) http://www.smart.nl/ Gnostic Garden (Seeds, Plants, etc.) http://www.gnosticgarden.ndirect.co.uk/ Kava Kauai (Salvia and Kava Kava) http://www.kauaisource.com/ Theatrum Botanicum (Herbs, Ethnobotanicals & Entheogens) http://www.hepting.com/thebot/ Amazing Nature (Mushroom Spores, Herbs, Seeds, Cacti, Etc.) http://amazing-nature.com/ Legendary Ethnobotanical Resources (Herbs, Plants & Seeds) http://www.ethnobotany.com/ Shaman Australis Botanicals (Ethnobotanical Plants) http://www.shaman-australis.com/ Abbey Ethnobotanicals http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/shanti/index.html.htm Elixier Entheobotanic (German) http://www.snafu.de/~elixier/ Alphaware NZ (Legal Highs Supplier) http://www.alphaware.co.nz/index.html Conscious Dreams Website http://www.consciousdreams.com/ Bolder Exotics (Smoking Supplies, Etc.) http://www.bolderexotics.com/ Smart Bomb (Smart Drugs, Vitamins, Etc.) http://www.smartbomb.com/index.html Life Enhancement (Supplements, 5HTP, Etc.) http://www.life-enhancement.com/ Natural Technologies (L-Tryptophan, Etc.) http://www.biochemicals.com/ DREAM MAKER (Japanese, AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-DIPT) http://www.dream-m.com/ JLF Catalog (Just about anything Entheogenic, THE BEST!) http://www.jlfcatalog.com MBE Tech (AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, DPT, GHB, etc.) http://www.mbetech.net This was added much later to the list but I figured it was worth mentioning, but I don't think anyone from here will be able to buy from them. BIOSYNTH (Very Professional, Tryptamines, Beta-Carbolines, Etc.) http://www.biosynth.com Another List of Vendor Resources with Reviews: Also for more reading and a list of plants containing DMT/Beta-Carbolines: And if you don't know about a certain species that a vendor offers, just search for it on a search engine along with key words like "hallucinogen" or "psychedelic" or "drug". One good multi-search engine is http://www.dogpile.com and there are others. Always know as much as you can about a plant before experimenting with it. For information on specific tryptamines and their effects which includes DMT, DIPT, DPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), 5-MeO-DIPT, Ibogaine, Beta-Carbolines, ETC.: TIHKAL - Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml Also, for further reference on Phenethylamines: PIHKAL - Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved Laters, PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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Ok, I've come up with an experiment that I would like some people with good knowledge of tryptamines and growing mushrooms.
A Comparison of Additives to Substrate and How They Effect The Trip Additives: Tryptamine HCL (JLF Catalog) Of the chemicals listed above, the ones that are of the most immediate interest are: AMT - May Produce 4-HO-AMDMT! (Never Been Produced!) In order to truely get a clear picture of how the trip is enhanced one must have experience with shrooms enhanced with Tryptamine HCL or DMT and make a comparison on how the trip is altered. Reason: To make sure that the drug inputed into the substrate isn't just being converted into 4-HO-DMT instead of transformed into a new drug. Same strains, methods of growing and ingestion must be compared. If taken in combination with another drug, please specify what. But in order to get a sound comparison, the fewer outside influences the better. If one thing is done for one trip, the same must be done for the other. So that way if the trip is significantly altered then the precense of another drug must be the case. I would read the entries for the above input and output products in TIHKAL: If you haven't already enhanced shrooms with Tryptamine HCL, then start with that. Then move to something else. DIPT is the most likely canidate for this project because by itself it is ok but when converted to 4-HO-DIPT it becomes GREAT! and it's speed of action will probably be noticed alot easier. Something that has to go into consideration is how much is actually being used by each shroom. Suppose you want 20mg of 4-OH-DIPT per shroom and there are 5 shrooms per cake. (I am just guessing here.) Would 100mg DIPT get you the 20mg a piece or not? Probably not, so take that into consideration, but 100mg DIPT may be a good starting point. The thing that I'm worried about is whether or not you have to use the same amount of Tryptamine as you would DIPT to be an accurate comparison. If you choose to use DPT which is pretty good by itself and easier to obtain I would suggest to expect the same 20mg per shroom as a starting point. Personally, I think AMT is the grand daddy of them all but less predictable. 5-MeO-DMT may not work due to the 5-MeO being too close. Also, any 6 or 7 substituted tryptamines may work such as 6-fluoro-tryptamine (may be psychedelic by itself!) to produce something like 4-HO-6-F-DMT. If anyone knows of any good starting materials especially alpha, beta, 2, 4, 6, 7, and N-substituted material that may be interesting to use and have a source for it. Please post a message. If anyone decides to attempt this and would like to e-mail me instead of posting the report, check out my profile above for my e-mail address and my ICQ #. Also, if anything is used other than a simple tryptamine such as Beta-carbolines, Ibogaine, DXM, or anything else, try and compare taking the untreated shrooms with the substance along with it with taking the treated shrooms without taking the substance along with it. I hope that didn't confuse anybody. Oh here we go: Shrooms w/o DXM in Substrate taken with DXM Basically, if the Shrooms do contain DXM after treating them then they should be somewhat similar to taking untreated shrooms along with DXM. Both should be compared to taking untreated Shrooms alone. And with Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines, maybe their structures are altered by the process since they contain the indole structure they also maybe metabolized by the mushroom and converted to 4-HO-DMT. So both Tryptamine HCL comparison and the above explained comparison may have to be done. Try to keep a scientific aspect of it, dosages and everything would be great. But, of course, any report is good, no matter how scientific it was made. Also, remember Ibogaine and Beta-Carbolines are both MAOI's and Dietary restrictions apply, foods containing tyramine could be harmful or just contribute to nausea. All contributions are welcome. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Cool experiment, once I have my agar/rye tek down I will try incorporating Salvia, Phalaris (DMT), and Trichocereus species (mescaline) into the casing substrate, considering I already grow all of them. Maybe I'll blend everything together to try and make a "super-mushroom."
