Home | Community | Message Board


Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Spiritual types and personalisms
    #4412726 - 07/16/05 09:43 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Rather than debate ideas, way too many of the self-proclaimed "path-walkers" would rather discuss me (or others). This is all fear-based because they tremble when their beliefs are questioned and so must lash out rather than do any deep self-examination.

It is easy to spot when someone starts their thread with, "Swami, you are a ..."

This is a place to exchange thoughts not to discuss personalities.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412735 - 07/16/05 09:47 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

What is a path-walker? I walk the paths in the nature preserve by my house...


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412745 - 07/16/05 09:49 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Let's turn this around..

if you were approached by a guy that tells you he was aboard an alien space ship? Would you not first think about the talker, and not his words? Wouldn't you consider what does it make him say that?
You would probably stand there thinking what it's about, is he a liar, or is he sick or whatever..

You would not be able to separate the talker from his words


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4412753 - 07/16/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

I would know that the talker was human and that humans are notorious for misperceiving. I certainly would not ask him if his mother abandoned him as a child. I would want to know the details of the sighting.

For decades I took everything said at face value when I investigated; only after thousands of such trails turned up cold, did I "become cynical" or realistic about such claims.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412772 - 07/16/05 10:03 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

no misperception, the guy said he was inside, talking to alien creatures, would you not analise him in your head?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412774 - 07/16/05 10:03 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

So when you start threads and make statements about an entire group of people. Say they are very mislead and mistaken. That your decision is fact and must be accepted bacause you have a percieved logical edge?

Swami when you go out of your way, as you have done in this thread, to invite a debate about how someone questions your ideas and conclustions. What do you think will happen ?

Then you complain whin and bitch about it..........

That's what your doing now right ?

And when you say " That person is not playing fare"

Tehn you make such judgements like "Rather than debate ideas, way too many of the self-proclaimed "path-walkers" would rather discuss me (or others). This is all fear-based because they tremble when their beliefs are questioned and so must lash out rather than do any deep self-examination."


And then you ask why do people always question me ?

Maybe it is you who fears the truth ?

I do not know I am not you

And you are not me

So please stop deciding what I am fearfull off and stop make conclustion aboput me and others based on your own conclustions.


While I may do that from time to time it will be based on facts taht you present not what I conclude

That it a fatal weakness I think you have. I conclude LOL Love


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4412782 - 07/16/05 10:07 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

I've never seen one of these 'Swami is a' threads..


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Kalix]
    #4412786 - 07/16/05 10:09 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

But you will see many " Swami say you are a " threads


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4412821 - 07/16/05 10:19 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

I have seen a cpl.. This being one that almost offended me, I think Swami is jaded and cynical enough to be a cute anachronism though.. Swami is a valuable addition to the Shroomery.. In my mind, he is the archetype of the skeptic..

And a lot of times he does have valid arguments, but sometimes he doesn't, for instance, when commenting on shamans using rattles and smoke to cure illness, how can we be so sure our medicine is so much more effective? We have never even done clinical trials comparing Shamanism to modern Western medicine..

I think it is important to remain skeptical, but I also think it's important not to attack peoples belief systems with generalizations that border on racist.. To a tribal or aboriginal person, the idea that we treat illness with pills, or cancer with toxic radiation is just as absurd as the idea that they treat illness with song, trance, drums, rattles, and smoke


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Kalix]
    #4412844 - 07/16/05 10:25 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

And a lot of times he does have valid arguments, but sometimes he doesn't, for instance, when commenting on shamans using rattles and smoke to cure illness, how can we be so sure our medicine is so much more effective?

One of the major reasons Native American populations were low was due to infant mortality. This problem has largely been addressed by modern medicine.

True or false?

After the arrival of the Europeans in America, the Indian shamans were unable to stop the spread of small pox through shamanic means.

True or false?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Kalix]
    #4412851 - 07/16/05 10:28 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

The name or word "Swami" appears 1000 times in posts over the last five years.

Discussing me is NOT discussing S&P.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412852 - 07/16/05 10:28 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Rather than debate ideas, way too many of the self-proclaimed "path-walkers" would rather discuss me (or others). This is all fear-based because they tremble when their beliefs are questioned and so must lash out rather than do any deep self-examination.

It is easy to spot when someone starts their thread with, "Swami, you are a ..."

This is a place to exchange thoughts not to discuss personalities.




I thought this was funny you said that then said this...

"Funny how many claim to have deep insight into the workings of the universe and the human condition whilst tripping and/or meditating and then state "you're a jerk for not agreeing with me" and "btw, can someone please help me with my failing relationship" and "how do I deal with a tyrant boss" and other ordinary problems.

If your mind-blowing perceptions cannot help you deal with day-to-day stuff, then they are near-worthless with no more substance than any other dream."

The part I like best is when you said this "This is a place to exchange thoughts not to discuss personalities"


Ok without turning this into a cat fight. Let me ask you a question

Explain the two sided coin you have presented. Put the mojo in your convections Swami. I don't understand the position you have made. I would like to know how a person is to have a discusion with you when you will not discuss you. Oh you demand that many of us will not examine ourselves. Can you examine yourself. Oh wait this is not the place to have a personal discussion. See swami what you have done ?

