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InvisibleShroomismM
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Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu
    #1560161 - 05/19/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Liberation from in the between.

I know there are some practicioners here..please explain what the arts mean to you, how they make you feel, and the ancient memory located within the movements.

To me, the internal arts represent formlessness. Like water.
The chi that flows within, to neutralize, to respond.

Putting my thoughts from this category into words is difficult, so I just go with the first thing that pops into my head. Bruce Lee, Yang Jwing-Ming..my heros.


The inside is trained so that it will affect the outside

"Use the mind to direct the chi and the chi to mobilise the body." Cheng Man Ching (1947)




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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Shroomism]
    #1560178 - 05/19/03 03:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


Tai Chi to me is like a creative/expressive movement that just flows. It's almost an instinctual thing that excorsizes my soul, mind and body all at once.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Murex]
    #1560182 - 05/19/03 03:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It flows well.

And DAMN!..does it feel good~!


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Shroomism]
    #1560207 - 05/19/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


That it does my friend.........that it does.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Shroomism]
    #1560238 - 05/19/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I read a book once about Qi and Qi Gong, which I found to be extremely interesting. Titled Encounters With Qi, it was written by a Western medical doctor who went to China to study the concept and existence of Qi. He talked about interviews and demonstration sessions he held with Qi Gong masters, and the evidence he gave for the existence of Qi was pretty much undeniable, to me at least.

I don't know anything about Tai Chi at all, but it all sounds very similar to Yoga and the Buddhist concept of Prana. I am a practitioner of yoga myself, and it has given me boundless benefits already. I am now aware of and can feel a strong energy that resides within my own body, and all around me. Through different yogic practices, I have gotten in touch with that energy and reached some beginning states of heightened awareness and bliss.

I can definitely tell that yoga has already begun to unlock and strengthen some of the energy channels within my body, and I feel the flow getting stronger everyday. As I continue in my practice, I am able to perform increasingly difficult physical feats which were once impossible for me, and this I see as proof for the power of yoga. The way it makes me feel on an emotional, mental, and spiritual level is more than enough proof as well.

From the little I know, it sounds like the goals of Tai Chi and Yoga are pretty much the same, and I think they are both wonderful practices. I'd like to know more about the philosophy behind Tai Chi, if anyone would care to inform me or direct me to some good links.

Peace,

RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1560304 - 05/19/03 04:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Tai Chi and Yoga are very similar as you guessed. Chi is basically the chinese version of prana.. it is the same thing.. energy. In the west we call it bioelectric energy. Tai chi, like yoga, prepares the body to harness chi energy, and utilize it at will.

Where Yoga focuses mainly on body posture and manipulation to achieve inner harmony, Tai Chi is designed to promote harmony within the human systems (nervous system, organs, blood, muscles, etc) and also serves a dual purpose as useful in martial applications. T'ai Chi Ch'uan translates to "Supreme Ultimate Fist"... Qi Gong, literally means "Breath exercise"

Tai Chi is based on balancing your internal energies before you ever attempt using them externally. Qi Gong, or Chi Kung as it is pronounced, are exercises specifically directed towards re-balancing and maintaining the five fold energy systems in the body.

Here are some links for your perusal.. I wish I could make more analogies comparing yoga and tai chi, but unfortunately I am not so well learned in yoga. I do know that there are many similarities, as the chinese system of 'balancing the 5 systems', and the yoga '7 chakras'... they are interconnected on some level. Prana and Chi are the exact same thing as far as I am concerned.

http://www.mtsu.edu/~jpurcell/Taichi/taichi.htm
http://www.taichiproductions.com/articles/print.php?articleid=2&title=Four%20Qigong%20Exercises
http://www.rembrandt.gen.nz/rem/taichi.html
http://www.alchemilla.com/martial/qigong.html


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1560462 - 05/19/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


As I continue in my practice, I am able to perform increasingly difficult physical feats which were once impossible for me, and this I see as proof for the power of yoga.

You mean you can suck your own wang?  :shocked:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Murex]
    #1560572 - 05/19/03 05:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:tongue:

Why is it that every guy who knows I do yoga asks me this???
To answer your question, though. . . . . . .

