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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers..
    #2456895 - 03/21/04 11:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What do you guys think of this martial artist's stuff? He seems to be able to throw people without touching them and hit with lots of force barely touching them and stuff like that. Check it out and let's hear your opinions on what's going on.

martial arts video


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2456906 - 03/21/04 12:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The first part looked pretty fake and stuff...the second part, however...seemed more real.

Hmm..

Interesting stuff I guess.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2456920 - 03/21/04 12:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

nothing overly fake about it martial arts have always been based heavily on internal/mental/psychic forces, ki, qi etc...
ive seen videos like this from practicioners of tai-chi, qi-gong, aikido... and there all like this, extremely minimal physical contact, extremely powerfull results.
Its hard to say tho at what point these guys cross from incredible physical skill to metaphysical skill, you know?


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Offlinemg420
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2456929 - 03/21/04 12:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Biggest load of bs i've ever seen. He does pull a few good redirections, but for the most part these people are simply rolling for no reason. Want real martial arts vids? Download WuShu Kung Fu videos from kazaa or whatever.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: mg420]
    #2456932 - 03/21/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

ahem.. wushu kungfu is not martial arts. It's dancing.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: mg420]
    #2456933 - 03/21/04 12:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

assuming of coures that you are talking about "contemporary wushu" of the type that will be in the olympics.


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Offlinemg420
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2456941 - 03/21/04 12:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know anything about it being in the olympics, i'm referring to the actual high-risk fighting style developed a long time ago. I realize that the concepts of Wushu have been put into "demo" form just like any other style, but just like those others, it was originally a means of kicking ass.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: mg420]
    #2456947 - 03/21/04 12:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah the word "wushu" means martial arts literally, but nowadays in the west it's often used to describe the performance art that is a blend of traditional martial arts and gymnastics. Just had to clear up what you were talking about.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2457237 - 03/21/04 02:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

nothing overly fake about it martial arts have always been based heavily on internal/mental/psychic forces, ki, qi etc...
ive seen videos like this from practicioners of tai-chi, qi-gong, aikido... and there all like this, extremely minimal physical contact, extremely powerfull results.


It is called "redirecting force." Why are not these martial artists able to break boards and concrete slabs with a mere touch? But nooOOOoo! It is about three things:

1. Hand (callouses and ligament and joint) toughness through repetitive training.

2. Technique

3. Power (mass * speed)

Without #3, there is no force to break the bricks even with truckloads of (non-measurable) ki.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2457455 - 03/21/04 03:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Think of simple machines :smile:
Nothing special about it other than knowing how the joints and muscles of the body move and manipulating most efficiently.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: psyka]
    #2457481 - 03/21/04 04:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Zakkly! There are no senior martial artists winning board breaking contests. (Please everyone spare me the tired excuse of "they are beyond that sort of exhibition of power".) The reason is simple: their physical prowess is waning.

If ki were a real mystical power and the older you got the more you could accumulate, then old guys would be winning these contests. But these exhibits are basically NO DIFFERENT than weight-lifting or tennis in as far as they are purely physical feats and thus mainly in the domain of the young.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Swami]
    #2457521 - 03/21/04 04:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I dont understand your point that without number 3 the techniche is useless, without 1 OR 2, the same could be said... as far as using ONLY ki to do your bidding, I dont think thats the point of martial arts, you must combine BOTH strength/agility, with oneness and awareness of self and oponent and world, to fully use the power capable to you.

"If ki were a real mystical power and the older you got the more you could accumulate, then old guys would be winning these contests."
Wtf! thats like saying the older you get, the smarter you are.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2457691 - 03/21/04 05:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That video seemed pretty staged to me. Some of the moves were pretty silly...




"Your grab ass technique is no match for my developed butt powers"

For those who can?t tell whats going, the master is the one "winning" the fight by laying on the ground... while his opponent grabs his buttocks and rolls forward over him.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2457820 - 03/21/04 06:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

its the yin and yang of fighting tactics.......... True masters of the art understand the corolation between the yin(attack) and yang(defense, OR yeild)... if you wear your oponent down who is stong on the yin, you open up a point of unblalace and weakness in your oponent and can then switch from defensive, to offensive.


