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OfflinedaWhiteRabbit
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Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis?
    #4336220 - 06/25/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I have recently become fascinated with the concept of growing mushrooms with DMT in the substrate, but have been having some difficulty finding concrete information on how best to do this. A couple of months ago some friends of mine made an attempt at combining mimosa hostilis with their substrate, with a rather bizarre result.

They were beginner growers, and attempted this after having been through the normal growth process with only limited success. When I showed them the article by Shulgin detailing the DMT>4-HO-DMT conversion caused by mushroom growth, they became very excited, as they had been experimenting with ayahuasca at the time.

The next day they decided to experiment, and made ten cakes by combining ground up mimosa hostilis with the vermiculite. However, they did not attempt to sterilize the bark in any way beyond simple washing in the sink. As a result there was rampant contamination in 8 of the jars. After seeing the 8 that were contaminated, they made the (false) assumption that the remaining two were as well, but left them in the incubating chamber for no other reason than pure pot-infused laziness.

So they were quite surprised a couple weeks later to find uncontaminated shrooms growing in the jar, in the shape of the glass. They were even more surprised to discover that three tenths of a gram of this ugly looking but uncontaminated fungus was plenty to inspire a medium strong experience, half a gram being quite strong.

I experienced this firsthand, with no indigestion or stomach issues at all. Since then I have been primarily busying myself with a greater understanding of various casing methods, as I am a relative beginner myself.

I remain highly interested in the potentials for combining mimosa hostilis with cubensis substrate, and am of the opinion that if I first boil the rootbark for a 12-15 hour period, similar to the preparation of ayahuasca (but without MAOI's), the risk of contamination would be significantly reduced.

I am also of the opinion that the successful growth of this type of 'super shroom' would lend itself extraordinarily well to the simple everclear extraction described & discussed elsewhere on these boards. I have been searching for quite some time for a way to easily isolate and consume relatively pure psilocin for quite some time. An everclear extraction of 'super shrooms' put into gelcap form could have a number of advantages.

Indigestion, etc., would likely be avoided. Additionally, one could investigate subjectively whether the psilocin experience varies significantly from the psilocybin one - a question that I have not seen sufficiently answered in any literature.

Any advice or knowledge on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: daWhiteRabbit]
    #4336259 - 06/25/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

do a search on tryptophan in this forum, you'll find a dozen threads in the last month. this is a popular topic.

i suppose it's advanced mycology, but i'm never sure whether to move these threads, or where to. any advice from regulars in this forum greatly appreciated.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: daWhiteRabbit]
    #4336916 - 06/25/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

made ten cakes by combining ground up mimosa hostilis with the vermiculite



how much mimosa?

Quote:

I remain highly interested in the potentials for combining mimosa hostilis with cubensis substrate, and am of the opinion that if I first boil the rootbark for a 12-15 hour period, similar to the preparation of ayahuasca (but without MAOI's), the risk of contamination would be significantly reduced.



The root bark would be sterilized simply through pressure cooking alone. No need to boil for 12+ hours (excessive even for aya prep).
Quote:

Additionally, one could investigate subjectively whether the psilocin experience varies significantly from the psilocybin one - a question that I have not seen sufficiently answered in any literature.




There is no difference. One is metabolized into the other, just add to a human body.


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OfflineKalix
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: mycofile]
    #4337260 - 06/25/05 10:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking that just dipping it in isopropyl then letting it dry in a sterile environment..


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Offlineliveby
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: Kalix]
    #4338104 - 06/26/05 02:21 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

wouldn't the enzymes in the fungus break it down into some acid ?? dunno how about the need for a MIAO inhibitor ? and would this "super mushroom" pass on the genetics?


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Invisibleyousuck
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: liveby]
    #4338940 - 06/26/05 12:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

it would be more effective to make the ayahuasca tea then simmer your grains in that than to use the straight plant matter. however the needed acidification of the tea may upset the neutral PH requirement of the substrate, so it may be necessary to add some limestone to your substrate before PCing.

using tryptophan in the substrate isnt the same as using DMT in the substrate. they both enter the psilo metabolic process at different stages. as to which one is more effective, that hasnt been determined.


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OfflinedaWhiteRabbit
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: yousuck]
    #4341719 - 06/27/05 05:07 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"The root bark would be sterilized simply through pressure cooking alone. No need to boil for 12+ hours (excessive even for aya prep)."

