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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: GazzBut]
    #3617103 -

Swami- i never said i knew the intentions of ALL the masters at all, but i can comment from my own experience on the masters i have met who are not egotistical in the western sense of the idea of ego at all.

Agressivness is not a prerequisit of martial arts, i think it was Ip Chung, Bruce Lee's master who once said "Anger without aggression" regarding his art!

And regarding a master fighting in the UFC, this would be muderous as masters are not called masters for nothing. As my dad always says

" Before martial arts i was afraid of fighting for fear of geeting my ass kicked, Now im afraid to fight becuase i can only kill with my strikes!"

This is after 20years of martial arts training! Most competative martial artists as you say use agression against an opponenet to win some prize or title, to become a famous fighter. This is only one aspect of martial arts, and probably the least beneficial one. Many masters use their chi force for healing others and to enhance their spiritual practice!


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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Sinbad]
    #3617149 -

the whole ego penis 7-ton truck proof thing is neither specific to the issue (qi) nor to the teaching(s) - IMO it is very wrong headed to fall into such an interpretation context and argue about it (next you will be at how many angels are on the head of a pin).

this is not something to be proselytized. - qi
this is an area of study for the purpose of self improvement, or mental growth - thinking outside of your little box etc.

all to often someone interested in self improvement thinks they have to correct someone else - what the f*ck is that all about?

I think it is just a tangential distraction, or an insecurity about one's own choices - chalk up another one to mara and confusion.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3617178 -

Yeah man the penis, truck pulling was a poorly chosen example of the apllication of qi  :grin:

We are debating about qi application within martial arts, what is wrong-headed about that? im not trying to correct anyone, im merely expressing an opinion.

Neither am i trying to improve upon perfection!  :grin:


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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Sinbad]
    #3617223 -

i think what hes saying is that Qi has a much greater significance
that it can be used for profound healing and self improvement
its not something that needs to be argued to exist in ones mind

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: fresh313]
    #3617514 -


If this Qi is so useful in spiritual healing,
what better way to heal everybody than to prove it to the skeptics..
that way, even the skeptics can learn Qi and heal their dying grandmothers..

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Razman]
    #3617597 -

What you are looking forward to has come, but you don't know it?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Gomp]
    #3620007 -

I think there is some disagreement with what is meant by the 'martial arts world' as in: the martial arts world would be dominated by old masters (Swami)

UFC hardly constitutes the Martial Arts World.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3626037 -

Swami:

Are you taking the bet or are you just going to pretend the internal consistency of our arguments is better proof than good ol' fashion empirical verification?

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3626261 -

I think there is some disagreement with what is meant by the 'martial arts world' as in: the martial arts world would be dominated by old masters (Swami)

That is weak. Everyone's view of ANY sport or activity is divided. Some practice for flexibility, some for confidence, some for self defense, some for fitness, some for focus and so on.

However, the UFC came about because competing full-contact martial artists (in egoic fashion) long argued about which style was the most powerful or deadly. Was it karate, kung fu, ju jitsu, tae kwon do, Thai kickboxing or what? The UFC was formed to settle that debate.

Please pick another public avenue that better represents pure fighting skills in the martial arts.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3626280 -

Your wager is quite vague. I have no doubt that he would impress me as would anyone sufficiently skilled in any endeavor. Do you doubt that I could impress you in my limited arena?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3626312 -

Please pick another public avenue that better represents pure fighting skills in the martial arts.

I'll grant you that, but I can respond in the same way:

pure fighting skills are not the only aspect of martial arts.

ideally martial arts are aimed at bettering the entire being. it could be argued that someone who's trained long and hard at martial arts would have gained, alongside some deadly pure fighting skills, some shifted perspectives which are incompatible with going in UFC to kick ass and prove how deadly their style is.

here's where I get fucked up though: boiled down, what I'm saying is there may be some people out there who would totally dominate UFC, but their high level of fighting skills implies other characteristics, some of which preclude them from entering UFC. you never know, there might be

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3626342 -

ideally martial arts are aimed at bettering the entire being.
Whose ideal? Martial arts were generally developed in feudal systems where weapons were forbidden to the non-warrior class. The "arts" were designed to kill with hands, sticks and farm implements - pure and simple. This historical fact cannot be disputed.

you never know, there might be
*yawn* Yet another lame apology for why someone's pet theory does not hold water. I get so tired of being right all the time.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3626423 -

Swami said:
you never know, there might be
*yawn* Yet another lame apology for why someone's pet theory does not hold water. I get so tired of being right all the time.


man I guess I have to start using those fucking emoticons to better express the subtler nuances of my tone :weirdeyes: :thumbup: :confused: :eek: :syringe: :heartpump: :pill2: :heartpump: :sun:

oh, and your first point stands as long as we all agree that any system is only valid insofar as it is always used according to how it was originally developed and designed.