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OfflineFiddleMyDiddle
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2457842 - 03/21/04 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've seen similar demonstrations of Aikido-JuJitsu prowess, where the same principle is being applied. From what I've heard and seen its about finding centers of balance (physcial and qi) and countering according the opponents "flow."

Movements that cancel out the opponents "flow" of qi and force, seem to demostrate interresting results...

on a side note: most people i see use this technique all seem to be "chubbified" haha.. correlation?


--------------------
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You laugh at me because I'm different.
I laugh at you because you're all the same.
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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2457988 - 03/21/04 07:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If I see him do that to people in a REAL fist fight on the streets--THEN I'll believe it.

:wink:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Swami]
    #2458002 - 03/21/04 07:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that was the stupidest thing I've ever seen....No offense to you of course.  First of all it's so blatantly unreal....ugh.  Stuff like this gives real martial arts a bad name.  All those participants are paid or just conforming to the group belief that the fat guy has some magic power and are letting themselves fall over like idiots.  Believe it if you want, but I highly discourage learning this type of thing for self defense, you may be in for a nasty surprise next time you get mugged.  :blush:


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Swami]
    #2458317 - 03/21/04 09:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yo dudes!

so, that video is of this Russian guy doing this russian system called systema, I believe. Most of the stuff in the video is actually just training excercises, like when the guy puts his hand in his opponents face and then the guy follows the hand to the ground without following it. What happens is that as people train this together it starts to work with them because the "victim" gets used to what they are expected to do. The thing is, the victim falls to the ground even if he doesn't want to.

I can't remember his name, but there was a famous tai chi master (maybe yang chen fu but I'm not sure about that) and he was training like this a lot. In Chinese terms it's called "empty force." Anyway, it was debunked. Though he could redirect his students and make them fall down, he was challenged and his empty force proved to be useless against an opponent who didn't train with him.

I was curious about how you guys would react to this video, so I didn't tell you what I knew about it till I had some replies.



The point swami brings up is interesting about board breaking. I train Chinese internal martial arts (tai chi etc.) with a very high level teacher. He can (literally) throw me across the room with an (literally) effortless brush of his hand, but he couldn't throw a 200 pound statue of me the same way. I don't quite understand why that is. He's explained once but I forgot. need to ask again.

Anyway, as he ages he continues to gain power. That's the thing about internals (xingyi chuan, taiji chuan, liu he ba fa, and ba gua zhang). The skill that can be gained is infinite. There is ALWAYS a higher lever. Take Chen Fa Ke for example. He got off his death bed at age 71 a few weeks before he died of cancer and threw a famous and healthy young martial artist all over the room. Nobody since him has reached his level. Some of his training apparatuses are still in Chen village and nobody can train with them. Weights and stuff that are just too heavy. weightlifters, body builders, nobody can do it. What's up with that?

Anyway, here's some cool ba gua stuff. BK Frantzis is a North American martial arts pioneer who specializes in Ba gua zhang. Here's him demonstrating a short ba gua form (good stuff):

click on the pic and video will play

And if you click on the "fighting" link there he is demonstrating at a tournament. His opponent was a quadruple gold medalist and at least 20 years his junior. BK grabbed him right out of the crowd and said "attack me" with no prior arrangement. You can see how stunned and maybe a little humiliated his opponent is in the video. BK's internal martial arts are quite high level, and this is a good example of his power.

I'll see if I can find some more video if you guys are interested in internals


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Squatting_Otter]
    #2458941 - 03/22/04 12:25 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Not one of your Masters can compete in strongman competitions.

Get on the links with Tiger Woods or on the courts with Roger Federer (two non-chi Masters) and you will also get your ass whipped.

There is no mysterious force except for training and study.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
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Re: Martial arts video clip.. psychic powers.. [Re: Swami]
    #2459073 - 03/22/04 01:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

tee hee hee

nope, like I said, not strongman competitions.

However, there are a number of taiji masters the world over who could take a crowd of people pushing on them and not lose their balance.


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