![]() -rEvolutionist
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Anonymous |
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Well with Salvia and DMT your method of ingestion may be better off changed. Maybe drying and grinding the mushrooms up and smoking it, and you may or may not use a medium, e.g. marijuana. I dunno if you've tried this already or not with regular untreated mushrooms first. I suggest you start with DMT then move to Salvia and on to San Pedro or whatever.
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Hmm, if slightly heating up shrooms in the drying process can lower their potency, wouldn't smoking them completely destroy the psy-chemicals? I've heard that smoking shrooms is utterly useless, have you tried it with good results? I am not a chemistry major but wouldn't the DMT/Salvinorin be assimilated by the mushroom into a new compound, possibly one that needn't be smoked? Just a thought.
-rEvolutionist
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Anonymous |
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Well DMT will be converted to 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin), and some DMT will probably be still in the shroom which would be inactive orally. And I don't believe Salvinorin A would be effected by the shroom but it might and I doubt that it'll be active orally. Salvinorin A is not absorbed the same way as shrooms. The only way to take it by mouth is to hold it in your mouth and suck on it, basically. Unless you want to suck on a shroom I suggest smoking it. I believe that the potency is decreased by the SLOW heating process but something as quick as burning it in a bowl of a bong is not going to pyrolyze all of the 4-HO-DMT. Of course you can try the oral method and see what you get but I doubt you get what you expected. Try both ways. There may be a pleasant surprise somewhere to be found.
Ok, now this is just a general post to anyone who is interested. I've created another thread on Lycaeum's main forums: Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors! at http://forums.lycaeum.org in the Chemical Allies section. -Nemesis [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 18, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I have found some other threads on The Hive BB that looks interesting:
Biosynthesis of alkaloids: metabolic pathways http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001331.html homogentisate -> 2C-H http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/001354.html Alternative Doping with DMSO http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum1/HTML/002617.html Genetic THC Synthesis? http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000327.html Shikimate Precursors to Hallucinogens http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000500.html Methcathinone via rotten beef http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000534.html FMAN is talking about beetle-shit? Help me out Drone,..... http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000623.html Biosynthesis of 1-(2,5-Dihydroxyphenyl)propan-2-ol http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000624.html Biosynth. of benzodiazepines...help http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000642.html Methylamine from yer friendly Arthrobacter synephrinum http://hive.lycaeum.org/ubb_board/Forum5/HTML/000600.html On DMT World: Biosynthesis of 4-OH tryptamines http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000159.html Enzymatic Decarboxylation http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000177.html Transition States http://dmt.lycaeum.org/ncgi/Forum6/HTML/000188.html
Kitchen Culture Kit Home Page http://www.home.turbonet.com/kitchenculture/ I was told not to buy their product. I just figured that these might be of interest to anyone who is really considering this. -Nemesis
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Anonymous |
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Well, I've just received some interesting information that may be very helpful when it comes to this topic. J Potter replied to my post on The Lycaeum Chemical Allies Forum about the "Biosynthesis of NEW tryptamine and phenethylamine drugs via substituted percursors!" Well this is what he had to say:
When grown in liquid cultures, psilocybe cubensis do not produce psilocin or psilocybin. If this is because of a lack of precursers, then it would be possible to add a precurser (ie DET, etc.) to the liquid culture and have the mushroom produce only the desired Tryptamine. No need for a complicated extraction from the psilocin/cybin usually produced. However, if the nature of the liquid culture actually inhibits the mushroom's metabolism, then this will not work. I have a ref. on this subject, but I have not as of yet looked it up. -Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited November 16, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I found some good article sources that help explain this process a little more:
TITLE: Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe. TITLE: Baeocystin in psilocybe, conocybe and paraeolus. TITLE: The relationship of carbon and nitrogen nutrition of Psilocybe baeocystis to the production of psilocybin and its analogs. TITLE: Biosynthesis of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis. 1. Incorporation of labelled tryptophan and tryptamine. TITLE: The fine structure of Psilocybe quebecensis. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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This is from:
-Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of psilocybin in submerged culture of Psilocybe cubensis" LLoydia 27:53-63, 1964 Which I mentioned before, I figured it would be useful for anyone interested. Pellets of Psilocybe cubensis produced in medium no. 1 [ammonium succinate (1 g), Glycine (9 g), Glucose (5 g), yeast extract (.5 g), KH2PO4 (.1 g), thiamine hydrochloride (.003 g), (NH4)6Mo7O24-4H2O (.05 mg), ZnSO4-7H2O (.3 mg), MnCl2-4H2O (.35 mg), FeSO4-7H2O (2.5 mg), CuSO4-5H2O (0.5 mg), MgSO4-7H2O (0.5 g), distilled water, to make (1.0 L), adjust to pH 5.5 with hydrochloric acid] accumulated psilocybin but not psilocin. Maximum production of the former compound occurred on the seventh day (0.52 per cent, dry weight of mycelium), whereas growth attained its maximum (average 112.6 mg, dry weight of mycelium per 30 mL of medium in a 125 mL flask) on the ninth day.
-PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 14, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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What????????????
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Anonymous |
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Your question is going to have to be more specific than just WHAT?!?!
I don't know what to say to that! -PsiliPharm
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![]() Still kicking ![]() ![]() Registered: 03/01/01 Posts: 8,004 Loc: THAT MAKES ME BETTER THAN YOU Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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PORK!
------------------ -------------------- ![]() BigUpRadio WorldReggaeShow DreaderThanDread - Listen! (druqs said) don't get arsey, just get RC. ![]()
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Anonymous |
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I bet you thought this thread was dead, well it's not! I've got more information to share! This all comes from:
Mack, J.P.G. and Slaytor, M. (1979), Indolethylamine N-Methyltransferases of Phalaris tuberosa, Purification and Properties. Phytochem, 18, 1921. "The specificities of the amine substrates to accept methyl groups using the step 3 preparation are listed in Table 5. 5-Methyltryptamine and 5-MeOT are methylated at the same rate as T. Other substituents in the indole nucleus cause methylation to proceed at a lower rate, e.g. 6-methoxytryptamine is methylated at 30% of the rate at which tryptamine is methylated. MT and 5-MeOMT are methylated at ca 2.5 times the tryptamine rate, reflecting the higher levels of SIM activity compared to PIM in the preparation. Phenylethylamines are methylated at a lower rate than the tryptamines. The ratio of activity towards N-methylphenylethylamine and phenylethylamine is 3:1, about the same as that found for the corresponding tryptamine substrates. Thus it seems that both PIM and SIM have the ability to accept a benzene ring instead of the normal indole nucleus. Substitution of the phenyl ring by bulky methoxy groups does not change the ability to methylate these compounds. The methoxy groups would occupy the space normally occupied by the benzene ring of the indole nucleus,and thus they offer no steric hindrance for binding to PIM. None of the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines, the ring closed analogues of the tryptamines were methylated, i.e. the ethylamine side chain must be in a position othe than that found in the tetrahydro-beta-carbolines. Consistent with this is the fact that the tetrahydroisoquinolines were also not methylated. The rate of methylation of histamine,w hich is much less hydrophobic than phenylethylamine, although having a similar charge at pH 8.5 and being only slightly smaller, was 100 times less. Also given was a chart, here: T=Tryptamine and P=Phenethylamine T - 100 The highest activity that they state as being inactive is 0.93% which doesn't make 4-OHP very active if at all. Basically, what all this means is that one may be able to make some new phenethylamines with this enzyme which is present in Psilocybe shrooms. Although, Dimethylphenethylamines aren't that active not all of the phenethylamines will be dimethylated, some will be partially methylated producing N-methylphenethylamines. The only good use of this information that I can think of right now is that one may be able to produce N,N-Dimethylcathinone and N-methylcathinone with this enzyme. Well, if the hydroxylation enzyme works on phenethylamines then the possible products of adding cathinone to the substrate would be 6-HO-DiMeCAT and 6-HO-N-MeCAT and the phosphate esters of both of these. The reason I said that cathinone is a better phenethylamine-like substance to use is because N,N-dimethylcathinone is only 1.6-fold less potent than N-methylcathinone whereas N,N-dimethylamphetamine is 7-fold less potent than N-methylamphetamine. I did not receive all of this information myself. The reference and excerpt given above was e-mailed to me from Teonanacatl on DMT World. Here is his website which has some extraction and biosynthetic information on it: www.indole.org He also started a new thread on DMT World about this, here: INMP - Resurrection of 4-hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Youjustsu) Something else that he had mentioned in his e-mail was that he believed that all N-methyltransferases required SAM which I asked whether or not one might be able to spead up the conversion process by providing SAM in the substrate? That question is still unanswered. -PsiliPharm
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![]() addict Registered: 02/08/00 Posts: 383 |
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I am speachless...I am impressed...I am jealous...I should have learned more chemistry in school, dam I don`t understand the half, but if you can explain simply what you have done to create better shroomz, please keep posting
I will do my homework but I am not sure if I want my shroomz to more potent, but maybe they should work longer and with a stronger up high...
