dblaney18 said:

I think it was mainly the Europeans of old that had this cultural taboo which spread to America and elsewhere they colonized. Take the Japanese for instance. In their culture, they even go so far as to have ritual suicide. You can commit suicide if you lost a battle because of something you did. You can even commit suicide to bring shame on someone. In Europe, if someone insulted you, you would challenge them to a duel, and then one or both of you would die. In Japan, if someone insulted you, you could commit suicide and bring shame upon the insulter. Quite frankly this strikes me as being largely more effective (not to say that I really think suicide is a GOOD thing!). However, they also experience less guilt. If someone commits suicide, then there is a sadness, but nothing like in the western hemisphere, where many people who knew the person who commited suicide would feel some personal responsibility.

Assuming I remember any of my history.

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Quote:

I don't know why an atheist would think suicide wrong... wouldn't it just be cutting to the chase for them.

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lucid said: my mom
firmly believes that suicide is a one way ticket
to "Hell" (eternal torment). I've argued and debated
the direct contradiction this implies with a benevolant
God (which she also believes in), but she has an amazing
ability to deny and maintain askewed logic.

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Here is some logic:

God is benevolent. However, he creates us with the freedom to reject him. If we loose the ability to make choices at death, then an act of suicide would be the final choice. It amounts to throwing the gift of life back in God's face, rejecting communion with him. This final act of rejection of God could not be repented of if the ability to act ends at death. A benevolent God who respects the freedom he has given to men and women could allow the soul of the person who rejects communion with him to flee into the darkness by his own free choice; this is hell.

Here's a version from the Muslim perspective (I think, I'm not Muslim.)

We belong to God, not to ourselves. God values people and forbids us to murder one another; The crime of murder can warrant damnation. Suicide is the act of murdering self. We are not allowed to murder any of God's people including ourselves.


Here's the Catholic version.

God sends no one to hell. People chose heaven when they chose to love God and to love neighbor as self; Heaven is a giant love fest among God and all the saints(holy people and angels in heaven). Those who do not love God, neighbor, and self would find the communion of heaven repugnant and flee from it at death. The only "place" to flee is hell. Jesus describes this in one parable as being forever locked outside of a party that we were invited to attend but refused the invitation. What makes hell so bad is the only other people there are those who also chose to hate instead of to love. They make poor companions.


The choice can be viewed in two ways: the "final option" and the "fundamental option."

Final option theory says that at the moment of death the soul stands before God and chooses once and for all to be united with him and all the blessed, to move into the light accepting that every thought and act will be known by all, or to reject this unity, prefering to flee into the darkness away from God's presence.

Fundamental option theory says that the sum total of a person's life determines the the choice for or against God. Though out life a person makes countless choices which direct him towards or away from God. Some acts radically move our orientation away from God; they are called mortal sins. A mortal sin is an act which changes the souls fundamental option from love to hate, from communion with God to rejection of him. Fortunately these can be forgiven and a course correction made back toward love and God. This theory asserts that the choice of heaven or hell is made while we are breathing, not at some point after death.

I hold along with Pope JP II that both are correct. The final option and the fundamental option are the same thing. When we stand before God to chose heaven or hell we will be convicted and offered mercy and love. If throughout our lives we have accepted love and mercy and been loving and merciful to others, then we will likely chose communion with God and enter heaven. If throughout our lives we have rejected God then we will likely reject him again.

Suicide is a grave matter which changes the fundamental option away form God. While it is possible that the person who kills himself could immediately repent at the final judgment and choose to love God, neighbor, and self , it seems unlikely as his last living act is an act of hatred for self.

That being said, the catholic religion does not teach that anyone is definitely in hell. This is because, as you noted, God is benevolent and infinitely merciful. This benevolence and mercy, however, does not prevent him from allowing us to reject the invitation to his party.

Don't kill yourself. It's bad.
Life is good.

Peace, love, and shroomyness.