Not yet! :wink:

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Shroomism]
    #1560602 - 05/19/03 05:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the links, Shroomism. Just so you know, there are many different types of Yoga. The one known most to Westerners is Hatha Yoga, which does focus on body postures (asanas) to open up and strengthen the energy channels in the body, making for a better flow of Prana/Chi.

This is the the branch of Yoga that I am most learned in, but I have recently been doing research on the other branches and what they are all about. Each seems to focus on a different method, but all have as their goal to awaken the Kundalini, resulting in Self-Realization and ultimate bliss and enlightenment.

It is such a fascinating topic that I plan to continue reading about in the near future. Anyway, thanks again for the links... I'm sure those will make for some interesting reading as well.

Peace,

RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1560633 - 05/19/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


Not yet!

LOL!  :laugh:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Shroomism]
    #1560866 - 05/19/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quick question, did you get your internet access, straight, will you be visiting the shroomery more, (cough*- now that 4th will really be "kicking in more") during this coming summer?

Ti ching and the acitvation of my dna?

I would love to learn some form of martial arts someday!


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineFatNug
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1561729 - 05/19/03 11:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

its peace... It makes me feel like water, or like a calm breeze. I usually do it after i do my Iron Palm exersizes. At first it makes my hands and arms tingle. after awhile the energy just explodes like a waterfall, and its like i dont even have to think about the movements they just happen, it feels like im underwater, i can just feel the energy all around me as my body gently slides through it. Sorry I got alittle excited there, its just so nice. So calm, so powerful.


--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: FatNug]
    #1562114 - 05/20/03 02:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

***disclaimer*** I'm not just trying to be mean.

That having been said, I have to say: all of this romanticising of eastern spiritual practices seems to be really unauthentic. Groups of white people co-opting something really sacred from another culture? I know that native american intellectuals get hella pissed off at "neo-shaman" who like to mimic native religions.... just think about it: how could a westerner really understand something like yoga or tai chi, however rigorous the training? There are so many untranslatable, culturally bound memes that are part of these practices.

I get what you guys are getting off on though, I like to glorify the past too. Rainbow gatherings / tribal style raves are fucking cool shit. I just don't like people acting like they are tapping into something that is directly tansferable to modern western life. It's insulting.

I would recommend long distance running as a transcultural (and inoffensive) means of reaching a physical-spiritual connection.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Malachi]
    #1562144 - 05/20/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


I just don't like people acting like they are tapping into something that is directly tansferable to modern western life. It's insulting.

Insulting? I find it to be a good thing. I think a great culture is one that can spread itself into others after it's gone bacause theirs was so influential. It allows the human race to grow imo.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Murex]
    #1562188 - 05/20/03 03:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

oh, of course I agree that westerner ought to learn from the rest of the world. I just think that the ideas should be seperate from religious practices. Going to the gym for yogo? yogo 'classes'? its commercial exploitation of the sacred. Like that taco bell commercial were the guy is floating because he has reached 'taco nirvana'. While people flocking to the exoticness of tai chi seems about the same to me.

I guess I'm just saying that these things ought to be taken seriously, and popular things are never taken seriously.

It's insulting regardless of whether its popularity is indicative of the greatness or influence of a given culture - that culture doesn't need validation of white people who are into a new fad.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Malachi]
    #1562239 - 05/20/03 03:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


'taco nirvana'

LOL! I never seen that commertial, but then I don't watch much tv.

I see your point, and in some ways I agree with you- but overall I think we should agree to disagree. I don't like how some butcher other cultures, that I agree with.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Malachi]
    #1562678 - 05/20/03 12:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Indeed.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: ]
    #1562825 - 05/20/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I know that native american intellectuals get hella pissed off at "neo-shaman" who like to mimic native religions.... just think about it: how could a westerner really understand something like yoga or tai chi, however rigorous the training? There are so many untranslatable, culturally bound memes that are part of these practices.

Nope, I disagree. Tai Chi crosses cultural barriers easily. You don't have to translate anything because it's all in your body, and we all have bodies. I agree with what you're saying applied to something like shamanism, because when a native american says "spirit" we have a totally different understanding of what a spirit or ghost is. But when the Chinese man says "relax your shoulder" there isn't any room for misinterpretation. You relax your shoulder.