I am still impressed -------------------- i'm back
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Anonymous |
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Well that is exactly why I've provided all the links...most of the information can be found through those links. You can do one of many things to either potentiate, raise, or alter the chemicals contents of the shrooms with these methods described above. The thing that I'm interested in the most is altering the chemical contents of the shrooms to provide an altered trip. Something new! I'm not the first person to think of this. But I am one of the first people to elaborate on how this may be used and provide theories of where this might lead to. If one knows the metabolic pathway then one may be able to alter the chemical that is produced by providing an altered percursor. There was something I wanted to add to this thread but I forgot what it was. Oh well, it'll come to me, later. Thanks for the compliments and do your research. Tis not that hard, especially if a high school student can do it.
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Here, I would like to point out this thread even that most people have already seen it:
The reason I decided to add it is because I wanted to say how it could relate to this thread. If cayenne peppers really do boost potency some way then they would raise the level of alkaloids produced in these experiments and theories outlined above. Please, anybody, if you attempt any of the ideas above then please post your findings. Oh I just remembered what I was going to add to this thread. In the Tryptamine FAQ, 5- and 6-fluorotryptophans were listed as being potentially psychedelic. Since tryptophan is cheaper and less likely to be watched then you might be able to convert it to one of the previous compounds and then introducing it to the mushroom. The Tryptophan Decarboxylase enzyme will turn it into 5- or 6-fluorotryptamine and then on to 4-HO-5-F-DMT or 4-HO-6-F-DMT. That is if the other enzymes will accept those compounds, the 5-fluorotryptophan may be a problem with the 4-hydroxylation enzyme since it is so close to that position, but that is only a theory which I hope to be disproven. I suggest 7-fluorotryptophan to produce 4-HO-7-F-DMT, but since 5-MeO-7-F-DMT is less potent than 5-MeO-DMT then it might also be less potent but then again it could be more interesting. Less potent isn't always bad, new effects and experiences are sometimes present. One more thing, I think that this experiment should be done with my Genetically Mutated Mushrooms which could be applied Psilocybe Cubensis or any Other Tryptamine-carrying Shrooms. Many interesting species' and strains can be obtained from:
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 06, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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I found the names of the enzymes responsible for the production of Psilocybin in this paper which is a very interesting paper:
"Attempted Molecular Cloning of Enzymes from the Psilocybin Biosynthesis Pathway in Psilocybe tampanensis" http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/gregory/1042/index.html This diploma thesis gives many references on psilocybin biosynthesis, psilocybin detection, mushroom culturing, and molecular biology methods. This was found in the post Psilocybin biosynthesis by Lilienthal. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I was just looking for various subsituted tryptamines and tryptophans on www.chemacx.com for use in shrooms and other tryptamine-producing organisms or even for synthesis. I left out Tryptamine, Tryptophan, and their 5-Hydroxy and N-Acetyl analogs with a few exceptions. I'm sure, by now, you are able to figure out what the products of these chemicals used in such an experiment as the one discussed above. Also, all prices are discounted through an account with www.chemacx.com. So these prices are slightly lower than what one would pay without an account with www.chemacx.com. Here is the list:
7-Methyl-tryptamine
TCI
ICN Biomedical Research Products
INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc. ICN Biomedical Research Products
INDOFINE Chemical Company, Inc. Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
Acros Organics ICN Biomedical Research Products
ICN Biomedical Research Products
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![]() newbie Registered: 05/11/01 Posts: 187 Last seen: 23 years, 7 months |
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PsiliPharm, was there a question in all of this or were you simply advertising for as many pharmacutical companies as you possibly could? Really though, I understand your ideas, but it comes to a point when you have to ask yourself, if you have all of this knowedge of chemistry, then why not just synthesize psilocybin, and try out new drug cocktails? What does any one of these chemicals have anything to do with mushroom cultivation, and how could these chemicals help anyone on this board? I don't really know why I am asking you this, but probably it is due to the fact that of the 24 repies to this topic previous to my own, 17 of those were from you. Basically, what I am asking you is, why are you posting this stuff? Everyone and anyone can find this stuff out very easily with any search engine, and most of the people on this board probably dont understand 10% of what you are saying.
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![]() addict Registered: 02/08/00 Posts: 383 |
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go on Psilli I anm saving it on my harddisk and someday I`ll try it...