My understanding is that there is no such thing as an 'excessive' ayahuasca prep, that repeated strainings & longer boiling can help to reduce (but certainly not eliminate) nausea. I am also of the opinion that putting even ground up bark material in the jars would inhibit mycelium growth, at the very least making it slower than normal cubensis. However, if I was to prepare a multiple-strained ayahuasca brew, and use the purplish liquid (with no bark) in the place of (an in proportion to) water in an ordinary cake 'recipe.'

As to psilocin vs. psylocybin:
"There is no difference. One is metabolized into the other, just add to a human body."

Yes I have seen literature that confirms this, but oftentimes I find that when dealing with these types of substances certain subjective reactions may be effected (possibly) *before* metabolization . . . I would point to the differences between "Orange Sunshine" acid, ALD-52, and LSD. ALD-52 converts to LSD when ingested, purportedly even when exposed to sunlight; however, users of both substances universally report significant differences. I would imagine psilocin v. psylocybin may be similar, and this may be a way to explore that, as the shrooms would theoretically be pure 4-HO-DMT.


yousuck - I'm interested by your mention of limestone to balance the pH, i found this posting today

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1416902

which indicates that something of that nature may be necessary. How would you recommend incorporating this into the process? It also seems to me that tryptophan vs. DMT would be completely different, as understand that the fungus hydroxizes tryptamine compounds, and hydroxized tryptophan is likely different from 4-HO-DMT . . .

Thanks for the input, trying to broaden a few horizons here and there.


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Offlineliveby
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: daWhiteRabbit]
    #4341775 - 06/27/05 05:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ALD-52 or N-acetyl-LSD, is a chemical analogue of LSD-25, discovered by Albert Hofmann, but later just filed away. It has the same characteristics as LSD, but "without the anxiety, tenseness, and other problems inherent to it". One of the underground chemist's labs reportedly made ALD-52, and got busted. This resulted in the first drug analogue trial, where the chemists claimed they did nothing wrong producing ALD-52, because LSD-25 was the illicit drug. The only problem with this reasoning is that even though ALD-52 is a different compound than LSD-25, it decomposes to LSD when reacting with water from the air. - its still illegal as it uses ergotamine tartrate


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Invisibleyousuck
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: liveby]
    #4342496 - 06/27/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ousuck - I'm interested by your mention of limestone to balance the pH, i found this posting today

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1416902

which indicates that something of that nature may be necessary. How would you recommend incorporating this into the process? It also seems to me that tryptophan vs. DMT would be completely different, as understand that the fungus hydroxizes tryptamine compounds, and hydroxized tryptophan is likely different from 4-HO-DMT . . .




If your using jarr'd substrate like WBS, rice, etc... then it would make sense to add it before the substrate gets PC'd, as it would be impossible to add it after.

With poo, you would have to soak your poo in ayahuasca, then after its reached a desirable water content mix up some lime into it. im guessing the spawn doesnt have to be messed with in this case. Of course poo has so much nutes already i dont see the point in adding any DMT compound.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: yousuck]
    #4343200 - 06/27/05 03:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I would like to see a wood lover like a cyan or azure grown out on a blend of root bark and alder(possibly even straight pulverized root bark would sustain a wood loving strain). I have used Jurema wine to wet my grains before and had some damn potent mushrooms, along the 1/2-3/4 fresh dry gram dosage(mild-medium) range of cubensis(aussie strain) IMO a wood lover if it metabolises the actives in MHRB in the way cubensis does, one should end up with ~100-250mg dosage potency(strong-medium).
Jurema as the liquid addition to grains do make for quite potent mushrooms. I personally make straight grain cakes then after the second flush I make tincture from the ground cake. Dry the tincture and use with rue to get any unmetabolized DMT and carefully dry the mushies as they are not as durable as "normal" shrooms. they must be kept DRY,DARK, and O2FREE to preserve the exceptional potency. they will hold fairly well for up to a yr if well preserved. But fresh ones are damn near paranormal and the Cake-a-huasca is not to be taken lightly either.
If any one has done the woodlover/MHRB experiment I would greatly like to hear about it or should someone have a link. (search does not give up much).
Yours,
WR :wexican:


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Mimosa Hostilis Cubensis? [Re: whiterasta]
    #4371709 - 07/05/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if adding a little phosphoric acid to a jar with either DMT or mimosa bark would increase the psilocybin content. Or just use phosphoric acid as the acid to extract the "jurema" liquid, maybe add a base of some kind if you need to adjust the ph more towards neutral. Having the DMT in a salt form like DMT phosphate will make it more water soluble anyway.


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