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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Spiritual Life
    #4335597 - 06/25/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Is it possible to have a spiritual life and have religious beliefs without rejecting science? I think so. Whenever one of my spiritual notions is rejected utterly by scientific evidence I discard it. Being dynamic is a a positive attribute. This allows us to constantly adopt new paradigms in order that we may grow. Stagnation is what waits for those who choose to ignore truth. Some say that there is scientific truth and then there is spiritual truth...and that they are unrelated. I disagree...there is only truths and falsehoods when science and religion meet. Is not part of spiritual advancement the quest for truth? Science is not asking us to discard all of our spiritual beliefs, it is merely the unvarnished quest for truth.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335624 - 06/25/05 12:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I tend to agree. My outlook on science is that it is spiritual, and another avenue, and a good one, for exploring. :thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Icelander]
    #4335635 - 06/25/05 01:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I have often been confronted about how I can support shamanism as a world view because I am a sceptic in many respects. I will often be the first to cry bullshit on spiritual beliefs in defiance of scientific study. This is where critical thinking IS relevant to religion. No one likes having their idea shot down by "the sceptic", but this is a valuable tool for evaluation and growth.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335779 - 06/25/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i usually learn something when people disagree with me. i rarely change my mind but i feel my opinions become much more nuanced.

IMO science and certain spiritual beliefs are both perspectives and not intrinsically good, but are good if adopting them means good things to happen.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335808 - 06/25/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Since shamanism is such a broad subject now that it has been popularized in media, and adopted by some new age cults. I would be very interested in your defination of shamanism, how you use it, how it relates to the use of power plants, and the benefits of it as a path toward spiritual growth. It may be off topic here, so maybe if you are at all interested in sharing this you could start a thread or pm me. I admit I am an apprentice on this path but I do consider it my path and my approch valid and workable. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4335961 - 06/25/05 02:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You can't really tell what is spirituality until you know the nature of life and universe. Otherwise you might be caught up in one lie after another. First use science to figure out what you are and what life is, then arrange spirituality around it


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Icelander]
    #4335984 - 06/25/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

At it's core shamanism is based in healing. A shaman, classically, overcomes, a serious personal crisis and gains his insight during this process. This is the shamanic crisis. A shaman heals their person, then they use this knowledge to heal others. The shaman addresses the spiritual aspects of healing. Often a shaman is also a "doctor" who gives treatments...but not always. The shaman believes that when an injury, sickness, or mental disorder strikes that it injures the spirit...or even fragments it. The shaman will recover that fragment...which is just a symbolic device for expressing that persons spiritual sickness. The method used is to travel through a mental/spiritual realm to seek guidance from spirits (aspects of self?). Drumming or drugs are often used to induce this state. They usually use an animal spirit (aspect of self again)as a go between. This is the shamanic journey. I think this process is part spiritual and part psychology.
I think that to travel a shamanic path is to recognize the connection we have with nature and to use this connection to keep ourselves, others, and the planet healthy. Entheogens have been known to foster this feeling of connection with nature for some people. This is a quick run down of my thoughts on this.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4335991 - 06/25/05 03:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Good idea. I have tried to do this...often I fail.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4336015 - 06/25/05 03:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

it's interesting that physical harms is viewed as a kind of spiritual harm. that perspective is definately absent in our western medicine, and i would say in many ways more scientifically accurate.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spiritual Life [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4336028 - 06/25/05 03:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Many actual doctors are adopting this notion of spiritual sickness. It is slowly gaining ground as it is an approach that has been shown accelerate healing.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Spiritual Life [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4336071 - 06/25/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Hue, This is also my practice. I notice the root connection to many philosophys, and religious and spiritual practices here and in other cultures. Shamanism may well be where the spiritual/scientific/philosophic, quest began. In a human population out of balance with itself and nature it holds great promise for healing. Although I believe as in the past few would be willing to practice it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/25/05 03:27 PM)


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