to Dan this place was known as THE EYPERIMENTATION STATION and I love this thread go on Psilli
-------------------- i'm back
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![]() Clyster ![]() ![]() Registered: 07/12/99 Posts: 4,805 Loc: On the Brink of |
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Psilipharm- I don't think it would be wise to ingest a tryptamine halide. Chlorine, flourine, bromine... these are NOT chemicals that I would want in my body. Another point, regurgitation usually implies a lack of knowledge. Not all this shit you're spewing out is good. Let me put it this way: TRYPTAMINES=GOOD PHENYLETHYLAMINES=BAD. Another thing, if you're going to list a chemical, use the proper notations. For example, SO4 is not the same as SO4. That said, DIPT is probably one of the stronger additives you can put in the substrate. Although it can be expensive, it is MUCH stronger than DMT-based chemicals (i.e. psilocybin, psilocin, etc...) I'm spent. ------------------
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous |
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Ok, the entire basis of this is to produce NEW drugs and NEW experiences. True, I've gotten away from the original topic a little bit. Originally, I was posting this because I heard that the shrooms would retain the drugs provided in the substrate and therefore the trip would be altered because the shrooms will contain more compounds such as harmaline if it was provided in the substrate. Some say that it would be broken down into something that the shroom can use and some say that it would remain in the mushroom. Well whenever I found out that the actual chemical structure of the compound provided may be altered by the enzymes in the mushroom. That is when I posted all of the chemicals above and their prices, they are available and they may be used to produce new Psilocin/Psilocybin analogs. I'M NOT ADVERTISING FOR ANYONE! Just providing sources, to make the lives of everyone who is thinking about attempting this experiment easier. To give you an example on how one of the above chemicals may be used, 6-Fluoro-tryptamine could be used in the substrate/growing media of the shrooms to produce 6-Fluoro-Psilocin/Psilocybin also known as 4-HO-6-F-DMT. 6-F-AMT was pointed out to be potentially psychedelic and 5-F-AMT is a MAOI with antidepressent-like effects. I would like to point out that halogenated tryptamines/tryptophans are highly poisonous. As described here:
http://www.mysteriousuniverse.com/news/bio801.html The product may not be but you don't know what amount of it wasn't converted. So when dealing with these compounds, one may need to do some sort of chromatography method to detect and separate the different compounds. As described in the link above, mutations are also likely to occur with these compounds or any compound for that matter. The shrooms are forced to react to the conditions that surround them, some shrooms may not grow as well with these chemicals, but they are likely to adapt. Also, personally I like tryptamines better than phenethylamines but since phenethylamines are liked by many people and since they can be effected by the enzymes in Psilocybe mushrooms, I figured I should mention the possibilities. Another thing, I copied and pasted that excerpt from the article about the submerged culture which lacked subscripts in the molecular formulas. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like going back and typing the html code required. For the most part, it is the same. Plus, anyone who knows anything about chemistry would be able to read that for what it is. Ok, one more thing. DIPT is actually not that good of a substance by itself but 4-HO-DIPT and 5-MeO-DIPT are! Which 4-HO-DIPT is what I'm trying to achieve using shrooms as the medium for hydroxylation at the 4-position. Now that is said, I have one more thing to say: READ THIS THREAD AS IF IT WAS A BOOK, BEGINNING TO END! Also, CHECK OUT THE LINKS TO OTHER SITES AND THREADS because they help explain this a little easier and have different examples. Only the basics are repeated and most are taylored for the specific bulletin board. I'm going to re-state the NEW purpose of this thread: The purpose is to make NEW compounds, not OLD ones such as DMT, DPT, AMT, DIPT, Psilocin/Psilocybin, etc. Keeping that in mind, there is some uncertainty involved in producing these NEW compounds since many of them have never been synthesized, let alone experimented on a living thing. One should be capable of identifying the compounds produced and possibly isolate them from the other compounds. The truth is that the biosynthesis process makes this easy for anyone who's capable of growing mushrooms and handling the chemicals involved. Be safe, make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. Ok, I would like to comment on something Dan said. Why would I want to synthesize Psilocin/Psilocybin when shrooms do all the work for me? That is the entire point of this thread, biosynthesis is easier than chemical synthesis and cheaper too. -Youjutsu
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Anonymous |
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Ok, I'm curious does anyone have a synthesis for 4,5-methylenedioxy-tryptamine? It may be interesting to introduce it into shrooms to see if the 4,5-methylenedioxy will remain intact and produce 4,5-methylenedioxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine!
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I thought I might post some links to some interesting mushroom growing and tissue culture sites:
Growing Mushrooms With Hydrogen Peroxide Plant Tissue Culture for Home Gardeners Plant Cell, Tissue and Organ Culture - An International Journal on the Cell Biology of Higher Plants Plant Tissue Culture Research at the University of Minnesota The International Association For Plant Tissue Culture (IAPTC) Of course, there are many more sources and I may provide them later. This is just some places to start looking. DOGPILE is a good multi-engine search engine that I use quite often to find some of my links. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Ok, there seems to be many people on here using 5-hydroxy-tryptophan (5-HTP) in their substrates. Well this made me curious as to what the actual product of this is. Well the Tryptophan Decarboxylase will obviously convert it to 5-hydroxy-tryptamine (5-HT) and the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) N-methyltransferase will convert that into 5-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine and 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Bufotenine). Now, there is some controversy over whether the 5-hydroxy stays or goes and whether the 4-hydroxy is attatched while the 5-hydroxy is attatched producing 4,5-dihydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine because of the Indolethylamine (Tryptamine) 4-Monooxygenase. Another questionable step is with the enzyme which creates the phosphate ester of 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) which is called Psilocybin. The enzyme is called Psilocin-O-phosphotransferase but I think it should be called 4-hydroxytryptamine-O-phosphotransferase or something like that since many 4-hydroxy-T's will be altered by this enzyme. The question is whether or not it might confuse 5-HO-DMT (Bufotenine) as being 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) and produce the phosphate ester of it and if 4,5-DiHO-DMT is the most abundant product then does it do the same to both positions or just one and which one? Someone needs to identify the products of 5-substituted-T's in the substrate since the position is so close to the 4-position, the enzymes may get confused or have trouble working around it.