I mean how am I suppose to follow guidelines that you demand when you yourself go out of your way......





Maybe I should use your tech. I will say all I want about anyone but withhold there name and thereby fall within what is acceptable ?

Isn't that what you do ? Hide behind a mask to say what you feel ?


How do you expect to get any real respect when you do these things? What is the point ? Please explain :smile:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKalix
'Head

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1,504
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412907 - 07/16/05 10:44 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
And a lot of times he does have valid arguments, but sometimes he doesn't, for instance, when commenting on shamans using rattles and smoke to cure illness, how can we be so sure our medicine is so much more effective?

One of the major reasons Native American populations were low was due to infant mortality. This problem has largely been addressed by modern medicine.

True or false?

After the arrival of the Europeans in America, the Indian shamans were unable to stop the spread of small pox through shamanic means.

True or false?




First off, I have to admit that Iknow next to nothing about infant mortality rates in pre-european invlovement Native American cultures, do you have a source for this?

Second I would like to ask, if a culture that was technologically advanced to ours, was spreading, say, anthrax by giving us some gift, would that immediatly discount our medicines?

Why is it that so many people that have ready access to Western medicine use homeopathy, shamanism, yoga, etc.. in conjunction with Western medicine? Wny not integrate what works into a cohesive method for treating illness??


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4412995 - 07/16/05 11:10 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

After the arrival of the Europeans in America, the Indian shamans were unable to stop the spread of small pox through shamanic means.
__________________________________________________________

Cancer still kills and has not been conquered. Over 100,000 deaths a year are attributed to reactions to pharm medications and medical procedures. Heart disease, still a major killer. The list goes on. But that doesn't invalidate modern medicine.

Shamanic healing did work for some things. Things of a spiritual or psychological nature. The fact that they couldn't treat everything doesn't invalidate it. Also many modern medicines were first derived from plants used by shamans, with some good effect.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,047
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Icelander]
    #4413018 - 07/16/05 11:15 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Building from Icelander's point.. Let's not forget that the Shaman serves MANY roles in the tribe. Healer was just another one. And lest we forget that approximately 25% of western pharmaceuticals come from rainforest products. keeping in mind that less than 1% of these tropical trees and plants have been tested by scientists. Shamanic healing did, and does work for a great number of things. They hold more knowledge in their heads about natural medicine than all of our books on it combined.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Shroomism]
    #4413062 - 07/16/05 11:27 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

And the fact the modern medicine has only been around for 150 years or so. The Shaman have had 25,000 years to get it right


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4413105 - 07/16/05 11:40 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

"This is all fear-based because they tremble when their beliefs are questioned and so must lash out rather than do any deep self-examination."

Good point. A spiritual path should constantly lead one to adopt new paradigms. Old ideas should be discarded as they become outmoded so that new ideas can be implemented. This is sometimes a painful process, but it is a healthy one that assures stasis will not occur. When one finds stasis growth stops. To use a path of the spirit to "harden one's shell", so to speak, is to embrace falsehood at it's very root.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4413120 - 07/16/05 11:45 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

"One of the major reasons Native American populations were low was due to infant mortality. This problem has largely been addressed by modern medicine."

I have to call you on this one though. Have you ever heard of population control. It ensures a population of animals stays healthy so that overpopulation does not occur. This was NOT a problem to the Native Americans, but a natural means of population control. Man is after all merely an animal.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4413147 - 07/16/05 11:51 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

This was NOT a problem to the Native Americans

Depends on the perspective. To the squaw who lost her child it certainly was. To a small tribe that needed more warriors, it was definitely a problem.

From the perspective of natural balance it wasn't.

Either way, the shamans were unable to address the issue with their methods.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,047
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Spiritual types and personalisms [Re: Swami]
    #4413162 - 07/16/05 11:55 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

What does that have to do with their effectiveness?

Obesity/heart disease is currently the leading cause of death in the US, by far. All the miracles of 'modern medicine' haven't done a thing for it. It's only gotten worse. By that same rationale, I guess modern medicine is completely worthless.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Shamanism
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
NiamhNyx 9,281 168 11/12/07 12:44 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation?
( 1 2 all )
whiterasta 3,260 34 10/19/02 06:05 AM
by sir tripsalot
* Will you accept ----- as your personal....
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
OldWoodSpecter 4,546 128 05/09/06 01:04 AM
by it stars saddam
* Magical Mushrooms and Spirituality
( 1 2 all )
CaRnAgECaNdYS 3,396 29 08/24/04 07:35 AM
by MOTH
* Pot and Spirituality
( 1 2 3 all )
CherryBomM 3,282 40 12/10/04 08:57 AM
by kaiowas
* Spiritual Life Huehuecoyotl 736 10 06/25/05 03:26 PM
by Icelander
* Neo-shamanism
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Icelander 4,155 68 11/15/05 11:53 AM
by Vertigo6911
* The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality
( 1 2 3 all )
gettinjiggywithit 5,249 42 03/17/08 05:25 AM
by 764hero

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
3,156 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 18 queries.