:thumbdown: :sun: :smile: :mushroom2: :tongue: :tongue: :sad:

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3626424 -

Your wager is quite vague.

I agree. As it's stated, my wager couldn't work. Just to clarify, my claim is not just that he would impress you but inspire you to adopt a new paradigm. Not that this clarification makes it any more a working bet or anything, though. I'm not dumb enough to bet $10 000 on whether or not you agree that I should win the bet or not. If either of us came up with a working bet, I'd do it, but for now accept my willingness to wager that much money as a symbol of my confidence, trust that my confidence is well-founded, and consider researching it further. Judging from your little biographical snippets (anecdotal evidence sometimes!?!?!?) you're not one to pass up checking some cool shit out.

UFC was formed to settle that debate.
In the USA. I've read a lot about full contact tournaments in China happening all through the last century, and I assume this practice predates contemporary history. I know there's a longstanding tradition of platform fighting, where martial artists would accept challenges on a raised platform sometimes everyday at certain hours. Announcements in the papers would invite challengers from anywhere in China to test a martial artist's skill. Wang Xiang Zhai, the founder of da cheng quan, was an unbeatable internal martial artist with a well-documented history. Yang Lu Chan went undefeated as he travelled all throughout China; Chen Fa Ke never had an opponent last longer than a couple seconds against him; Sun Lu Tang once defeated 20 men at once (barehanded); Chen zhaopi fought hundreds of opponents over the course of a few weeks in Beijing without losing.

What I'm saying is, don't make the American mistake of thinking that all the fighters in the world view the USA as the martial arts proving ground.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3626498 -

The world is a very small place today. Russian figure skaters were in California recently to compete. Basketball is now in the Olympics. The Boston Marathon draws out the best runners from Kenya. The Kenyans are indeed supuerior as a countr, but now no one can make superfluous claims about them being as fast as antelopes like in old tribal lore. The facts are on the table.

Why is giving a demonstration in some backwoods Chinese town for a few pennies more noble and less egoic than a larger stage and a larger purse?

Here is the deal, on the world stage and on film, it is much harder to exaggerate and makes myths out of deeds than a place with a few witnesses.

Hell, a few weeks ago, I held the racquetball challenge court for three hours against 8 opponents (some more than once as I played 11 games), some opponents were 20-30 years younger. I am slow and stiff (arthritis), slightly overweight (for an athlete) and nowhere near elite level, but still managed to look like a genius against novice and intermediate players simply by having a game plan, by making better choices and by reading my opponent.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (01/15/05 03:05 AM)

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3627125 -

dont make racquetball sound all mystical... all you did was hit the ball closer to the bottom of wall. you dont have to be smart, or in good shape to do that. it just requires practice.

martial arts is much different than raquetball. the wall isnt trying to kill you.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: fresh313]
    #3628369 -

I have studied the martial arts at a low level and I see nothing different than in any other sport that would amplify this mystical Qi force. Flexibility, strength and speed training, memorization and attempting to perfect techniques and routines; what is the X factor?

dont make racquetball sound all mystical... all you did was hit the ball closer to the bottom of wall. you dont have to be smart, or in good shape to do that. it just requires practice.
It is as mystical as the martial arts despite your quaint minimization. Top RB athletes have some of the most amazing reflexes in the world are are in top shape, but the sport is too fast to televise.

martial arts is much different than raquetball. The wall isnt trying to kill you.
Having done both, I don't see the difference internally. Racquetball is indeed a combative sport, but without contact. It is mind vs. mind in a pure on confrontation. It is a chess game with (usually :tongue2:) non-lethal weapons. It is a test of endurance, reflex, confidence and one-pointed concentration and visualization. To be an expert in either requires all you have plus zen-like focus.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3629932 -

would you rather play chess or checkers? or would you rather bash the shit crudely out of some guy's head?

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3630070 -

Whom did you have in mind?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Qi energy: mystical life force. [Re: Swami]
    #3630375 -

swami I've seen people use telekinesis,and they wasn't doing it to show off. I've practiced martial arts all my life and never wanted to show off my skill,I've never been in a fight ever.

it doesn't sound like you're much of a mind control expert or you wouldn't be bucking every bodies claims.

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