-PsiliPharm
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![]() Skeptic ![]() Registered: 08/27/99 Posts: 105 Loc: Georgia Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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Wow, a very academic discussion. Sort of a PsiliPharm research paper.. very valuable.. . thanks... but the question remains: if I put some of these "nutrients" into my substrate or mycelium culture, will it ultimately actually increase the potency of the mature mushroom? Does anybody have experimental evidence of that?
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Anonymous |
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Yes, you're making the shrooms more potent or atleast significantly altering the trip by producing new chemicals. Potency isn't a very good measure of the quality of a trip. For example, the pyr-T's talked about in TIHKAL are more potent than DMT but are definitely not more fun. The idea is to find something more fun than Psilocin/Psilocybin or just something that is different and interesting. For example, AMT may produce the Alpha-Methyl analog of Psilocin/Psilocybin (4-HO-AMDMT) which will probably be more potent or just longer lasting. I've given several sources for evidence of this probability. It basically depends on what "nutrients" you're thinking about using.
-PsiliPharm
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Ok, I decided to re-post something from 5-HTM (Serotonin) that D'Gatz posted:
"In Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, approximately 22% of labeled tryptamine was incorporated into psilocybin. The addition of tryptamine hydrochloride to substrate increases yield of psilocybin in dried mushrooms from 0.01-0.2% to 3.3%. (Gartz 1989) (Stamets 1996). The rest of the entry just goes on to describe how to fruit; casing, etc. Anyway, the reference to Gartz is: Gartz, J.; Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis; Planta Medica (1989) 55: 249-250 Of course, I would like to make some possible corrections and ask some questions that some people may need to think about. First off, I think the 3.3% is actually Psilocin not Psilocybin but Psilocybin is probably also increased. In fact, about 0.01%-0.8% of Psilocybin is probably produced. The Psilocin/Psilocybin ratio should probably remain the same. Also, how many grams of tryptamine is 25 millimoles? I think it is 4g? And how many grams of shrooms will 10 grams of substrate produce? That way we know about how many grams of alkaloids is produced. The reason why this post and these questions are somewhat important to me is because mathmatically it would allow me to determine how much of these other additives to use and how much is produced. -PsiliPharm
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I decided to post some articles I've found that might prove useful in many ways, such as, detection, analysis, storage, and various other procedures for further understanding and learning:
TITLE: Analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in Psilocybe subcubensis Guzman by ion mobility spectrometry and gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. TITLE: [The forensic chemical study of psilocybine-containing fungi] TITLE: Strategies for the capillary electrophoretic separation of indole alkaloids in Psilocybe semilanceata. TITLE: Presence of phenylethylamine in hallucinogenic Psilocybe mushroom: possible role in adverse reactions. TITLE: Determination of psilocybin in Psilocybe semilanceata by capillary zone electrophoresis. TITLE: An aqueous-organic extraction method for the isolation and identification of psilocin from hallucinogenic mushrooms. TITLE: Qualitative and quantitative determinations of hallucinogenic components of psilocybe mushrooms by reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography. TITLE: Variation of psilocybin and psilocin levels with repeated flushes (harvests) of mature sporocarps of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer. TITLE: Quantitative analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in psilocybe baeocystis (Singer and Smith) by high-performance liquid chromatography and by thin-layer chromatography. For storage of mushrooms, I suggest honey. It's been done that way since biblical times (manna?) and seems to work. Also, extraction of the alkaloids may be done using ethanol or methanol which is the choice of Gartz as shown here: http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/extract.psilocin Also, these are some things that should be taken into consideration in trying to preserve your mushrooms: http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Tryptamines/Psilocybian/puerto/mushroom-preserve.html http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info5.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info6.shtml I'm just trying to provide ya with the best sources of information and if anyone has anything to add, do so. -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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I just made a very interesting post that may prove to be useful in the many biosynthesis experiments that were described previously in this thread. Here is that post:
5,000 Hz Frequencies To Boost Absorbtion and Growth! -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Maybe this is a stupid idea buuuuut: "lares" 5-HTP is 5-hydroxytryptophan and 5-HT (seratonin) is 5-hydroxytryptamine" ... I was wondering what putting a Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor (S.S.R.I.) like Prozac or Paxil into substrate or directly onto the pins or shrooms or what!!! Would this be worth a try or totally uninformed stupidity?