That bit about westerners never being able to understand tai chi no matter how rigorous the training? Well, that's silly. The best martial artist I've ever seen is a white guy. He trains ba gua, shing yi, and tai chi. He is the lineage represantative to North America for 6 harmonies shing yi and a Chen style tai chi form. This means that the lineage holders in China decided that there is nobody better in North America at these styles of any race, which makes him the undisputable authority on them. So yes I agree that we love to bastardize and worship other cultures, and there are without a doubt many scam artists out there teaching bullshit tai chi to cash in on what people think tai chi is. There's this guy in town who's been teaching for decades, and he's just a groovy feel good hippy guy. He has no skill whatsoever as a martial artist, but people flock to him because he teaches what other hippy neo shaman types believe tai chi is. They just want to groove around together and "feel the flow." That aspect of tai chi is there sure, but remember that as Shroomism pointed out Tai Chi Chuan translates as Supreme Ultimate Fist (or fighting style). The genuine Tai Chi is not for the people with the weak stomachs. Learning to kill other humans is a very interesting and profound experience that not everybody is up to.

Anyway, back to the original question..

Internal Chinese martial arts are a non-religious spiritual practice that I can tap into and is accessible to anyone who can find the right teacher. When I say spiritual I mean that in Chinese terms.. Spirit or Sheng is your conscious awareness, and arts like ba gua, shing yi, and tai chi will change your spirit. It gives you a richer metaphor for the internal happenings of your body, so your self-awareness changes.

Because the big three internal Chinese martial arts (the ones I've mentioned) are based on models of how the universe works, to gain skill as a martial artist in these styles you have to understand principles of the universe (yin and yang, the five elements, the eight triagrams). Your body is part of the universe, so if you can get a rich inner understanding of your own body then you'll understand the workings of everything.

There are lots of philosophies and spiritual pursuits that will teach you this sort of thing, but you can't test them like you can martial arts. It's like you come up with a philosophy and then you can test if it's true or not by getting in a fight. You lose the fight and it means that your understanding of the universe was incomplete.

The group I've been training with lately is pretty rad. The teacher charges 25$ (canadian) a month, and he teaches 7 classes a week. It's great to have really regular training sessions with other people and a good teacher. We do it all outdoors, and we're a small group. I've trained external styles when I was younger, cause jumping around doing explosive and pretty forms is hella fun, but there's a real different feel with a group doing internal martial arts. Because we put so much emphasis on applications of the moves, we've all developed an interesting friendship. We're a bunch of guys practicing killing people on eachother. This is some pretty hardcore shit, cause the internal martial arts are the real deal, and I think confronting the scary side of humanity like this has formed an interesting bond among those of us doing it together. I mean, we're a light-hearted group and there's a lot more joking around than in the kung fu movies, but sometimes I get this eerie feeling of "Holy fuck I know how to kill someone with my bare hands in a matter of seconds."

But it's all good. The better trained you are, then the less desperate you will be in a real fight which leaves you in enough control of the situation that you don't have to take it as far as killing someone else to save yourself.

My advice to anybody who wants to check this stuff out is don't train with just anybody. Don't go to tai chi school chains like the Taoist Tai Chi Society. They're bunk and just teach crap that isn't worth your time. Check out the tournament scene. Find the people with the credentials. There's a community out there, and once you tap into it you'll be able to find good teachers almost wherever you go. If you don't have someone locally then go to seminars and train intensively every now and then with a teacher and then practice on your own. I've seen a lot of people who are very keen on martial arts and who possess lots of natural ability get locked in with shitty teachers and never become aware of just how deep martial arts can go.


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OfflineFatNug
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: Dogomush]
    #1563999 - 05/20/03 10:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

couldnt have said it better myself


--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Tai Chi Chuan~ Qi Gong ~ Gong Fu [Re: FatNug]
    #1564007 - 05/20/03 10:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


I want to get into Kempo. But I like using 2 Wakazashis instead of the Diasho. Tai Chi seems it would actually help with Kempo.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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