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Offlinespooky123
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Heaven & Hell
    #3069426 - 08/30/04 01:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

My mentor explained to be that the idea of heaven and hell is a accending or decending matter. That heaven is an infinite accending happiness. That you're continuously getting happier and happier. Hell; vice versa. That sounds and feels true what do you think?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069449 - 08/30/04 02:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

There is no such thing as either.

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Offlinespooky123
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3069475 - 08/30/04 02:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Well if you're alive, you're part of a much larger scheme. Agreed? Or is it all you?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069499 - 08/30/04 02:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Heaven and hell are unsubstantiated myths. You are living your heaven or hell now.

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Onlinedeff
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069526 - 08/30/04 02:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

This experience of existence is heaven, only we are distracted from fully realizing it. Hell is a scare tactic behind many cults.


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Offlinespooky123
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069548 - 08/30/04 02:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

This is just a small part of it all. Life that is... We aren't capable of heaven on Earth because we live where demons and angels co-exist. We're in the self discovery-our own paths-choice-options to do what we want. If you're in heaven or hell you no longer have choices. It's one or the other. Impossible for Earth. My personality is so messed from the world. I want to die and go back to the pureness I felt as I child and that I still feel down deep.

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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: deff]
    #3069566 - 08/30/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Stop worrying about an afterlife and worry about now. If you do that the situation takes care of itself. The obsession with an afterlife is an illusion of immortality. Join with the mortals and live.

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Offlinespooky123
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3069584 - 08/30/04 02:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I can't live with the mortals, I'm born again I'm immortal. There's lots of people like you and lots of people like me. I was never like this until I started realizing that it's a really big deal and that it's true. This world has screwed us man. Your mind is so far away right now. All of ours are, this time in history and living in the U.S. has created more people than ever that don't beleive in anyhting. It's not our faults were human, but it's our choice to accept this or not

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Onlinedeff
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069851 - 08/30/04 03:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Belief in experience, belief in the external reality, belief in authority, belief in morality, are all beliefs that a lot these 'non-believers' share. Often times, beliefs act as a filter from the truth, instead of a starting gate. The idea that 'non-believers' are morally unjust comes only from those who believe, and want to assimilate others into their mindset as to validate these illusions.

You may be realizing the falseness of this society, but you have yet to realize the same traits lie within many organized religions.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3069993 - 08/30/04 04:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"This world has screwed us man."

What do you mean? Nobody has screwed me. Your life is what you make of it, and I have made much of mine. The "immortals" will act as if they have all the time in the world then one day it is all gone and you accomplished nothing because you spent too much time worrying about your "immortality".

"All of ours are, this time in history and living in the U.S. has created more people than ever that don't beleive in anyhting"

I have spiritual beliefs that emphasize the immportance of the physical as well as the immaterial because they are all part of the same continuum.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3070017 - 08/30/04 04:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

happiness requires sadness. we are in limbo :wink:

Heaven and Hell in my opinion will only exist here on earth during life - I don't think it has anything to do with the afterlife..... I think it has to do with how you leave your world for your offspring. If you fuck up your world (further), then your offspring will live a little closer towards HELL. If you fix your world, then your offspring (afterlife?) will get to live a little closer to heaven.

We are currently in Hell, but not quite the bottom level yet. Can we fix it for our offspring, who will be still stuck here on Earth after our lives? We've got quite a climb


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Strumpling]
    #3070026 - 08/30/04 04:27 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"We are currently in Hell"

Speak for yourself there.

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Offlinen0xious
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3070126 - 08/30/04 04:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spooky123 said:
My mentor explained to be that the idea of heaven and hell is a accending or decending matter. That heaven is an infinite accending happiness. That you're continuously getting happier and happier. Hell; vice versa. That sounds and feels true what do you think?




Think about what you said, it is illogical to me. Happiness is not measured like most things you cant continuously get better and better without anything getting worse. Also how would you define 'infinite happiess' when happiness is a feeling, nothing materialistic about it.


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Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3070233 - 08/30/04 05:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Some men wisely regard death as a final liberation.


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3070638 - 08/30/04 07:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I guess if you hate living go for it. I am ready for death, but life is good.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3070674 - 08/30/04 07:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Why is it WISE of them to regard death as a liberation?

Thats the thinking that allows for people to become kamakazi pilots and suicide bombers.