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Anonymous |
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Truthfully, I would have to say, "Uninformed Stupidity," but don't worry, not long ago I would have probably said the same thing or something similar. But then again, you never know what may happen. Doubtful, that anything will, the structures are too far different from each other. Tryptamine looks nothing like Fluoxetine (Prozac) and many similar structures are uneffected by the enzymes, what's to say that something as different as Prozac is going to be effected. The tag SSRI is due to how it acts on the receptors in your brain. Tryptamines are agonists and SSRI's are antagonists, so to speak. They're almost like complete opposites. SSRI's will cause trips to be less profound and not so great but it'll possibly prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA (Ecstasy) and other similar phenethylamines that have neurotoxic effects on the Serotonin (5-HT) receptors. It'll also hinder the good effects of MDMA, if taken on a regular basis before the MDMA trip. So I imagine taking an SSRI after a MDMA trip along with some 5-HTP. I'm still learning Neuropharmacology, so I'm not exactly positive if this works, but alot of people have talked about it on Forums, BBs, and Newsgroups like this one for a while now. Also, one of the ways that helped me understand the differences in the structures of these compounds was through Chemfinder. Often if I didn't know what a substance looked like, I went here.
-PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]
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![]() old hand Registered: 08/02/99 Posts: 528 Last seen: 23 years, 5 months |
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PsiliPharm, complete opposites? You're using the wrong terminology. Protagonist and antagonist, like hero and villian. 'agonist' has no meaning.
------------------
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Anonymous |
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Obviously, you don't know anything about neuropharmacology. I'm not going to pretend like I know everything, but I know this:
Antagonists: drugs that block or inhibit postsynaptic effects Here is the source: Also, now that I've read this site, I realize that a re-uptake inhibitor is actually an agonist. So I'm not sure if a SSRI will help prevent the neurotoxic effects of MDMA but it's still possible. -PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 21, 1999).]
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I've recently been informed that the 4-hydroxylation enzyme is not specific to what is on the ethylamine chain such as the alpha-methyl in AMT. Which, I was pretty sure of but not absolutely sure. So it is absolutely definite that 4-hydroxy-alpha,N,N-trimethyltryptamine (4-HO-TMT, 4-HO-AMDMT, Alpha-Methyl-Psilocin) will be produced if AMT is added to the substrate. Of course, the phosphorylation enzyme will make it a more stable compound. So would it be possible to increase the phosphorylation of the product by including some kind of phosphate into the substrate?
-PsiliPharm
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Here's what Bob Wallace from www.promind.com had to say about detecting and isolating these compounds using chromatography, I suggested TLC (Thin-Layer Chromatography):
You might be able to get a hit or two with TLC, but for any kind of The huge problem here is getting the reference compound. Sure, -PsiliPharm
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I would like to make a correction at this time...In one of the previous posts, the last post on the first page, I quoted a quote from a post that D'Gatz made on another thread. Well a simple mistake was made, not by me, but he said that 25 millimoles of tryptamine was used, but it was actually 0.25 millimoles of tryptamine. Which means instead of 4g of tryptamine, only 40mg of tryptamine was used to produce up to 3.3% Psilocin, since tryptamine weighs 160.22g/mol. Well, if 22% of the tryptamine was converted into Psilocin, then that means 8.8mg of Psilocin was converted. So, if that 8.8mg is the 3.3% Psilocin, then there was approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown. Also, if approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown and 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, then approx. 2.1mg of Psilocybin was produced. Of course, the levels of Psilocin/Psilocybin was probably not this high at the same time. While 3.3% Psilocin was detected, Psilocybin was probably undetectable and while 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, less than 3.3% Psilocin was produced. The highest level of Psilocybin will probably come in the second flush, whereas the highest level of Psilocin will come in the fourth flush. Psilocin levels remains somewhat consistant from flush to flush, whereas Psilocybin levels change rapidly from flush to flush.
Ok, now that I've applied the math to Tryptamine input to Psiloc(yb)in output. Let's apply it to Alpha-Methyl-Tryptamine (AMT) input to Alpha-Methyl-Psiloc(yb)in output. Since AMT weighs 175.25g/mol, 0.25 millimoles would be about 44mg. If 22% was converted into Alpha-Methyl-Psilocin, then that would be about 10mg. Suppose we wanted about 20mg, then we would use twice as much, 88mg AMT, which is available from MBE Tech. This may also be done with DPT and DIPT, which are available from JLF One more thing I would like to mention. In the cultures that DET was introduced to produce 4-HO-DET and it's phosphate ester, the caps of the shrooms were smaller than the ones that weren't introduced DET, but the spores of them produced same regular size mushrooms. So, DET inhibited the growth of the shrooms some. Also, the usual color change to blue when brused was also changed to a greenish-blue, if I remember right. -PsiliPharm [This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 28, 1999).]