I am sincerely looking to understand the wisdom of equating death with liberation. Obviously, if it is wise then I am in the dark on this one.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3070686 - 08/30/04 07:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Why is it WISE of them to regard death as a liberation?

Thats the thinking that allows for people to become kamakazi pilots and suicide bombers.

I am sincerely looking to understand the wisdom of equating death with liberation. Obviously, if it is wise then I am in the dark on this one.




think beyond yourself.
suicide bombers are dying to make a statement to acheive their lives goals, and probly to make their peers lives better.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3070701 - 08/30/04 07:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

For some there is provision after death. There is nothing wrong with this life, it is a lesson.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3070709 - 08/30/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Much of the world believes in provision after death, there are very few suicide bombers. Suicide terror is built on literalist brain washing, and the grievances of living under occupation.


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3070728 - 08/30/04 07:27 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Great reply...I'm 100% on that one.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3070747 - 08/30/04 07:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I'd figured as much that you would conform to such racial and religious generalizations.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: BleaK]
    #3070818 - 08/30/04 07:57 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

So Bleak,

you are saying it is wise to kill other people 'them" by killing yourself in the manor I questioned, so your people "us" have a chance at liberation from "them".

If I have you correctly, I only see wise war strategy of it by your example.

I am looking for the wisdom in Zahids comment that some people find it wise to regard death as a final liberation. This hasn't been answered yet as he says it's not related to war or society divisions.

Zahid,
In your reply, you equated the wisdom of death with reward after death. I see reward and liberation as being two separate things unless the reward is liberation, what is it death liberates one from making it wise to beleive so?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3070826 - 08/30/04 07:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't say 'reward'.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3070909 - 08/30/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, you said provisions. Recieving provisions is not liberation from anything.

I am sincerely looking to understand the wisdom of why some people deem it wise to regard death with liberation.

You see, in my book, the goal is to bring higher vibrations of spirit light into dense matter for greater levels of experiential self realization...........the bigger plan. I realise some people have smaller plans of their own within it.



I still would appreciate an answer to my question to gain in my understanding and also wonder what can be provided for in the after life that can not be provided for here in the physical. Whatever the answers are, thats what I want to work at pulling into this experiential physical reality as well.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3071036 - 08/30/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I'm talking about a final return home. Death is home. What comes after death is where we came from.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071131 - 08/30/04 09:02 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I understand that. They believe it is wise to liberate oneself from the physical life so they can return home. 

Still not sure about the wisdom in that based on my beleifs that home is in my heart right here and now and that I can recreate the essense of it right here and that is my ultimate purpose for being here I beleive.

Wisdom itself is even relative in this case and I will leave it at that.

Peace! :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071186 - 08/30/04 09:10 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Life is sacred. The taking of life is only a last resort. One's own life is sacred as well and one should preserve it where it is practically possible. The idea of committing suicide to exterminate others is a barbaric practice not a sacrifice. It is also not a core belief of ANY mainstream religion. To give one's life to preserve others is a sacrifice of the highest order. To kill oneself in the hopes of taking others with you is a mortal sin before any civilised society.

If you believe this nonsense about "liberation" why are you still not yet liberated?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3071204 - 08/30/04 09:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Good argument. There is wisdom in the preservation of life and the dispensation of mercy. Don't let those who harbor evil intent ever convince you otherwise.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3071208 - 08/30/04 09:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

What does that have to do with anything I said in terms that death is liberation?

You are utterly racist and bigoted, as nothing I have ever said pertains to somehow supporting what Muslim terrorists are doing.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071222 - 08/30/04 09:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Responsibility is as heavy as a mountain, death is as light as a feather."

---edit (twice): kept inversing it X


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


Edited by psyka (08/30/04 09:19 PM)

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3071223 - 08/30/04 09:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I wasn't looking to argue anything. I was looking to understand the wisdom in his comment and i still don't because he never explained why it was wise after asking a few times so I gave up on it.

He left me to understand it as being a wise war strategy and now, a means for going home to those who lost their way into the heart of love.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3071247 - 08/30/04 09:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Death is the return to one's Original Being.

I suppose Hue will try spin that into something political.


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071268 - 08/30/04 09:27 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I am talking to you and Bleak. Both of you seem to have a questionable regard for life. You are pushing death as liberation and Bleak is promoting destructive suicide...no politics involved here I just think both points of view are crazy. Don't twist my words to your purpose. I mentioned no politics...only religion.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3071297 - 08/30/04 09:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Heh, BleaK comes from a different school of thought...

For me death is where I return to God - complete awareness, fullness of being. BleaK is leaning towards unconsciousness and sleep. Suicide is unconsciousness.

I'm not twisting your words, you're the one that started ranting how it's wrong to kill one's self while taking other human beings with you (in reference to Muslim terrorism) - which is fairly obvious, so why mention it. I'm talking about eternal love after death and you're talking about politics.


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071313 - 08/30/04 09:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but do you you want to return to God before it is necessary...that is my point. Our lives DO have value. Too much focus on the afterlife removes this value. Our lives are too precious to wish them away.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3071337 - 08/30/04 09:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

One would have to put quality on this life if they love the Creator.

Statistically, suicides aren't very religious people at that. Suicide is regarded as unconsciousness and benightedness by every spiritual school.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3071591 - 08/30/04 10:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

checking......................................................................OK

at no point did i promote anything.

unless, you consider my offering of my opinion of what their rationalization is, a promotion.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3072132 - 08/31/04 01:19 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Speak for yourself there."

I always speak for myself, dude. Who the fuck else would I be speaking for? Read my sig..

Anyways to further express MY PERSONAL OPINION, you can be totally happy daily but the entire world can be falling apart around you. If that were the case, what would that say about the person who was happy? Either that they were ignorant or that they wished the whole world would fall apart, IMO.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3072194 - 08/31/04 01:46 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
BleaK is leaning towards unconsciousness and sleep. Suicide is unconsciousness.





:thumbdown:


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3072247 - 08/31/04 01:58 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Please explain why you are calling someone racist when you have a cartoon depicting an armed jewish figure with the phrase "born to kill"?

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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: BleaK]
    #3072248 - 08/31/04 01:59 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry.  :confused:


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Zahid]
    #3072262 - 08/31/04 02:02 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

About..?

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: zorbman]
    #3072264 - 08/31/04 02:02 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Please explain why you are calling someone racist when you have a cartoon depicting an armed jewish figure with the phrase "born to kill"?




It depicts 'The Ziombies' - as in Zionist. Zionism is the fanatical wing of Judaism, where the Torah is abused to justify the occupation of Palestinian lands.


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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3072778 - 08/31/04 05:06 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Based on reports of near-death experiences, it seems many people go to hell before going to heaven. With hell, all their bad deeds flash before their eyes, and they stand in judgement of themselves, and then it finally ends once they forgive themselves.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: spooky123]
    #3073546 - 08/31/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

all:
Zahid is right in some way. Of course life is very valuable and everybody should try to bring heaven to earth, but you should not get too fixed upon life, so that it could be a problem to 'leave'.
...and, of course it should not be your choice, when the time has come to leave, if you do the upper said, because in fact, you never will get finished :wink:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: zorbman]
    #3075223 - 08/31/04 06:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Please explain why you are calling someone racist when you have a cartoon depicting an armed jewish figure with the phrase "born to kill"?"

I am glad that I am not the only one who noticed this, He is calling me racist, but that picture is genocidal in it's attitudes. Zionist is not a radical form of Jew...it is any Jewish person, by definition, which makes that image repugnant. Then again, maybe I have an axe to grind for being called racist when I come from a decidedly mixed racial background.

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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3075236 - 08/31/04 06:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

i think its funny that the word race is exclusive to humans.

everything else would be divded into breeds.

i would simply call us the human race.

btw, ppl with brown eyes are better than all others.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3075237 - 08/31/04 06:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Zionism is an ideology and people who oppose it have the right merit to oppose it. Zionism is not Judaism.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: BleaK]
    #3075284 - 08/31/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, race also implies that someone could win out and win the "race".

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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3075337 - 08/31/04 07:06 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

i hadnt thought of it that way...


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Heaven & Hell [Re: n0xious]
    #3075381 - 08/31/04 07:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Think about what you said, it is illogical to me. Happiness is not measured like most things you cant continuously get better and better without anything getting worse. Also how would you define 'infinite happiess' when happiness is a feeling, nothing materialistic about it. "

but you can be happier for longer and longer


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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