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Anonymous |
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Recently, I was doing some studying on chemicals and hormones that may effect plant and mushroom growth and I came across Brassinosteroids. Here is the two references that made me wonder about their use in mushroom growth:
Brassinosteroids. G. Adam, V. Marquardt. Phytochem. 25: 1787 (1986) I haven't had a chance to check these sources out yet, but the second suggests that this might work. Here are some more sources: TITLE: Brassinosteroids. TITLE: Biological effects of brassinosteroids. TITLE: Molecular physiology of brassinosteroids revealed by the analysis of mutants. TITLE: Recent advances in brassinosteroid molecular genetics. TITLE: A tale of dwarfs and drugs: brassinosteroids to the rescue. TITLE: Synthesis and molecular modeling: related approaches to progress in brassinosteroid research. TITLE: Recent developments in the field of plant steroid hormones. TITLE: Studies on biosynthesis of brassinosteroids. TITLE: Brassinosteroids. TITLE: Molecular genetic studies confirm the role of brassinosteroids in plant growth and development. TITLE: Plant hormones: brassinosteroids in the spotlight. TITLE: Synthesis of new brassinosteroids with potential activity as antiecdysteroids. TITLE: Synthesis of brassinosteroids and relationship of structure to plant growth-promoting effects.
[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 30, 1999).]
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![]() Stranger Registered: 12/29/99 Posts: 2 Last seen: 23 years, 10 months |
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This makes we wonder about the possibilty of using legal mushrooms to smuggle in the fun substances by growing them in the substrate. Perhaps adding dmt to the substrate of some standard edible mushroom and being able to extract/take them. Although dmt might not be possible i just decided to use it as a random example. I understand that this would probably be a very ineffecient way to smuggle because of the fact the mushrooms would probably break down some of the substance but and not extract all of it from the cake but who knows.
-TheAtom
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Anonymous |
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Here are some more sources for information about Brassinosteroids:
CIDtech Research Inc. - Brassinosteroid Supplier Brassinosteroid Synthesis Group Other Hormones - Brassinosteroids A Start At A Comprehensive Theory Of Plant Hormones Growth Regulators and Hormones Brassinosteroids: ABS798-Growth and Development Brassinosteroids Home Page Brassinosteroids: A New Class of Plant Hormones -PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Where do you find the time to create these posts? Really, it must take for ever to find those links and then attach them.. never mind the endless text... I am amazed.
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Anonymous |
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You and so many others, and you've hardly see any of the work that I do. I was pissed today though because I couldn't go to the library, I woke up about an hour before it closes. I probably won't be adding much information until they go back to normal hours.
-PsiliPharm
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Anonymous |
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Ever since I first made this post, I've received many questions from people who didn't understand it and were left confused because they didn't know much chemistry. Well, there isn't much chemistry involved and it's not hard to understand. What most people have trouble understanding is the long compound names in relation to it's structure. If you know what the difference between tryptamine and alpha-methyl-tryptamine (AMT), you'll know the difference between psilocin and alpha-methyl-psilocin (4-HO-AMDMT), and that's basically all it comes down to. If you don't know what the structure looks like, and the properties of these structures then you won't understand the potential usefulness of this process. I'll be the first to admit that if it wasn't for being able to understand the relationship of these names in relation to their structures, I would not know anything about this and this post would not have existed. This is how I began to understand everything, it's all about the structures. If you know the names, and can visualize the structures, you'll be fine. Trust me, it's not hard. I had to refer back several times myself. Here's some of the best sources for structure pictures and also the properties of the substances:
The Lycaeum Graphics Archive - Structures TiHKAL - Tryptamines i Have Known and Loved Part II PiHKAL - Phenethylamines i Have Known and Loved Part II The above links are very useful in understanding the substances described throughout this thread. I included the ChemFinder link because you can search it and find most of the other non-drug compounds that were talked about even though their structures are not that important, but it also gives links for more info about each substance and it's care and such. I hope that this helps you people out a little...I plan on creating a web page describing the process a little better with graphical representations to make understanding a little easier. -PsiliPharm
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![]() old hand Registered: 01/17/00 Posts: 597 Loc: United Kingdom Last seen: 15 years, 9 months |
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PsiliPharm,
Wow... What more can I say... I'm impressed. I'm very interested in your ideas, and would like to know more, however I find following this thread extremely difficult as ther eis so much technical information that's goes straight over my head. Peace Phil
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Anonymous |
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Just thought this was intersting and wanted to bring back up again.
![]() ~GS~
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![]() Geek ![]() ![]() Registered: 10/14/99 Posts: 1,396 Last seen: 6 months, 5 days |
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Sasha Shulgin [sp?, author of TIHKAL, PIHKAL] made a brief statement during a lecture last summer about having boosted psilocybin content of cubies to 3% by adding DMT to [either substrate or casing, can't remember].
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence from a true chemical wizard, he didn't mention anything about affected yields, etc. Hmmmmm, I wonder what would happen if you replaced timothy hay cob with phalaris
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Anonymous |
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PsiliPharm...so do you think 5-HTP would bring up the amount of psylocybin in the mushrooms? How much?
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Anonymous |
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I just read here somewhere about a chilli powder and water mix being sprayed on the casing. It is said to iritate the shroom and so it makes more Psilocin. I haven't tryed this yet, but it sounds easyer than the stuff above. Has anyone tryed it?
~GS~
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